Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 43

Thread: Furia's Balance

  1. #1
    Member Marquess Averey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    771
    Level
    30
    Points: 2,459, Level: 30
    Level completed: 6%, Points required for next Level: 141
    Achievements:
    Closed Beta Tester Tagger Second Class Forum Tier 2 Overdrive 1000 Experience Points 3 months registered

    Furia's Balance


    Blessings everyone! With this thread I would like to bring up Furia's balance as a support option in the current meta, especially during burst meta, and some propositions to discuss how to make her a more viable pick.

    Being a Furia main with almost 400 games played, mostly in ranked play, I would like to discuss with you some ideas about her current state and ways to improve that. And while I am not claiming that as an achievement, I have experienced her both on lower and higher tiers in competitive play, and I must say that unfortunately I tend to pick her less and less when the team needs a support, especially in Casual, but lately Ranked as well, due to several reasons:

    The main problem Furia currently has is her terrible survivability along with 2 Legendaries being an unviable pick, as the nerfs destroyed Cherish (and, along with it, a more independent playstyle from the team if confronted by many flanks) heling and her shielding on Light of Dawn was nerfed as well (along with adding dmg fall off to her gun and Pyre Strike, making her less able to defend herself on medium+ distance). Her single viable Talent - Solar Blessing, makes her take only one role, that of a main healer of the team, and while bringing good burst healing it brings following drawbacks:

    - Teammates moving out of the Beam trajectory
    - Any teammate able to block the Beam from reaching the target
    - The requirement to stay near frontline to hit with Beam reliably, making her easily focused
    - Bad mobility
    - Bad escape: Wings of Wrath is not steerable, the orbs are halted on corners/stairs, relative short distance covered, no damage immunity
    - Low healing value of Burning Oath

    All that combined ensures that Furia has currently the highest death rate out of all supports, and that with a healer role (Exterminate has a pickrate of 6%), as compared to, for example, Pip who has a more viable damage role and dies less under these conditions. Her damage is still lower than flanks, and requires a build up, while placing healing on PS means she has her CC not available for self defense most of the time as well.

    In my opinion, Furia requires a buff to her survivability and mobility to help solve this issue, along with an increase on unviable cards. Many were discussed already, but possible propositions would be:

    - My favourite from AoC feedback thread: Adding Celerity to her base kit, which would help with her escape being one of the worst in the game.
    - Increase healing of Cherish to 30%, increase of healing range.
    - Light of Dawn shields Furia on usage too for 100|100 in 1|1s
    - Wings of Wrath are steerable like Lian's, +50% distance (if Celerity is not added to base)
    - Decrease the time to heal from Burning Oath to 2s instead of 3, her self HoT is easily overdamaged even without appliance of Cauterize.
    - Valkure's proposition from the Support balance thread on Solar Blessing: Reducing the Heal/s and increasing time of Beam existence, so teammates can actively move to it to for healing on their own.


    Some latest info from the AoC balance Q&A on reddit regarding her balance:


    it is great to hear that the AoC takes the feedback of the community seriously, and will propose an increase to her Cherish to make it a viable Leg again. Let's hope the devs will listen! But, as said, she needs better survivability/mobility as well, so if you can, please take the survey posted in the AoC thread, where adding Celerity to her base kit is asked about.

    Thank you very much for your time reading this, and may the Pyre protect you!
    Last edited by Averey; 03-10-2019 at 10:51 AM.
    Per aspera ad astra.

  2. #2
    Beta Player Count KicsitCsicska's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Deep in the abyss
    Posts
    693
    Level
    47
    Points: 5,444, Level: 47
    Level completed: 47%, Points required for next Level: 106
    Achievements:
    Closed Beta Tester Tagger Second Class 1 year registered Forum Tier 3 5000 Experience Points
    Burning Oath is her most used card already, literally it is her main self heal possibly. It doesn't need even more buff, but her weak talents need. As her mobility too.
    Virtually she has wings but cant fly, has sword but cant melee attack. If these get some role, she will be buffed too.
    E.g.:

    Wings of Wrath has two charges by default.
    Close range (within 8 units) attacks are sword hits, doesn't consumes ammo.
    She can fly up by pressing space bar.
    EXTERMINATE: It also resets the cooldown of Pyre Strike when you get an elimination.
    CHERISH: I agree with your proposal about it, it just needs little buff for be ok.
    Thanks for reading my post!

  3. #3
    Beta Player Baron DarkSoulEnvoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Wonderland
    Posts
    214
    Level
    33
    Points: 2,920, Level: 33
    Level completed: 14%, Points required for next Level: 130
    Achievements:
    Closed Beta Tester 1000 Experience Points Tagger First Class Forum Tier 2 1 year registered
    I really hope people read and understand what you're saying and make adjustments accordingly. I'm going to keep saying this until I'm blue in the face...increasing how much a support character can heal other people does NOT count as a buff to that support character!

