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Thread: I've noticed there's no melee damage characters - so here's one

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    I've noticed there's no melee damage characters - so here's one

    Kaylee: Damage - melee

    Right Trigger: twin hooked swords - rapid strikes.

    Left Trigger: long range Grapple: pulls target to you, slow effect applied 1.5s. 3-5s cooldown (can be used to move quickly around the map - in a game full of ranged characters, this is not unreasonable for a low hp character - if not used on a target, CD is reduced to 2s) - only usable at long range

    RB: Body Fling: throws herself at the target, knocking them down, executes target at< or = 20% health. Drives knife/dagger into target for killing blow. Heals her for 20% of damage done, over-healing applies shield. (5-10 cd)
    Reduces CD if target is killed. Melee-short range ability
    similar to Meave's Pounce, but instead of bouncing off the target and keep going, Kaylee knocks the target down before executing or attacking at melee range


    LB: Concussive Blow: strike the target with a barbed bat, knocked down and slows target 2-3s. Low damage. (Negan TWD inspired)

    Y: Dancing: Enter a frenzied state, ignoring incoming damage (80%reduced incoming damage); jumps from target to target rapidly filling each full of holes: initial attack causes medium damage as well as the first tick of bleed damage, bleed for 25% health every second for 6s or until fully healed - of course it would only take 4 seconds to kill you (accounts for self preservation measures), this ensure enemy healer is working overtime, and the enemy team is now trying to self heal asap - if targets are not healed to full health, they will die after 6 seconds from blood loss).



    Background:
    Her father wanted to make sure she’d never be a victim, so at a young age, he signed her up for specialized combat training of anything that interested her; her mother on the other hand, wanted elegance and dignity for her little girl which took the form of Formal Dance. Due to her unique training in both dance and combat, the Magistrate wanted her, but her parents, upon learning of this, sent her to the Paladins.
    After her parents were executed by the Magistrate this Formal Dancer turned Street fighter; willing to use anything within reach. Decent person with a bad temper and a short fuse.
    Age 23
    Last edited by GhostlyTitan339; 04-12-2019 at 01:25 AM.

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    Beta Player Baron Dovahkat963's Avatar
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    Title: There are no melee damage characters.

    Terminus, Makoa during Ancient Rage, Androxus's punch: "Am I a joke to you?"


    In all seriousness though, this is a good framework. But there are some problems and some things that need to be added:

    - HP. It's very important to know exactly how much HP a champ has to work with.
    - You never specified any specific damage numbers, so there is no way to know exactly how strong any part of this idea is.
    - Giving an exact attack speed for the primary attack is necessary, as that determines the dps of the champion. You only need to provide the time between attacks, like say, .6 seconds for example (you don't need to use that number, just an example. Use whatever feels right to you.)
    - You didn't provide any talents. Talents define a champions playstyles, and are as important to a concept as the abilities themselves.


    As for the abilities themselves...
    - Can't really judge the primary attack without any numbers.
    - The grapple, slightly confusing description. You say it pulls a target to you then slows them, then as a side note say it can be used to move around the map. So if you hit an enemy you pull them, otherwise you pull yourself to the target? I'd say invert the enemy pull so that you pull yourself to them. Makes the functionality consistent and fits better with the theme of the kit. We don't need another Makoa hook anyway. Regardless of what you do here however that cooldown has to be increased a bit. 3-5s? Even at 5 seconds that would be WAY too short for that kind of mobility.
    - Body Fling... an execute as part of the base ability? No. Just no. Make it deal good damage along with the self heal, that part is fine. But the execute? Even at a 20% threshold its a big screw you to frontlines. Maybe as a talent but definitely not the base ability.
    - Concussive Blow, no real complaints. Just needs an actual damage number for perspective. You also forgot the cooldown on it.
    - The Ultimate... oh boy. The way it is described is effectively "Press button to Pentakill". It sounds like autotargeting, little to no windup, plus a damaging strike that slaps a "You are already dead" bleed on its victims. I don't think any healer beyond Furia's healing pyre or Grover/Ying ult could counter that kind of damage. The bleed that deals 150% hp total in damage is bad enough but you also state the initial strike deals damage as well so fate is sealed even more. This needs either a total rework or heavily nerfed damage as well as some restrictions on how much it can do.


