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Thread: Valk's first and last balance thread on supports

  1. #61
    Beta Player Baron
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    Void Grip is useful. Here is other things you can use it for:
    Making a champion an easy target for your team for 2 seconds.
    Catching a champion who is trying to escape. Void Grip can cancel movement skills.
    Lifting Barik who is hiding behind is barrier. Void Grip bypasses barriers.
    You know to help your team. It is almost like Jenos is a support champion.

  2. #62
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Averey View Post
    So the damage was nerfed as well, not "only" range and damage fall off?
    From what they said, yes (PS: I've experienced myself a probably nerf on dmg, I mean, the day before I had a X amount of average dmg. The day after, the number has decreased).

    Quote Originally Posted by Averey View Post
    It has some uses to halt a flank mobility for a bit (better than a stun), so your teammates can help you, problem is Jenos can very well be dead before that happens (every range char just shoot him).
    If I remember correctly the numbers, Skye can melt a tank in 1.7 sec (let's figure a support!) and Andro needs 1.3. So... :-/
    I've finally found it!

    New to the forum? Have a look >>>here<<<! Some useful answers.

    #AggressiveSupports
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  3. #63
    Member Marquess Averey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    From what they said, yes (PS: I've experienced myself a probably nerf on dmg, I mean, the day before I had a X amount of average dmg. The day after, the number has decreased).
    I see. The nerf on damage fall off on the weapon and the Beam distance was significant as well, afaik, and she is now far less capable of defending herself, leading to her highest death rate among all of the supports according to the Stat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    If I remember correctly the numbers, Skye can melt a tank in 1.7 sec (let's figure a support!) and Andro needs 1.3. So... :-/
    That's the burst meta problem again... I believe your and many others proposition to revert it to the old game state of more mobility and longer survivability with less damage to be justified seeing how the balance is now... The only problem, probably, with it is the unwillingness of the devs to revert things. :/
    Per aspera ad astra.

  4. #64
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Averey View Post
    The only problem, probably, with it is the unwillingness of the devs to revert things. :/
    And that's why we have a Walla. You know, his only duty is to harass Devs with our suggestions u.u
    I've finally found it!

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    #AggressiveSupports
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    "It's just Casual/ Go Ranked if you want a decent team/You are low tier, so you're bad." Rage

  5. #65
    Member Marquess Averey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    And that's why we have a Walla. You know, his only duty is to harass Devs with our suggestions u.u
    I hope he can forward to the devs your suggestions, playing supports solo in ranked is not enjoyable with that over dependance on teammates. :/
    Per aspera ad astra.

  6. #66
    Beta Player Viscount ThunderZsolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    From what they said, yes (PS: I've experienced myself a probably nerf on dmg, I mean, the day before I had a X amount of average dmg. The day after, the number has decreased).


    If I remember correctly the numbers, Skye can melt a tank in 1.7 sec (let's figure a support!) and Andro needs 1.3. So... :-/
    OFF TOPIC
    Skye time to kill values ON 2200 HP targets:

    Theoretical maximum DPS (100% accuracy and full headshots):
    130 damage every 0,1 seconds = 1300 DPS x1,5 because of headshots is 1950 DPS.

    On top of that comes debilitate for 39% max HP uver 2 seconds:
    2200 x 0,39 = 858 HP over 2s, which equals 429 extra DPS, for a total 1950 + 429 = 2379.

    Time to kill on 2200HP is 2200 / 2379 = 0,924 seconds.

    Side note:
    Do you think it is bad?
    It requires Skye to be in close range, and have 100% accuracy on headshots.
    I admit, killing a Skye after she landed poison bolts on you as a support is almost impossible, but at least you have a very low chance.

    How about getting 2 bodyshots from a sniper with 1 second between the 2 shots, from the other side of the map?
    That is far more likely to happen.

    And what about Cassie?
    With big game she deals 220 bonus damage on 2200HP targets after hitting with disengage for a total 680 + 220 = 900 damage per shot.

