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Thread: Comparing flanks and Damage DPS.

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    Beta Player Knight MRtriggerbot's Avatar
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    Comparing flanks and Damage DPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Averey View Post
    With the flankers being able to put out more damage than the DPS class.
    http://forums.paladins.com/showthrea...hatred-for-you
    As I was scouting through the Paladins Forum, and reading some of the suggestions left by various users in the "Balance Feedback" section I stumbled upon a particular thread (which you can read above) that caught my interest and inspired me to write this essay on the heated subject of flanks.
    There has been quite a lot of debate on this particular class, with both sides of the argument arguing on what a flanker should and shouldn't be capable of doing, yet I feel like there is a recurring belief that rears its head whenever this particular subject is discussed: the belief that flanks are better damage dealers.
    This might just be me, but I have seen this argument quite a lot in the past month, and so I decided that it was time to dig deeper into this subject to see if it holds any truth.
    I will compare the DPS(Damage.Per.Second) of each and every flank and damage dealer currently released in the game (no Imani), sorting them from highest to lowest DPS whilst also accounting for things like headshots and random bullet spread.
    No talent will be considered, just the base kit of a champion.

    FLANKS


    Androxus
    A Six shot semi-automatic revolver that deals 520 damage per shot every .36s.
    [Base](1/0.36)X520=1444 DPS
    [Headshot](1/0.36)X780=2166 DPS

    Skye
    A wrist-mounted energy crossbow that deals 130 damage per shot every .1 seconds.
    [Base](1/0.1)X130=1300 DPS
    [Headshot](1/0.1)X195=1950 DPS

    Koga
    Fires two rounds each dealing 40 damage every 0.06s.
    [Base](2/0.06)X40=1333 DPS
    [Headshots](2/0.06)X60=2000 DPS
    Hellkite Claws: hurls a fiery slash dealing 600 damage every 0.55s.
    (1/0.55)X600=1090 DPS

    Lex
    Dual semi-automatic magnums that deal 320 damage per shot every 0.25s.
    [Base](1/0.25)X320=1280 DPS
    [Headshot](1/0.25)X480=1920 DPS

    Moji
    Every 0.6s your familiar fires out a magic projectile that deals 250 Damage. Deal more damage for every stack of Magic Mark on the target
    Every 0.1s deal 50 damage in a column of magical energy. Every hit applies 1 Magic Mark to the victim, stacking up to 10.
    [LMB](1/0,6)X250=416 DPS
    [RMB](1/0.1)X50=500 DPS
    [LMB+RMB+10 stacks]775+500=1275 DPS

    Talus
    A short to medium ranged weapon that deals 110 damage every 0.1s.
    [Base](1/0.1)X110=1100 DPS
    [Headshot](1/0.1)X165=1650

    Evie
    An Ice Staff that fires a frozen blast dealing 850 damage every second that explodes in an area on impact.
    (1/1)X850=850 DPS

    Maeve
    Throw two Daggers every second that each deal 400 Damage.
    (1/1)X800=800 DPS

    Zhin
    Within 2 seconds, Hurl burning oil with two quick swings that deal 400 damage and a heavy swing that deals 700 damage.
    [First and second swing](1/0.5)X400=800 DPS
    [Third swing](1/1)X700=700 DPS

    Buck
    A massive shotgun that fires 20 small pieces of shrapnel that deal up to 700 damage every 1s.
    [Base](1/1)X700=700 DPS
    [Headshot](1/1)X1050= 1050 DPS
    Note: It is worth noting that Buck has a unique mechanic known as "Random Bullet Spread" which means that the pellets that come out of his shotgun will be arranged in a random pattern with each shot, greatly reducing the effectiveness of headshots.

    DAMAGE DEALERS


    Viktor
    Fire one shot every 0.1 seconds that deals 135 damage.
    [Base](1/0.1)X135=1350 DPS
    [Headshot](1/0.1)X202=2020 DPS

    Tyra
    Fire one shot every 0.09 seconds that deals 120 damage.
    [Base](1/0.09)X120=1333 DPS
    [Headshot](1/0.09)X180=1999 DPS

    Vivian
    Fire a shot every 0.14s dealing 170 damage.
    [Base](1/0.14)X170=1214 DPS
    [Headshot](1/0.14)X255=1821 DPS

    Dredge
    Every 0.7s fire an explosive projectile that deals 850 damage.
    (1/0.7)X850=1214 DPS

    Strix
    A powerful rifle that fires one 1200 damage shot every second.
    [Base](1/1)X1200=1200 DPS
    [Headshot](1/1)X1800=1800 DPS
    Side Arm: A semi-automatic pistol that deals 220 damage per shot.
    [Base](1/0.2)X220=1100 DPS
    [Headshot](1/0.2)X330=1650 DPS

    Kinessa
    A combination weapon that fires as an energy carbine or a powerful laser rifle. The carbine does 180 damage per shot every .15 seconds.
    [Base](1/0.15)X180=1199 DPS
    [Headshot](1/0.15)X270=1799 DPS
    Charge up and fire a long range attack dealing up to 1200 damage every 1.4s.
    [Base](1/1.4)X1200=857 DPS
    [Headshot](1/1.4)X1800=1285 DPS

    Drogoz
    Bombard lesser creatures with explosive rockets that deal 850 damage per shot every 0.85s.
    (1/0.85)X850=1000 DPS

    Cassie
    A crossbow that deals 680 damage every .75s.
    (1/0.75)X680=906 DPS

    Bomb King
    Throw a sticky bomb every 0.7s that will stick to enemy Champion for 2s, with a maximum of 6 out at once. Sticky Bombs deal 900 damage in an area when detonated
    (1/1)X900=900 DPS
    Note: Detonate has a pre-fire delay of 0.3s which rounds up BK overall DPS to 900.