    That's everything I have to say about this. You effectively have a shell that could be something cool if you fill in the blanks. I see that you are pretty new here so thats why I loaded so much advice in there.
    I don't normally rage about how I died, but when I do...

    Its when freaking Andro catches my ankle as I escape around a corner from like 100 feet away!!!

    My Champion Concepts

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    Super Moderator Sovereign Prince cmsaunli's Avatar
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    I'm liking the start of it.

    I agree with the grapple being consistent, it could also be extremely OP by pulling an enemy healer out the backline with little to no effort. Will it be hitscan? Will it have an effective distance? You say long range, but long range is pretty ridiculous if you mean half a map.

    The ult is utterly broken and would never fit, especially since it's basically a one button, no skill, kill everything sorta deal. The thing about ultimates is yes, they're potentially game changing, but not game ending. You need a clear announcement, wind up, and a means of escape. If that ultimate ever happened in Paladins, I'd quit gaming forever.
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    Beta Player Marquess TangAce's Avatar
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    this looks so bad seriously, also some people already wrote stuff about melee champ
    melee champ are actually quite hard to make or balance
    other thing is paladins isn't going in a way of super mobility as it was long ago, as much as i'd like to see a melee champ with high mobility (i'd say a grapling hook would be really cool to move around the map with, and something making you tp in the back of an enemy)
    but in the end it's quite difficult to do in term of balance, on a side note every character should have one way or an other to deal some poking at distance

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    primary complaints seem to be about damage numbers, cooldowns and the ult.
    the Ult would take as much "skill" as most champions ults... survive long enough to use it, and hope you don't die during it, then watch people die.
    Skye, Bomb King, Dredge, Drogoz, Evie, Jenos, etc, can all 1 shot entire teams provided the are grouped up. Or at least those not behind a shield.
    Champions who have Ults that require less skill than what i'm suggsting withe this character:
    Skye, Meave-reduce visibility, Seris, Vivian, Torvald. etc. Kaylee's ult is only usable if she can survive long enough to get into melee range. Its designed to take down groups, much like Skyes, Dredge etc. many of the Ults with instant damage, cannot be healed this... for a time, this one can. if champions can reach 100%, the debuff is dropped, thus, the healer and those with sufficient self healing (buck, skye, atlas, Khan etc) could survive it. this ult is very easy to counter when you think about it. (this topic is continued further down!) this ult is easily countered, though cauterize would a nightmare! a little self healing and a top up from the healer... this ult would be rendered moot (unless she has cauterize).

    there are no damage characters who are dedicated melee in this game (Makoa ulting, terminus are both tanks).
    The goal of designing this character, was to make a melee character who doesn't have tank level HP, able to compete and stay alive in a game filled with range combat (thought i made this clear in the original post).
    I realized during this process that damage and speed would have to be "balanced" for the game, so i decided to refrain from clarifying how much damage each ability did, in case this were to be used ingame, and i don't know how they scale damage etc, i figured my projections wouldn't hold much water anyway, so i gave a ballground of what these abilities do, or can do. it would be up to those who control the balancing, to determine what is best for the game.

    it was implied in "rapid strike" that the damage from primary attack, is a bit low, thus would hit fast.
    damage numbers and general speed of strikes, is a moot point, as any numbers would be change to compensation for in-game balance. thus i gave general outline for what these abilities are capable of... though i now realize that i did not give a cooldown for Concussive Blow, would likely be 10-15 seconds.

    To clarify, Kaylee's ultimate would require you to survive long enough to get into someones face before they kill you (every damage character does ranged based damage, and would thus be shooting at her as she runs to them (thus the grapple - handheld).
    I've reconsidered how the Ultimate would work: as it is called "Dancing" i've realized there's not any "dancing" in a traditional sense, in the ability. Thus: i will edit the post, but for the sake of this reply:
    this ult is one that can only be used when your in melee range (which would be quite difficult to survive), she would then jump onto the target, while attack in a circular area (similar to Koga), which would leave the bleed damage that would kill its victims if left untended.

