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Thread: My balancing for the Support

  1. #31
    Beta Player Sovereign Prince Shadowpuppy's Avatar
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    I know you believe that every casual game is full of [edited by moderator] however that is not the case.

    I land 75 percent of my stuns and its not situational at all. It like you dont know how to use thd stun properly.

    Term, Fernado, Khan, these three can all go from low health to full health in the time thier shield is up and the stun counteds all of them.

    Ash shoulder bash counterd
    Ash ult countered

    How is 100k not enough damage to contribute.

    I save my team mates by healing them and killkng and stuning the people that are attacing them.


    Now that cherish has added range i will probably start using that as the extra range makes. it a worthwhile pick for me..
    Last edited by Borvik; 05-23-2019 at 06:44 PM.

  2. #32
    Member Marquess Averey's Avatar
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    We had this discussion already, and you use examples from casual games as if it justifies anything. I have friends who wrecked everyone as Barik in casual, before the buff on him, so that means Barik is great despite all the evidence to the contrary.

    I looked on many of your casual games before just out of interest, and in many of them you either dont have a tank against you, or flank, or only dps champs etc. Not all, but many games, and its normal for casual for people to take troll compositions unfortunately - and one choosing not to heal your team and go dmg as single support would be part of it, so no wonder people flame at that. Just a word of advice - people report for that too, so you should be careful if you don't want to stack mass reports for feeding, be it justified or not. However, if you are a single support and just go dmg instead of a heal or a hybrid option, it would be very close to trolling if one doesnt try to heal when needed at least. I have played games and won with Exterminate Furia in my team - and its just a terrible situation for a tank, and whole team needs to compensate for an unviable dmg support and that just for dmg which is a little bit higher than a Grover would do on average.

    Ofc I wouldn't know how stun works despite playing her for 87 hours. Get off your high horse and go exterminate in ranked, I wish you all the best there.
    Last edited by Averey; 05-23-2019 at 08:24 AM.
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  3. #33
    Beta Player Sovereign Prince Shadowpuppy's Avatar
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    The person with 87 hours on Furia thinks her stun is situaltioal. lol

    The thing is i do heal my team and i dont think 60 to 70 k healing is being bad support. Especially when i put out 60 to 80k damage fairly constantly as well.

    I have tanks in most games and i kill the flanks when they are thier as well. Im not the one on my competitive high horse.

  4. #34
    Member Marquess Averey's Avatar
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    It is situational, as it easy avoidable on many flanks with mobility. I don't know how much you ever played against a Furia, I did. And her stun is avoidable just by paying attention to her cast animation, which, surprise, is large enough to avoid it. And I am not talking about Fernandos.

    Im not the one starting with the claims others don't know how to play a champ, despite playing her more than you, again btw. And ranked would be a good test for your Exterminate claims, but you never play it.

    Just as info: talked recently to JayFlare about Furia, and Jenos knows he doesn't agree with everything, but what he does agree upon completely is that Exterminate is lacking a lot, and needs improvements. But what does a GM know. Or the people who main supports.
    Last edited by Averey; 05-23-2019 at 09:13 AM.
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  5. #35
    Beta Player Marquess KicsitCsicska's Avatar
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    Furia's low mobility - huge hitbox problem is something, what should be solved. I feel her weaker than the other healers. Her dmg talent also needs a buff, it gives her low dmg bonus what can be even reduced by resillance. For comparison Damba's stun talent gives a constant 500 dmg bonus and also much more often, and it's not even OP.
    Thanks for reading my post!

  6. #36
    Beta Player Sovereign Prince Shadowpuppy's Avatar
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    I am not talking to Jayflair im am talking to you. I am not going to debate hearsay on a conversation i was not part of.

    I did not say you dont know hoe to play furia i stated you dont know how to use the stun, you believe its easy to avoid.

    You are correct the prefire animation does warn people however you can still aim. If you are prepared to lead them. left or right you will hit them pretty easy. It takes practice and game knowlege but if you just aim to the left most people instictivly dodge right when under stress.

    But you can snap during the initiation of the stun.

    Im not advicating exterminate for. competitive, im only stating that the entire community has this believe that anything other than heal bot ia a throw and that is juat wrong.

  7. #37
    Beta Player Sovereign Prince SiderumNocte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pi3rre07
    ing

    - Resonance : ADD : Increase the damage of Shatter 500 --> 700.

    - Brittle : Reduce the CD of Shatter by 0.5s --> 0.55s. (2.5s --> 2.75s).

    Since the nerf of Brittle (0.7s --> 0.5s) Ying disappeared. She joined Pip and Grohk heal which are never play. This slight up should make it come back without being as strong as before.
    Resonance does not need a buff in the damage department.
    It doesn't really need a buff in general.
    The AI for shatter needs tuning, it's whole life cycle it could only be described best as Derpy.

    If EvilMojo is not going revert the nerf to Brittle then they should consider buffing it from 0.5s to 0.6s per level.
    The 0.55s seems mostly worthless, you might as well make 0.6s.

    Ying is played in the PPL though. She isn't constantly picked like she was but she is still a great healer. No longer the best but still pretty damn good.

    Again I hope they put Focusing Lens into her Base Kit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pi3rre07
    Grohk

    - Healing Totem : Decrease CD 15s --> 14s. Increase the radius of 10%.

    Basically the Totem is the only way for Grohk to heal himself and his allies but the Totem is very bad, only 1000 HP, little radius and the CD is too long.

    - Ghost Walk : Become untargetable ang gain 20% --> 25% movement speed for 1s --> 1.2s.

    12s CD for only 1s of invincibility is not very good, sure he can heal himself during the Ghost Walk which is very strong 420 Health for 1s, but Ghost Walk is used as a regenerating ability and not just like a movement ability, its too bad. I prefer that Ghost Walk is used as a movement ability, even at reduce of 50% the heal he receive during Ghost Walk.
    I don't have much to say about Ghost Walk I think it is fine as is.
    There is a loadout that has existed since before Cards Unbound in which you can have your Totem up basically infinitely.
    I labeled such a loadout "Infinite Totems".
    Run Gale essentially + Chronos. My Combo is Gale + Haunting + Chronos.

    Run this combo with Totemic Ward and you'll know just how good of a healer Grohk can be.
    That Long CD on his Totem isn't that bad with this setup.
    I mean I am indifferent as to the CD Reduction.

    Your Grohk changes are pretty much minor that I don't mind either way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pi3rre07
    Pip

    - Combat Medic : ADD : Touch an allie with Healing Potion increase your fire rate of 40% during 2s.

    - Reload : NEW : Reduce Healing Potion CD by {0.6|0.6}s. (NEW Name --> Expert in concoction).

    Change this card would be better because it reduces the CD simply, while the previous card allows you to send 2 Healing Potion at the same time, who, I think is useless with Mega Potion, what is the use of healing 4800 Health in 1s and after need to wait 8s to send another Healing Potion, while now you can heal someone of 2400 every 5s (without Chronos) without worrying about anything.
    I hard disagree on any of these changes.
    If you put the time into Combat Medic honestly it's viable talent that in most situations I would pick over Mega Potion.
    Pip in general is a viable healer.

    You trade damage for more consistent healing using Combat Medic but you can still get decent damage and have great healing.
    Are there drawbacks to Combat Medic? Yes.
    Are the drawbacks that bad? No.
    You can mitigate most of the drawbacks.
    Get creative with talent. It puts in work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pi3rre07
    Jenos

    - Astral Cycle : NEW : Increase the additional heal of Astral Mark by {2%|2%} (220 --> 242). (NEW Name --> Benediction of the stats).

    - Retrograde : Reduce the CD of Astral Mark by 0.5s --> 0.6s.

    Since his up Jenos can reach a good amount of heal, as much as Damba or Seris, but the probleme is he can do this without a talent which increase the heal just like Damba or Seris.
    So he have the talent Luminary which increase the damage of 15% for 3 allies at the same time it is too strong, I saw some match of the PPL and Jenos is generally chose by one of the first 3 pick.
    With this balance Jenos will be able to increase the damage for 2 allies only at the begining of the game, and heal as much as before.

