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Thread: Rework for double-weapon champs [Koga and Imani]

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    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    Rework for double-weapon champs [Koga and Imani]

    So, this is in general balance because Koga is a flank and Imani a DD, but I am speaking about both because they share the same mechanic: the "main fire switch".
    The basic idea for this suggestion: they have 2 weapons, this leads to the possibility of a hybrid game style, different from those of everyone else in this game. And yet, they talents and cards are just focused on a single-weapon use, forgetting duality.
    I think that HiRez wanted us to use them while switching continuously from weapon A to B, but they failed for the switching thing is a mess. For example, at release, Koga’s claws were miserable and the only useful option was to use machine guns. So they nerfed guns, hoping for people to start using claws. But claws were still bad and Koga “died” for some time. Then they ultra-buffed claws, with the result that now claws are broken and no one uses guns. Except for Geste. But that’s another story, he does it just to piss me off, so, don’t count him on statistics u.u

    You need those 5 years to switch from weapon A to weapon B, and in the meanwhile you are probably dead. That’s why people are not using this play style.

    Swift Hands allow Koga to reduce the time to switch weapon by 10% per tier (max 50%) [from machine gun to claws 0,425 sec, vice versa 0,85 sec without card]
    Affinity reduce the cooldown of Imani’s switch by 1 sec per tier (max 5 sec) on a 10 sec cd ability.

    I’ve only seen one Koga following this double weapon play style. He has 5 tiers in Swift Hands and he was a monster. I’d like to remember his nick just to ask him some info, but I can’t find the game.
    However, my point is: a “normal” player, approaching these 2 champs, has no reason to waste 5 points in the loadout just to try the hybrid style and by the time they become more experienced, they are probably too “fond” of the acquired play style for deciding to change.

    I’d say, let’s put tier 3 of Swift Hands (30% time reduction) in his base kit and leave the other 20% as 4% per tier as a separate card. Or give him directly Swift Hands tier 5 in base kit.
    Put tier 5 Affinity in Imani’s base kit and add another card in substitution. Or you can change one of her talents into this.

    Oooooh, it’s OP!!!
    I haven’t said that dmg and so on would be untouched. I am focusing on allowing a more variable play style, then we can lower dps accordingly to compensate, so, calm down.

    KOGA
    He has a talent for machine gun. A talent for claws. And a talent bugged (!). Instead, there’s nothing there to suggest a hybrid play style.
    New Adrenaline Junkie: dealing dmg restores energy. No matter if the dms is done with crawls or guns.
    New Dragon Fangs: switching weapon is instantaneous AND dragon stance consume health (as now).
    Blood Reaper: please, remove that… The new version is really… awful. Instead, about the other one, the one about Skewer, it could have been like… “using Skewer doesn’t consume all your energy, but gives back to you one energy-bar”. So that people would not use it as suicidal mission.

    IMANI
    Mana Rift: you can change this into Affinity tier 5, or give her an extra cooldown reduction on RMB abilities every time she switches.
    I’d rework frost and fire talents as something more general, good for every play styles. Something like, don’t know, 1) your Frostfire Glide travels faster/longer/heals you (without wasting points on loadouts), 2) while ulting, you (not Fuffy) are surrounded by a 500HP shield/gain 50% dmg reduction, 3) Fuffy gains improved mobility… things that don’t depend on fire or ice, because you are suppose to keep changing element for the whole game.

    So, no numbers, just a general idea. I’d like to hear your opinions on this. I, for sure, find boring not to switch.
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    Beta Player Archduke GeSteYiam's Avatar
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    Strix is crying in the corner cause you didt credit him for being the first stance swicher

    P. S. Adrenaline junkie is fun, clawga is for boosted masters

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    Imani is pretty good as a character without that mana charge feature.
    That mana gain stuff is dumb asf. Not what I would have envisioned mana in paladins to be like ayy.

    I don't mind the idea of weapon switching, but this enforces that these weapons are situational tools of dps application.

    When one weapon becomes more beneficial then the other in every situation you get the pocket koga's claws strat and you have to endure the easy rip and tear...
    Koga just needed less range with the claws, so he could not jump and spam from the backline or highground.

    Imani is sort of... Picks her engagements and can play at every range and angle when needed...
    I do not like how overtoned her dragon feels in proper hands right now and the chancey dps gain from mana...
    I would like to see some burning on inferno cannon and fireball at least...
    I would also like to see her Fireball have a small drogoz sized rocket blast radius at the expense of 150 or so max damage to be replaced with the aforementioned burning.

    If the dragon was a bit weaker, Imani could use a talent to give herself ice armour in ult granting some DR or deployable hp to herself, at the expense she does nothing much else in the team but have greater defence in this aspect.

    Some sort of brawler armour talent switching elemental stance grants temporary Ice armour for trades and pokes.?

    Or a talent that alters the performance of the dragon to frost breath that slows and makes the dragon lethal again once it gets nerfed.