    Grapple: i've also been reconsidering, as it didn't make much sense. how could a young lady pull Makoa to her? she couldn't... the primary purpose of this ability, is to cause a team to loss their tank or healer, and be left vulnerable. As it is her nature to use anything she can get her hands on... (i mean, she uses swords, yet also has a knife, bat and a gapple.
    This Grapple, could be used in 2 ways... one: deployable: able to pull any target to her, which a cooldown per use. Second: held in her hand, using it to pull her to a destination. Think of it as a turret that activates 1 time when you tell it to before going on a short CD. (think of Koga, and Imani; they are able to switch between modes, perhaps mouse or trigger click can determine which version of the grapple you use.

    Will now modify my original post.

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    Super Moderator Sovereign Prince cmsaunli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyTitan339 View Post
    primary complaints seem to be about damage numbers, cooldowns and the ult.
    the Ult would take as much "skill" as most champions ults... survive long enough to use it, and hope you don't die during it, then watch people die.
    Skye, Bomb King, Dredge, Drogoz, Evie, Jenos, etc, can all 1 shot entire teams provided the are grouped up. Or at least those not behind a shield.
    .
    You've got to realise that their ults are all clear, concise, have a reasonable reaction time and warmup, and are easily dodgeable if you're paying attention. What you seem to be proposing is that if you get close to the enemy team, you pretty much instantly wipe out the enemy team, they have 0 chance to escape at all, no reasonable duration to move out of the way, and an absolutely broken mechanic of health drain.


    Do you realise how much health 25% is? For Inara for example, that's 1175 health a second. for SIX seconds. That's absolutely insane. At the best of times, people despise % damage in any means, and with it how it stands in this ult, it's completely broken.



    I'm pretty sure Grover was initially brought into the game with abilities and attacks pretty close to this, but was removed for being too strong, or not good enough for big maps. There's a reason why melee isn't that good in FPS game, from the old adage: Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

    Terminus bridges the gap nicely, and I feel like a Frontline is only capable of pulling it off so well.

    If you want to make a champ work, you'd have to seriously balance it in your own mind first. I've seen many outstandingly balanced concepts, they don't just rely on 'those who control the balancing'.
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    the revamp i lost accounted for the issues regarding the Ultimate... though somehow i got logged out, and lost everything.
    I will clarify the Ultimate changes here:
    she jumps on the target (knocked them down) slashes at them and all those in a small area, the attack is at their throats, a damage negating ability (like billow) would prevent taking damage. the strike is at the Crated-artery; so the # of HP you have, much like Meaves Pounes, would be rendered moot... your losing blood, your not taking physical damage, once you've lost all your blood, thats it. if you can reach 100% health through self or external healing, your golden. would be very easy to negate her ultimate, no different from Koga for example, except she won't be moving around and she's only strikes once.
    Body Fling and Grapple would be the only things keeping her alive, body fling heals, and grapples gets her out of danger (which is why the low CDs). the mere fact there are no melee champions outside of frontliners, is specifically why i wanted to make one.

    revamped Grapple to have 2 settings, hitting RT or LT after activating Grapple, will either launch her to a location, or deploy a pole (think of it like Barik and his turret) enabling her to pull targets to her.
    Last edited by GhostlyTitan339; 04-13-2019 at 08:23 PM.

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    Beta Player Marquess TangAce's Avatar
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    you clearly don't have enough experience, there is still no numbers whatsoever for exemple, when you are presenting a champs idea it should be all clear, numbers, you clearly haven't thought about anything, balance, mechanics, numbers, matchups, usefulness and so on
    this is clearly going nowhere and isn't really constructive, i suggest you try to put it on paper or something so it's clear for you, then think about what could be wrong, op, up and so on
    once again, melee chars in fps...not easy to do, not impossible but i'm pretty sure the devs already tried to make such champ
    think also about what comunity likes and wants, for exemple no one would like to see an other champ with autoaim

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