    - Stellar Wind : When Jenos don't move during Stellar Wind the CD begin.

    Avoid to have all the time the third view.
    I think the casters put it best with Jenos.
    "Jenos won't bring you back if you're behind but he can keep you ahead." (To Paraphrase)
    Jenos's healing last at base 10s which is absurd.
    He doesn't need increase healing. At this point he is basically Damage Amp.
    If they were going buff Jenos's healing any further then they would need to nerf his Damage Amp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpuppy
    Im not advicating exterminate for. competitive, im only stating that the entire community has this believe that anything other than heal bot ia a throw and that is juat wrong.
    True. I just got done with a game where I was playing Smoke and Dagger Skye as a second healer and won.
    I had a good comp (mostly) and map for it.
    Grover as main healer, Fernando, Ash, Drogoz on Brightmarsh.

    I've been advocating for "off meta" picks.
    Damage Talents on Supports, etc.
    I would go a little further than you and actually say most talents are viable for Ranked.
    My Skye game was in ranked.
    If you're a good enough player you can make most talents work especially as a support that isn't a heal focused talent.
    Last edited by SiderumNocte; 05-23-2019 at 08:14 PM. Reason: Fixed Grammar issue
    Patch 1.4 Ying Best Healer in the Damn Game.

    Support Skye is a better healer than Jenos.

  8. #38
    Super Moderator Grand Prince Borvik's Avatar
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    Please calm down in this thread if you've been aggressive or have made jabs at other people, or else this thread may be closed.

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  9. #39
    Member Marquess Averey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpuppy View Post
    I am not talking to Jayflair im am talking to you. I am not going to debate hearsay on a conversation i was not part of.

    I did not say you dont know hoe to play furia i stated you dont know how to use the stun, you believe its easy to avoid.

    You are correct the prefire animation does warn people however you can still aim. If you are prepared to lead them. left or right you will hit them pretty easy. It takes practice and game knowlege but if you just aim to the left most people instictivly dodge right when under stress.

    But you can snap during the initiation of the stun.

    Im not advicating exterminate for. competitive, im only stating that the entire community has this believe that anything other than heal bot ia a throw and that is juat wrong.
    I am telling you what other people, legit GMs of the game think, and JayFlare plays ranked at top tier - but again opinion of people who know how to play a game you discard because you win games with Ext in casual against comps with picks without regard for the team.

    The effectiveness of a Legendary is shown in ranked stats. The pickrate of Exterminate is around 7% with negative winrate for many patches. Meta picks exist for a reason, and you can continue to ignore the issues Furia has, which Kicsit named, that doesn't mean they don't exist, despite you claiming other people don't know how to play a character or use abilities despite playing a champ quite more than you.

    A debate like this would be pointless further, though, so in according to Borvik i would stop there.

    Quote Originally Posted by KicsitCsicska View Post
    Furia's low mobility - huge hitbox problem is something, what should be solved. I feel her weaker than the other healers. Her dmg talent also needs a buff, it gives her low dmg bonus what can be even reduced by resillance. For comparison Damba's stun talent gives a constant 500 dmg bonus and also much more often, and it's not even OP.
    Agree with you there, the issue is not only the Legendary being bad, but Furia having big drawbacks on her kit as well (big hitbox, low mobility etc). Doesn't mean it has to stay this way, that is why we are here, to give our feedback after all.
    Last edited by Averey; 05-24-2019 at 01:38 AM.
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  10. #40
    Beta Player Marquess KicsitCsicska's Avatar
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    Her Wings of Wrath based cards are also weak since her talent based on this skill has been removed. I think that if the cd of Wings of Wrath would be reduced from 10s to 8s everything could be better:
    -she could have better mobility, what she deserves based on her huge hitbox and short propel
    -cards based on Wings of Wrath would be worth to use
    -her selfheal wouldn't depend on only one card - Burning Oath - because Fire Siphon would be a viable alternative selfheal card.
    Last edited by KicsitCsicska; 05-24-2019 at 03:22 AM.
    Thanks for reading my post!

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