  4. #4
    Member Marquess Averey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    771
    Level
    30
    Points: 2,459, Level: 30
    Level completed: 6%, Points required for next Level: 141
    Achievements:
    Closed Beta Tester Tagger Second Class Forum Tier 2 Overdrive 1000 Experience Points 3 months registered
    Quote Originally Posted by KicsitCsicska View Post
    Burning Oath is her most used card already, literally it is her main self heal possibly. It doesn't need even more buff, but her weak talents need. As her mobility too.
    It was never buffed afaik. Burning Oath is used much because it is the only Card for self sustain she has, it does not change the fact that it is bad, and it is contributing to her worst survivability.

    For example, if you put 3 Points in Burning Oath, it will heal you for 315 HP in 3s, meaning you get 105 HP a second. That is very low even without Caut (as coparison, an Andro deals 1444 dps, Koga 1333 dps, Lex 1280 dps and that without headshots or abilities), with Caut III you heal for 10,5 hps, which makes her a very easy target.

    Another comparison, Seris has 2 heal cards and a phasing mobility, which all synergize in a good way to keep her very survivable. And while it makes Sense that Furia has less survivability than Seris, having that bad of a self-HoT along with bad mobility hits her too much in the burst meta.

    Changing the healing time on Burning Oath to 2s instead of 3s would mean she has a slightly better self sustain which is still overdamaged by flank dps, but gives her a more fair chance to survive.

    Quote Originally Posted by KicsitCsicska View Post
    Virtually she has wings but cant fly, has sword but cant melee attack. If these get some role, she will be buffed too.
    E.g.:

    She can fly up by pressing space bar.
    Wings of Wrath has two charges by default.
    Close range (within 8 units) attacks are sword hits, doesn't consumes ammo.
    I completely agree with you on this, and there is nothing I would wish more than Furia getting vertical mobility, it makes zero sense a winged Angel does not use her wings and, additionally, is so slow on the horizontal mobility.

    I think we have to be realistic, however, and do not expect of the developers to make that big of a change as fast - reworking her attack mechanic to swords would take some time, and while I support this, we need to have a more simple to do change happening rather sooner, than later.

    I agree that not much used cards need betterment, I added the proposition of Joccasela to the post as well: to have Light of Dawn shield Furia on usage too for 100|100 in 1|1s, as currently the card lost much in pickrate and effectivity with unviability of Cherish.


    Quote Originally Posted by KicsitCsicska View Post
    EXTERMINATE: It also resets the cooldown of Pyre Strike when you get an elimination.
    Agree with this, Exterminate has extremely low pickrate and would require further attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSoulEnvoy View Post
    I really hope people read and understand what you're saying and make adjustments accordingly. I'm going to keep saying this until I'm blue in the face...increasing how much a support character can heal other people does NOT count as a buff to that support character!
    Yes, I agree with you here, supports require other buffs than healing, which is a direct buff to their teamates and not to the support champion themselves, while as of now they are killed off or cornered to easily with the low TTK (and having 2 underperforming Legs as Furia does not help either).
    Last edited by Averey; 03-10-2019 at 10:56 AM.
    Per aspera ad astra.

  5. #5
    Beta Player Marquess Shadowpuppy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    988
    Level
    56
    Points: 7,168, Level: 56
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 182
    Achievements:
    Closed Beta Tester Forum Tier 3 1 year registered 5000 Experience Points
    Death rate is not a valid stat to use for a buff.
    Once she is not the highest death are we going to buff the next support with the highest death rate?

    I do agree that her mobility blows but that is a balance for her damage output.

    If they buff mobility damage nerf would be next and i dont want that.

    Try taking nimble first pick. It makes a bigger difference on Furia. It will also make hanging back a little less dangerous for tank as you can run in beam run out allot quicker.
    If your teams SUCKS and you find that you can not do anything,... You Suck!

    The road to recovery lies in admitting You SUCK!

    Doing well with a good team is no indication of true skill.
    Stop name calling an admit that you can do better, and you will.

    DONT BE AFRAID TO DIE, ITS THE ONLY WAY TO LEARN NOT TOO...

    Mains & Sub Mains
    • Makoa ------- Drogoz
    • Maeve ------- Cassie
    • Viktor -------- Barik
    • Lian ---------- Lex

  6. #6
    Member Marquess Averey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    771
    Level
    30
    Points: 2,459, Level: 30
    Level completed: 6%, Points required for next Level: 141
    Achievements:
    Closed Beta Tester Tagger Second Class Forum Tier 2 Overdrive 1000 Experience Points 3 months registered
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpuppy View Post
    Death rate is not a valid stat to use for a buff.
    It is among using other statistical information which we know of, because it is an objective statistic. Neither her statistical healing is the highest, being an average quantity (makes sense because to play SB takes skill in zoning, predicting both movements of yourself and team mates, and is not easy areal healing), nor her damage, where she is bested by Pip and Grohk.

    While she exceeds them significantly on dying the most, which is, again, is an objective stat you cannot simply ignore, when considering all the data.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpuppy View Post
    I do agree that her mobility blows but that is a balance for her damage output.

    If they buff mobility damage nerf would be next and i dont want that.
    Disagree with this, out of two reasons.

    First, Furia currently is underperforming as main support, on her survivability and mobility, both of which require betterment and a lot in the community see this, on Reddit as well.
    Second, in ranked play she is not played as damage pick at all, because it is unviable against meta flank/dps picks, with her damage being lower than that of flanks.

