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Thread: Flankers are the weakest class in the game, buff them!

  1. #51
    Beta Player Esquire
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    Sounds very frustrating to play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    For the sake of completeness, I would like to remind that flankers are not designed to win whatever 1vs1, but the 1vs1 against a squishy, aka an enemy low in HP, with abilities in cooldown that retreats from the fight. So, if the flank is SO DAMN STUPID to face a full HP supports with ability-ready, yes, the flank should die. The skill to play flank is to know when and where to close in, shoot once or twice, then flee after getting the kill.
    I don't believe anyone would want to play a character that is designed to lose most 1v1 against full health characters. Only being able to kill low health, fleeing characters with no cooldowns sound like a very weak character kit. Many flanks can't even accomplish this task with the current burst meta and lack of mobility they possess to properly position themselves. Even if they get the kill, they usually get blown away because they are now low on health and in a vulnerable position, mainly because the half health guy they tried to kill still almost killed them. It's very rare for flanks to actually escape the positions they have to get in to secure their kills. Only a few even have the ability to effectively escape. These are Evie, Talus, Maeve, Buck, Andro. Their death rates reflect this fact. Skye, Moji, Lex, Koga and to a lesser extent Zhin (After last billow nerf) have no way to effectively escape most scenarios after attempting a kill. Their death rates also reflect this inability to avoid dying while attempting to secure a kill. They are basically just lower health damage dealers with limited mobility and people are playing them as such. I just don't think people will want to continue playing these types of characters.

    On a side note, I think the new buffed cardio Viktor, Imani, Cassie, and BK make better flankers than most flanks. Each of them have the ability to move across the map and get into positions faster than most of the flanks. They all do insane bursty damage and don't require the target to be (LOW ON HEALTH). Using the same movement abilities they used to get into position, they can get out after the kill. This is what people want flanks to be (IN, KILL, OUT). This is not what they are getting.
    Last edited by Sikseptik; 05-15-2019 at 11:36 AM. Reason: Additional info

  2. #52
    Beta Player Grand Prince M3RC3N4RI0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    @TangAce: if flankers are monsters at whatever tier EXCEPT for pro tier, the problem is not "let's buff them, for pro tier", but "let's nerf them, for the 98% of the people playing this game" ^^'
    Jayflare said in his newest vid that they told him the highest winrate champs in high ELO are all flanks (which he said is "mindblowing" ). This means that flanks are really only weak at pro-play.

    @Sikseptik
    I checked at bettermeta an indeed it seems that Flanks are relatively unpopular. There is one single flanking star - Zhin - and even his popularity is dropping, then there is Skye, Androxus and (strangely) Evie, who can compete with the popular damage champs. If you take also into account that there are less flanks than damage champs, the more popular class is clearly damage. Tyra, Lian, Cassie, Vivian, Viktor. It seems mobility is not what makes a champ popular but an easy to use hitscan weapon with good range and dps. Pew-pew and brakka-brakka.

  3. #53
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikseptik View Post
    I don't believe anyone would want to play a character that is designed to lose most 1v1 against full health characters. Only being able to kill low health, fleeing characters with no cooldowns sound like a very weak character kit.
    Great, now focus on the actual situation. The average perspective is that flankers should win whatever 1vs1 without a support, no matter what. So, in your opinion, it's very stupid to think supports should lose, no matter what. And yet, when you speak of supports, every new player finds that perfectly ok.
    Welcome to this game.
    No matter what, if you go straight in the face of a full HP champ, you should lose. Because this game is about strategy and not over burst. Or at least, that was the general idea before the noobification process took place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sikseptik View Post
    Many flanks can't even accomplish this task with the current burst meta and lack of mobility they possess to properly position themselves.
    Then let's fix this thing bringing back flankers' (some of them, because some already have it) mobility. Still, their job is to secure kills and flee away. They can also self-shield or make themselves untargettable, that's how you escape.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sikseptik View Post
    It's very rare for flanks to actually escape the positions they have to get in to secure their kills. Only a few even have the ability to effectively escape. These are Evie, Talus, Maeve, Buck, Andro.
    You've forgotten Zhin and Koga. So, as a matter of fact, only Skye, Lex and Moji are out of the bunch. The 3 of them are, you'd never said, damagers, more than flankers, and that's why people have asked to rework their kit. And in case you were worried, Lex and Skye can easily kill everyone before giving them time to react. Or sniping from behind a Nando's shield.
    Again, it's a matter of positioning. If the flanker player is stupid, it's not that we must balance the game according to his scarce smartness.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3RC3NA4RI0 View Post
    This means that flanks are really only weak at pro-play.
    In full honesty, I had not doubt about that. Flankers are damn OP and easy to use, nowadays. But every time you say that, someone will come and cry for their UPness...
    We all know those in shitty positions are supports and, to a lesser extend, tanks.

    In general: it seems to many many of those complaining that flankers are UP are considering the game only on a flank/DD situation. There are also 2 others classes, extremely UP against the aforementioned 2. DDs are the natural counters of flanks and vice versa. Going straight in their face when full hp means death. It's normal, it's how the game has been conceived. The fact that many times this is not happening is a sign something is wrong. Keep that in mind.
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  4. #54
    Beta Player Knight driggydrug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M3RC3N4RI0 View Post
    Jayflare said in his newest vid that they told him the highest winrate champs in high ELO are all flanks (which he said is "mindblowing" ). This means that flanks are really only weak at pro-play.