    Lian
    A rifle that has been passed down through your noble house for ages. Deals 400 damage every 0.45s.
    [Base](1/0.45)X400=888 DPS
    [Headshot](1/0.45)X600= 1333 DPS

    Willo
    Fire a blast of Fae energy that deals 500 damage every 0.75s.
    (1/0.75)X500=666 DPS

    Sha Lin
    A long bow that draws back an arrow and releases it for up to 1000 damage every 1.5s.
    (1/1.5)X1000=666 DPS

    As you can see by the math above the only Flank that is capable of outdamaging a Damage is Androxus with his 1444 base dps, whilst all the other have either equal (Lex, Talus) or inferior DPS.
    Another factor that should be taken into consideration is the effective range of each weapon, since most flankers (with the exception of Maeve) have weapons that work best at short range it means that they have to expose themself a lot more frequently compared to any other Damage champion, which is not that they can frequently do due to their low health pools.

    TL;DR: Androxus is the only OP flanker, everyone else is fine.
    Last edited by MRtriggerbot; 01-13-2019 at 07:43 AM.

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    Beta Player Prince GaoShun's Avatar
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    ^ So you compare only the LMB damage for most of them while some of them get combine LMB+RMB bonus stacks like Moji?
    cause I am sure Androxus Skye and Talus capable of producing far more DPS when they use other buttons like Andro punch combo, Skye poison combo, and Talus Overcharge that made their LMB DPS seems like a substitute attack while waiting for those ability cd (and their cd are quite low)

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    Beta Player Grand Prince M3RC3N4RI0's Avatar
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    What's the point in not taking damage boosting Talents into account? The champs will obviously use those Talents.

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    Beta Player Knight MRtriggerbot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M3RC3N4RI0 View Post
    What's the point in not taking damage boosting Talents into account? The champs will obviously use those Talents.
    I did not take damage boosting talenst into account for a number of different reasons:
    1)Not every champion has one
    2)Those that do have one usually have it tied with a specific ability or gimmick, which in turn would add even more factor such as cooldown and duration increase/decrease.
    3)Sometimes picking a dmg boost is not the most obvious choice, in some situations picking Bulk Up over Ensnare or Reposition over Eagle Eye could make or break a game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GaoShun View Post
    ^ So you compare only the LMB damage for most of them while some of them get combine LMB+RMB bonus stacks like Moji?
    That's because some champions like Moji or Bk need to combine both of their LMB and RMB in order to do the bare minimum, other champions don't.
    You can perfectly play Viktor without his iron sight or Androxus without his punch but you can't play Bk without detonating bombs.
    Quote Originally Posted by GaoShun View Post
    Androxus Skye and Talus capable of producing far more DPS when they use other buttons like Andro punch combo, Skye poison combo, and Talus Overcharge that made their LMB DPS seems like a substitute attack while waiting for those ability cd
    That is a good point to make so let me explain my train of thought behind this thread.
    The keyword here is constant damage, I wanted to compare the constant damage of each and every single flank and damage dealer in the game to see which class had the highest numbers.
    Now, the abilities that you just mentioned can certainly increase the damage capability of said champions but they also have a cooldown and a limited duration which means that they won't be available during every single encounter.
    Most of Talus damage still comes out of his regular LMB, just like most of Sha Lin damage comes from his bow and not from Planted.
    Last edited by MRtriggerbot; 01-13-2019 at 05:59 AM.

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    Beta Player Viscount togezard's Avatar
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    Koga
    Fires two rounds each dealing 40 damage every 0.06s.
    [Base](1/0.06)X40=666 DPS
    [Headshots](1/0.06)X60=999 DPS
    Your calculation only factors in 1 of kogas shots. His actual dps is twice as much.
    [Base](2/0.06)X40=1333 DPS
    [Headshots](2/0.06)X60=2000 DPS
    Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus

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    Beta Player Knight MRtriggerbot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by togezard View Post
    Your calculation only factors in 1 of kogas shots. His actual dps is twice as much.
    [Base](2/0.06)X40=1333 DPS
    [Headshots](2/0.06)X60=2000 DPS
    Fix it, thanks for pointing it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MRtriggerbot View Post
    That's because some champions like Moji or Bk need to combine both of their LMB and RMB in order to do the bare minimum, other champions don't.
    You can perfectly play Viktor without his iron sight or Androxus without his punch but you can't play Bk without detonating bombs.

    That is a good point to make so let me explain my train of thought behind this thread.
    The keyword here is constant damage, I wanted to compare the constant damage of each and every single flank and damage dealer in the game to see which class had the highest numbers.
    Now, the abilities that you just mentioned can certainly increase the damage capability of said champions but they also have a cooldown and a limited duration which means that they won't be available during every single encounter.
    Most of Talus damage still comes out of his regular LMB, just like most of Sha Lin damage comes from his bow and not from Planted.
    I used those 3 as examples because for Androxus the punch almost doesn't have a cd, for Skye debilitate poison bolt combo is the biggest DPS in the game, and for Talus you can have 2 Overcharge in succession by using a talent, greatly increasing his DPS and making his LMB become an optional attack

    I think only Cassie's LMB+Q combo has similar DPS with similar cd. Sha Lin's planted is definitely not there cause the skill has very long cd

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