    Her dragon is another story...
    Here you have a damage who can deploy a flying tank with a flamethrower with x5 the dps per tic of Fernando's flamethrower.

    Right...k...

    Why can't it do less damage per tick but gain DoT burning for a bit of damage after they escape the range...
    Make it feel like a burn over a ranged chainsaw.

    If 1 drogoz ult can displace a team, making members of that team seek cover or deploy countermeasures.
    Consider the deployment of a team based drogoz ult that pursuits through ults and then some...
    I consider ults balanced in the sense that you can get one frag out of them or save another life.
    This is both and then some in the right hands...

    I wish the dragon was a bit smaller...
    If the dragon had less dps and upfront hp...
    If it had access to aerial strafing...
    An arcing projectile fireball attack with a brief cd, allowing more effectiveness at range over the cqc free suicide berserker hexifire.

    Its one thing to summon a big tank on the battlefield,
    Allowing it to kill in less then a couple seconds effortlessly is bullshit to watch and fight against.

    It's like skye players who get pissed off at you, they poison you and then throw an ult at your feet while shooting you.
    If you are frontline just doing your job and this happens, you feel sorry that this actually exists in this game.

    A damage can counter it, the right mobility can too, but hey this lasts more then twice as long as ash ult, so more then a quarter of a minute... As torvald I have to run, with nimble 3 for a quarter of a minute (forever) to stay active unless someone does something about it.
    Great...

    You know paladins things...

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    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    I haven’t spoken about Strix because 1) his double weapon play style is already focused and 2) he’s boring af. :-/

    @Dimitri
    I share your opinion on the Mana thing. I don’t care about it during battle, I don’t think it’s that useful, I have no idea why they have introduced it.
    However, this thread is not for complaining against Fuffy which is, imho, not such a big deal. I mean, buy bulldozer and the poor thing is dead in 5 sec. Have a decent flank and Imani can’t ulti for whole game (it happened to me many times). Average team doesn’t protect her at all. Fuffy has no mobility. And Fuffy usually camp around Imani, for you must protect yourself while ulting.

    The problem is that people use only fire or ice, without almost switching. They have 2 weapons? Let’s use 2 weapons, I want to see a continuous switch according to the situations, as Strix already does (long distance enemies? Snipering. Short distance enemies? Switch to gun).

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    Member Marquess Averey's Avatar
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    Sorry I am at work now so can't comment on your balance idea yet from mobile but

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    Then they ultra-buffed claws, with the result that now claws are broken and no one uses guns. Except for Geste. But that’s another story, he does it just to piss me off, so, don’t count him on statistics u.u
    I see you have fallen into Kogeste trap as well. ^^ At least his smg shenanigans are not counted into the statistic.
    Per aspera ad astra.

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    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    I swear, I hate him when he does. This, and Grohk with The Spirits Domain...

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    Beta Player Knight HeatherHomicide's Avatar
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    Oh I thought I saw it all until, Koga and thanks grandpa torvold. I have never seen such cancer.
    #buffWillo

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    Beta Player Archduke GeSteYiam's Avatar
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    Stop bonding by talking against me nubs. I am a pro at every champion

    P.S.:Spirits domain grohk is good
    P.S.2:59%winrate with smg koga

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    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    So, let me understand, you lose with them on purpose when you're in my team?
    However, back to the main topic, what do you think about my "more switching" attitude here?
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    Member Baron Zzyrks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    So, let me understand, you lose with them on purpose when you're in my team?
    However, back to the main topic, what do you think about my "more switching" attitude here?
    Sorry if this post looks bad, I didn’t know how to format it.

    For Imani, they should rework Splitting Ice honestly.

    If you look at Imani’s loadout cards, most of them are cooldown reductions, and mana boosts. A good Imani will use (maybe max) some of these cards: (Keep in mind these are all level 1.) Cooling Runes, (Dealing damage with Frost Bolt reduces the Cooldown of Inferno Cannon by 0.5s.) Draconic Will, (Elemental Shift reduces the Cooldown of Frost Bomb and Inferno Cannon by 1s.) or Heat Sink. (Dealing damage with Pyre Ball reduces the Cooldown of Frost Bomb by 0.5s.) These are the best cooldown reduction cards.

    For mana boost, the best cards are, Arcane Flame, (Increase Inferno Cannon's Mana contribution by 15%.) Arcane Ice, (Increase Frost Bomb's Mana contribution by 15%.) or Mystic Fire (Generate 4% Mana every second while in Frostfire Glide.) Okay, Mystic Fire is pretty trash.

    As, you can see, as Imani, her best playstyle is to switch stances depending on which abilities are on cooldown and which are up. Most Imani’s just select Splitting Ice and stay in the Ice Stance, spamming shots. While this playstyle is decent, it’s definitely not the most optimal.
    Just because I play on the Nintendo Switch, doesn’t automatically mean I’m bad.
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