    @Sikseptik
    I checked at bettermeta an indeed it seems that Flanks are relatively unpopular. There is one single flanking star - Zhin - and even his popularity is dropping, then there is Skye, Androxus and (strangely) Evie, who can compete with the popular damage champs. If you take also into account that there are less flanks than damage champs, the more popular class is clearly damage. Tyra, Lian, Cassie, Vivian, Viktor. It seems mobility is not what makes a champ popular but an easy to use hitscan weapon with good range and dps. Pew-pew and brakka-brakka.
    Flankers are popular because they are mostly played as damage dealers/ bursty spammers
    Evie and meave are probably the "real flankers" in this game.
    But koga, moji, skye and talus aren't actually flankers, winrate/pickrate/banrate etc etc doesnt mean ANYTHING.
    They are bursty spammers , mostly played as damage dealers.
    Flankers are frustrating to play against because of their burst (it is very easy to abuse, unfun to deal with and braindead ), but if they try to act as "flankers" they will die for sure , their mobility isn't enough , no matter how much burst they have. It's the same thing of eminence spam lian, big game cassie, imani ... they are cancer because of their burst (that is a but too much even for a damager imo)
    A real flanker shouldn't be able to sit in backline and spam easy OP burst like a damage dealer.
    Their mobility must be higher and their burst harder to hit/confirm... basically high risk high reward, like they were 2 y ago.
    Remember old evie? She had 1200 burst but her projectiles were 100 times slower... her blink had much more distance and soar was faster.

  5. #55
    Beta Player Knight driggydrug's Avatar
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    Everyone complaining about flankers here... I agree with you, their burst is too much , braindead and easy to abuse.
    But can we even consider them "flankers" ?
    You lose an 1v1 as a support ( not necessary an healbot bur even a decent one like grover) because a koga spammed his OP claws from 1km distance.
    (Do you want another example?? Yomi zhin and his huge hirboxes, talus overcharge, skye delibitate, moji braindead 1000 burst, lex spamming and hitting 6 shots on 12).
    Isn't it the same thing of dying from a damage dealer like bombking, imani, lian, cassie, viktor??
    Fighting a fake flanker like skye is the same thing of fighting a damage dealer, and if you are a support you're going to be the one that suffers more because ur mobility is bad and your HP is trash.
    The current burst meta ruined flankers, they can't survive without their mobility...
    1) buff flanker's mobility
    2) nerf their burst/ttk
    3) make them harder to play

  6. #56
    Beta Player Grand Prince M3RC3N4RI0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    In general: it seems to many many of those complaining that flankers are UP are considering the game only on a flank/DD situation.
    This correspondents with my experience. There is four DDs I could pick in a match I want to win atm, Drogoz, Dredge, Vivian and Tyra and maybe Cassie or Lian. Drogoz and Dredge I experience as really strong. Drogoz is such a monster, he can fly, kill champs with a single attack, destroy shields, reload his HP with spit explosions. Or take BK which I cannot play. Those are like bags full of tricks. The only flank I can play effectively atm is Skye.

    In a direct duel the flank is mostly stronger but a DD can kill tanks what a flank (except Skye) cannot.

  7. #57
    Beta Player Knight driggydrug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M3RC3N4RI0 View Post
    This correspondents with my experience. There is four DDs I could pick in a match I want to win atm, Drogoz, Dredge, Vivian and Tyra and maybe Cassie or Lian. Drogoz and Dredge I experience as really strong. Drogoz is such a monster, he can fly, kill champs with a single attack, destroy shields, reload his HP with spit explosions. Or take BK which I cannot play. Those are like bags full of tricks. The only flank I can play effectively atm is Skye.

    In a direct duel the flank is mostly stronger but a DD can kill tanks what a flank (except Skye) cannot.
    Mi dispiace, your wrong.
    Cassie, imani and lian are MUST BAN! you pick them , you win
    You can't compare them to drogoz, bk, vivian or dredge.
    Drogoz is situational, great only if the enemy team hasn't got powerful hitscans and snipers (or even shalin).
    Bombking is rly strong, I agree.
    Vivian and dredge can deal a lot of damage but they're very easy to kill, they are both spammy turrets.
    Skye is not a great flank... as you said she can melt tanks like a damage dealer but she doesn't perform in her main role, the flank one.
    She is slow and stealth is useless if you buy illuminate.

  8. #58
    Beta Player Marquess Shadowpuppy's Avatar
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    Maeve , Andro , Evie are the only flanks left in the game at the moment.

    Maeve has crappy burst but can play at distance making her the most dynamic flank as she can do allot of diferent things

    Andro is burst daddy but you can only play him with godslayer reversal dash reset or your dead as shit all the time.

    Evie is balanced. She has high mobility and can kill but it takes allot off effort to hit her shots and you can find your self losing a 1v1 pretty quickly from just missing one shot. Snow Globe is amazing
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  9. #59
    Beta Player Grand Prince M3RC3N4RI0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by driggydrug View Post
    Mi dispiace, your wrong.
    Cassie, imani and lian are MUST BAN! you pick them , you win
    You can't compare them to drogoz, bk, vivian or dredge.
    This is "contra fact-ish" though, how we say in German. From Bronze to Diamond Drogoz has a much higher winrate than those three you named.

  10. #60
    Beta Player Knight driggydrug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M3RC3N4RI0 View Post
    This is "contra fact-ish" though, how we say in German. From Bronze to Diamond Drogoz has a much higher winrate than those three you named.
    Winrate doesn't mean anything.
    I'm diam 4 and I've never seen a first pick drogoz unless snipers and powerful hitscans are banned. Only good drogos can do well in match, he is powerful in the right hands.

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