    There is zero sense in nerfing a support which is underperforming, the incorporation of Celerity into her base kit as asked for by the AoC feedback thread alone would help her out while she stays very much killable, with flanks having a far lower TTK advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpuppy View Post
    Try taking nimble first pick. It makes a bigger difference on Furia. It will also make hanging back a little less dangerous for tank as you can run in beam run out allot quicker.
    Nimble is a useful item among others, there are other items which are however a must take for her as she is forced into one role of a SB support in competitive environment, such as Chronos, Morale boost, KtH or even Illuminate when no one in the team helps you against Skye which mels a Furia quickly with Debilitate, or an Androxus requiring 1.6 seconds to kill her with base damage while she would require 2.3, and that not counting Defiance, Reversal or headshot damage.
    Last edited by Averey; 03-10-2019 at 11:20 AM.
    Per aspera ad astra.

  7. #7
    Beta Player Archduke GeSteYiam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    4,308
    Level
    77
    Points: 14,402, Level: 77
    Level completed: 88%, Points required for next Level: 48
    Achievements:
    Closed Beta Tester 1 year registered Tagger Second Class Overdrive 10000 Experience Points Forum Tier 4
    I don't want for cherish to heal more but i would like it to be in her main kit but with the change that the monus healing would be added as healing over time

    I don;t want wings of wrath to be steerable cause it is a uniqe movement ability and i would't like to see it become more generic. i think that it woulde be neat if they could be used vericaly as well and maybey travel a bit ferther like 10%

    I would straight up buff burning oath numbers

    Are you suggesteing that light of dawn al lvl5 will give 500 hp shield for 5 seconds?

  8. #8
    Member Marquess Averey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    771
    Level
    30
    Points: 2,459, Level: 30
    Level completed: 6%, Points required for next Level: 141
    Achievements:
    Closed Beta Tester Tagger Second Class Forum Tier 2 Overdrive 1000 Experience Points 3 months registered
    Quote Originally Posted by GeSteYiam View Post
    Are you suggesteing that light of dawn al lvl5 will give 500 hp shield for 5 seconds?
    A possible increase on Light of Dawn would be from 50 to 75, as part of making it a more relevant card.

    However, a suggestion from Joccasela (a flank main in another thread) would be giving her a small shield 100|100 in 1|1s when using Light of Dawn, which would help with her survivability a bit as a possible way, and would make it useful for the Furia as well.
    Per aspera ad astra.

  9. #9
    Beta Player Marquess Shadowpuppy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    988
    Level
    56
    Points: 7,168, Level: 56
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 182
    Achievements:
    Closed Beta Tester Forum Tier 3 1 year registered 5000 Experience Points
    Grok and Pip are played as straight no healing damage champs they are not good picks for discussion on a true healers viability.

    I dont think cherish should be added to the kit, it should get a range buff so people can heal from a distance. Seris has a 300 percent why does furia have no option for distance healing. I understand why they took the range out of base kit but this talent needs something and i think this would be good option.

    Andro and Skye melt everyone, that is not just a furia problem. They need to be nerfed on thier burst.
    If your teams SUCKS and you find that you can not do anything,... You Suck!

    The road to recovery lies in admitting You SUCK!

    Doing well with a good team is no indication of true skill.
    Stop name calling an admit that you can do better, and you will.

    DONT BE AFRAID TO DIE, ITS THE ONLY WAY TO LEARN NOT TOO...

    Mains & Sub Mains
    • Makoa ------- Drogoz
    • Maeve ------- Cassie
    • Viktor -------- Barik
    • Lian ---------- Lex

  10. #10
    Member Marquess Averey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    771
    Level
    30
    Points: 2,459, Level: 30
    Level completed: 6%, Points required for next Level: 141
    Achievements:
    Closed Beta Tester Tagger Second Class Forum Tier 2 Overdrive 1000 Experience Points 3 months registered
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpuppy View Post
    Grok and Pip are played as straight no healing damage champs they are not good picks for discussion on a true healers viability.
    I don't really see what that has to do with the discussion - please don't forget every champion has to have 3 viable Legendaries, and 3 roles to play, as does Furia too. Every support should have a viable offensive role you can take, and the statistic you leave out again shows that her offensive and off-supportive Talents are underperforing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpuppy View Post
    I dont think cherish should be added to the kit, it should get a range buff so people can heal from a distance. Seris has a 300 percent why does furia have no option for distance healing. I understand why they took the range out of base kit but this talent needs something and i think this would be good option.
    The best option to balance her bad survivability and mobility (as she needs a buff on that, as an increase on healing alone does not help Furia herself) would be to add Celerity to the base, ergo to give Wings of Wrath two charges, as specified by Hyuga in the AoC survey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpuppy View Post
    Andro and Skye melt everyone, that is not just a furia problem. They need to be nerfed on thier burst.
    The balance of the game is like it is, and taking that into consideration there should be an improvement to Furia's balance - Andro and Skye have their own threads. Also there is far more burst in the game than just Andro and Skye (claw Koga, Talus et cetera).
    Per aspera ad astra.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •