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Thread: Kinessa, The Underloved

  1. #21
    Beta Player Marquess TangAce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAMFROSTIEE View Post
    i have nearly 800 hrs of paladins sniper experience, from a total of 2500 hrs on all my smurf accounts.
    This is not happening since i am not a bronze,My elo is probably low coz i only pick snipers even in non sniper maps
    I have an average of 56% winrate on kinessa which place me above 90% based on better meta
    https://www.thebettermeta.com/charts...rate_by_skill/
    and from the same data site kinessa barely crossed strix by 1.1% effective winrate after 96 percentile .these are average numbers so dont point me towards a pro and look at their winrate coz they are playing games for almost decades.


    The above tells me i have the IDEA to play nessa
    I think you don't understand this chart, the wonderful graph is the opposite of what you think
    it doesn't give a player percentile based on his winrate (cause anyway when you think about it you understand how such system is abusable) but the effective winrate of players in this percentile (seriously this is explained by pseucrose just under the graph like any other graph actually)
    so if you look in the top 5% you can see that kinessa has a better effective winrate than strix, but strix has a better winrate in lower percentile, to put it simply, the top 5% kinessa are better than top 5% strix
    And 1.1% is huge difference, also if you don't believe what I say here is an other graph you should have used to compare both snipers
    https://www.thebettermeta.com/charts...ting_overview/
    this is easily explainable since kinessa is more difficult to play, but top players will do better with nessa than strix for the reasons I have explained earlier

    now I'll assume that this is your player name since it has 4000+ matches, mostly are casual, and most are with snipers, top 5.20% overall in casual, and I wont take into account the ranked cause you seem not to play it much
    your kinessa is at 4.85%, your strix at 25.85%

    I don't play strix much and I even if I like to play nessa I don't play her much either (still more than strix) in casual I am around top 9% with both, and I mostly play ranked
    however I played kinessa mostly on my smurf, which is in top 0.94% kinessa in casual
    I am not even comparing our ratings in ranked since it is pointless
    not to mention I am around 4% in both casual and ranked overalls
    then maybe what I checked isn't your account, tho I am almost sure it is, still I think I know what I am talking about and I also know most better players than me will agree that kinessa is better than strix in the high percentile
    also I have more matches than you overall, and I know how to read a graph and stats
    and I won't even take into account that you are playing on SEA while I am in EU and that it does make a huge difference since there are way more players in EU (and such more top percentile players and so higher chances of playing with and against them for exemple)

    and I will stop there it's long enough even if I could say way more
    so yes nessa needs a slight buff, but she'll always be better than strix simply cause her design provides mobility

    to conclude the above means you may not be as good nessa as you think (or sniper actually) so stop embarrassing yourself and start by reading graph explanations, then you can try to read them, and then maybe you can start using them once you understand why graphs are like this (for exemple you should also take playerbase into account, stuff like that, strix is way more played than nessa, which has an impact on the graphs, that's also why you should use different graphs to compare champions, oh and by the way if i'm right the graphs are based on ranked and not casual,at least the one you used i am sure it's based on ranked)

  2. #22
    Beta Player Baron FarceDawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    I think you don't understand this chart, the wonderful graph is the opposite of what you think
    it doesn't give a player percentile based on his winrate (cause anyway when you think about it you understand how such system is abusable) but the effective winrate of players in this percentile (seriously this is explained by pseucrose just under the graph like any other graph actually)
    so if you look in the top 5% you can see that kinessa has a better effective winrate than strix, but strix has a better winrate in lower percentile, to put it simply, the top 5% kinessa are better than top 5% strix
    And 1.1% is huge difference, also if you don't believe what I say here is an other graph you should have used to compare both snipers
    https://www.thebettermeta.com/charts...ting_overview/
    this is easily explainable since kinessa is more difficult to play, but top players will do better with nessa than strix for the reasons I have explained earlier

    now I'll assume that this is your player name since it has 4000+ matches, mostly are casual, and most are with snipers, top 5.20% overall in casual, and I wont take into account the ranked cause you seem not to play it much
    your kinessa is at 4.85%, your strix at 25.85%

    I don't play strix much and I even if I like to play nessa I don't play her much either (still more than strix) in casual I am around top 9% with both, and I mostly play ranked
    however I played kinessa mostly on my smurf, which is in top 0.94% kinessa in casual
    I am not even comparing our ratings in ranked since it is pointless
    not to mention I am around 4% in both casual and ranked overalls
    then maybe what I checked isn't your account, tho I am almost sure it is, still I think I know what I am talking about and I also know most better players than me will agree that kinessa is better than strix in the high percentile
    also I have more matches than you overall, and I know how to read a graph and stats
    and I won't even take into account that you are playing on SEA while I am in EU and that it does make a huge difference since there are way more players in EU (and such more top percentile players and so higher chances of playing with and against them for exemple)

    and I will stop there it's long enough even if I could say way more
    so yes nessa needs a slight buff, but she'll always be better than strix simply cause her design provides mobility

    to conclude the above means you may not be as good nessa as you think (or sniper actually) so stop embarrassing yourself and start by reading graph explanations, then you can try to read them, and then maybe you can start using them once you understand why graphs are like this (for exemple you should also take playerbase into account, stuff like that, strix is way more played than nessa, which has an impact on the graphs, that's also why you should use different graphs to compare champions, oh and by the way if i'm right the graphs are based on ranked and not casual,at least the one you used i am sure it's based on ranked)
    Man before going into a lengthy discussion I got to tell you Kinessa isn't better than Strix. I support that Kinessa needs a slight buff but she isn't better than Strix. Like frostiee I have talked with Jay about her and the balancing done in this game. Currently people seem to support balancing around the top players in the game while taking into account the medium-tier players as a way not to baby lower-tier players. in other words the pros do matter in balancing. Strix has always had a more viable kit than Kinessa just depends on how you play him. He can get dmg reduction in his cards while scoped, a burst of movespeed when invis and resets on his escape based on his kills. He also has a faster burst than Kinessa with both flare and his quickscoping rifle. Don't forget strix can survive close range Kinessa can't.

    In a recent ppl match Bugsy the man with around 80-90% winrate as Kinessa got hammered in the ppl when he decided to play as her. He nailed headshots consistently almost never died and pressure the enemy team hard. They even gave him the last pick so that they couldn't easily counter him. Despite this by the 3rd round the enemy team realized the only thing they needed to do to win was dive the hell out of their Kinessa. When the tanks and others started diving Bugsy he still nailed many of his shots but got bursted or forced to retreat after they got close. Even when his team tried to support him they couldn't deal with the enemy team dmg output and speed consistently enough. By the end of the match Bugsy had the highest dmg score on his team and probably the greatest accuracy but little to no help during close range fights due to the pressure on him and his mines didn't do squat cause he had enemies who understood Kinessa's strengths and weaknesses.

    The moment haven is hard rushed and the enemy team understand how to deal with her even with her high-skill playstyle Kinessa still has many problems compared to other dmg dealers.

    Whenever they eventually decide to balance out the dmg dealers and tanks as well as a few others maybe she'll be better but she definitely needs something. Currently a good point tank can pretty much deny a ton of Kinessa's dmg on point unless you basically have high enough level of caut and another burn card
    Last edited by FarceDawn; 05-13-2019 at 06:56 PM.
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  3. #23
    Beta Player Baronet
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post

    and you probably have no idea how to play nessa and you underestimate reposition
    not to mention that nessa makes better use of highgrounds, which gives better position compared to strix
    This guys talks a lot, i just saw the thread he made last long time ago and i was like man.He's so serious and stopped my discussion right there.
    He simply assume my play as kinessa with my stats. Those are a reason coz i run kinessa in non sniper supportive maps and against heavy combo's even in ranked.I dont wanna mention mention abt myself anymore,he ill just simply do a complete autopsy on my profile and faultily create pseudo reports abt me.
    and btw the first one who attacked was him - Reposition 0()0
    I play Only Skill champs even if I Suck

  4. #24
    Beta Player Grand Prince M3RC3N4RI0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAMFROSTIEE View Post
    This is not happening since i am not a bronze,My elo is probably low coz i only pick snipers even in non sniper maps I have an average of 56% winrate on kinessa which place me above 90% based on better meta
    The 90% at better meta is your ELO not your winrate. A Silver player who has a winrate of 50% is not as good as a Diamond player with 50% winrate (because the Diamond player usually plays vs other Diamond players) therefor the ELO. The ELO is similar to your Rank so better than 90% means a player higher than Platin III (or so).

    Player on high ranks tend to know on which maps Kinessa is effective therefor they have a higher winrate with her (and better aim etc. of course).

  5. #25
    Beta Player Baronet
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    Have seen so many masters who plays like complete noobs,
    Have seen my no game sens friends rise to diamond 1,masters,plat 1 only playing skye,tanks,sups.
    Have seen countless gold,silver players play better despite of where their current rank lies
    Have seen masters who only plays meta in order to win not to master a particular champ.

    If you are so much strong about kinessa, just take a challenge play only kinessa in ranked in medium to long range maps dont mind the counter pick,i means except brightmarsh,jaguar,ice mines.Get the game going for atleast 200 games.Reply me after

    Why am i talking about myself!pointless f s.Thanks for your comment !
    Last edited by IAMFROSTIEE; 05-17-2019 at 09:11 AM.
    I play Only Skill champs even if I Suck

  6. #26
    Beta Player Baron FarceDawn's Avatar
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    first off calm down everyone and stop bringing rank into the conversation its fine to talk about it in general when it comes to balance suggestions but not when it comes to people. Skill is hard to determine especially in Paladins where you can buy levels and have high skill but a lower than expected win rate due to matchmaking. Don't demean another person's opinion cause you don't agree with them or can't give them a valid enough argument, or for whatever reason period. Frostiee just like you is stating his opinion all your doing is trying to be petty and bring rank into this conversation.
    Ign: FarceDawn
    Mains: Kinessa (almost 200 hours), Strix, Maeve, Evie, Ash, Ying, and Pip.
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  7. #27
    Super Moderator Grand Prince Borvik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarceDawn View Post
    first off calm down everyone and stop bringing rank into the conversation its fine to talk about it in general when it comes to balance suggestions but not when it comes to people. Skill is hard to determine especially in Paladins where you can buy levels and have high skill but a lower than expected win rate due to matchmaking. Don't demean another person's opinion cause you don't agree with them or can't give them a valid enough argument, or for whatever reason period. Frostiee just like you is stating his opinion all your doing is trying to be petty and bring rank into this conversation.
    As FarceDawn said. If you've been aggressive in this thread, please calm down.
    *Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios.*

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  8. #28
    Beta Player Baronet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borvik View Post
    As FarceDawn said. If you've been aggressive in this thread, please calm down.
    Thanks farce dawn and borvik!
    Kinessa The Real Underloved
    Last edited by IAMFROSTIEE; 05-20-2019 at 03:15 AM.
    I play Only Skill champs even if I Suck

  9. #29
    Beta Player Baron FarceDawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAMFROSTIEE View Post
    Thanks farce dawn and borvik!
    Kinessa The Real Underloved
    I like how people talk about Kinessa being fine but her data is taken from the few players who play her and that means that value's should weigh a lot more than other champs even Moji who despite having a lowest play rate still has a higher win rate on her talents (except snack attack). The hate for snipers is understandable but the skill required to play them isn't rewarded correctly enough. Even their builds tend to have the most unuseful cards
    Last edited by FarceDawn; 05-20-2019 at 06:37 PM.
    Ign: FarceDawn
    Mains: Kinessa (almost 200 hours), Strix, Maeve, Evie, Ash, Ying, and Pip.
    Come and play a match with me if you have time I enjoy nice non-toxic games and love making strategies with teammates when doing comp.

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    Lan the Cheery Brawler

    Louie the Lion-Hearted

    Note: I have no restrictions or problems with anyone especially Evil Mojo using any part of my champion concepts free of charge when creating new characters,skins, or ideas.

  10. #30
    Beta Player Baronet
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    Kami Just said the points what i am trying to prove in this forum. For strix the zoom nerf is kinda a buff. Which allow him to hit head shots and long range and quickscope and close range.But for Kinessa its not good. The community is talking about the andro animation lockout bug recently,incase if it was an intended nerf to stop andro from dash flicking combi,will the community accepts it?.
    What happened to kinessa zoom is the same thing,They changed how the champion feels to play for a player which is kinda bad balancing in my opinion
    I play Only Skill champs even if I Suck

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