    She can pull off the crossbow (680) + disengage (200) + blast shot (450) + crossbow (900) = 2230 HP combo in exactly 0,75 seconds.
    Again, from the other side of the map, where you have no chance to fight back.
    I am the night!
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    Wishlist
    Skye announcer pack
    Cooldown on broadside
    More survivability for supports
    Lex can combat slide in the air

    Did you know?
    Skye is an island near Scotland, home of the Clan MacDonald and Clan MacLeod - the latter famous for producing the Isle of Skye whisky.

  7. #67
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    I've followed your Math, but the truth is... a sniper is harassed by flankers, needs undisturbed line of sight, needs a good positioning, etc.
    Random game: you are trying to keep team alive and they are usually ALL out of position (so you must go in bad position to get line of sight or range), you are avoiding Dredge spamming broadside, Tyra spamming fire bomb, Makoa spamming hook and so on, you take just one shot from the aforementioned and guess what happens in all this avoiding, when a Skye finds you while coming from your back?
    1 sec is not enough for react, half of the time I die without even the UI showing me where I am taking dmg (I've opened a bug report about it, but still no answer). You don't have the time to realize she's behind you and even if you have, you die for poison even after someone killed her.

    This game made success due to the strategy it has. Reducing everything to "melt in a second" is what has reduced player base so much.

    Then we can speak about others. Is Skye bad? Yes. Is she the only one bad? Not at all.
    All the cases are calling for a massive unnerf on supports, for their HP, mobility and dmg.
    I've finally found it!

    New to the forum? Have a look >>>here<<<! Some useful answers.

    #AggressiveSupports
    I'm tired of repeating the same things, watch this: link

    "It's just Casual/ Go Ranked if you want a decent team/You are low tier, so you're bad." Rage

  8. #68
    Banned Baron
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderZsolt View Post
    How about getting 2 bodyshots from a sniper with 1 second between the 2 shots, from the other side of the map?

    She can pull off the crossbow (680) + disengage (200) + blast shot (450) + crossbow (900) = 2230 HP combo in exactly 0,75 seconds.
    Again, from the other side of the map, where you have no chance to fight back.
    I think that the ability of making combos of primary fire and skills is an issue in this game, not only referring to Cassie but she remains a projectile champ, someone who can do that trick from the other side of the map and getting the kill deserved it
    Same for snipers, personally I think it wouldn't be a problem if they'd kill with 1 headshot but given that headshots seem random in this game maybe it's better if they don't, still: the moment they can't even 2 shots then what's the use of a sniper? A good sniper that can consistently land his shots is a real pain in the ass to play against but it's not like all the strong things has to be removed from the game. If you're a support you can't directly counter someone who fires from a distance but this is a case when game awareness, positioning, good team interplay actually step in

  9. #69
    Beta Player Viscount ThunderZsolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    1 sec is not enough for react, half of the time I die without even the UI showing me where I am taking dmg (I've opened a bug report about it, but still no answer). You don't have the time to realize she's behind you and even if you have, you die for poison even after someone killed her.

    This game made success due to the strategy it has. Reducing everything to "melt in a second" is what has reduced player base so much.

    Then we can speak about others. Is Skye bad? Yes. Is she the only one bad? Not at all.
    All the cases are calling for a massive unnerf on supports, for their HP, mobility and dmg.
    This, and the player numbers never reached the levels before pay2win "cards unbound" OB64.

    They can talk about "ending the burst meta" but when literally half of the champions can kill anything but front lines under 2 seconds, which feels close to instant because of UI bugs and bad server connections, nerfing/taking out a few talents and loadout cards won't fix the problem.
    HP and mobility increase, on the other hand... but I doubt it will happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by yokopokomayoko View Post
    I think that the ability of making combos of primary fire and skills is an issue in this game, not only referring to Cassie but she remains a projectile champ, someone who can do that trick from the other side of the map and getting the kill deserved it
    Same for snipers, personally I think it wouldn't be a problem if they'd kill with 1 headshot but given that headshots seem random in this game maybe it's better if they don't, still: the moment they can't even 2 shots then what's the use of a sniper? A good sniper that can consistently land his shots is a real pain in the ass to play against but it's not like all the strong things has to be removed from the game. If you're a support you can't directly counter someone who fires from a distance but this is a case when game awareness, positioning, good team interplay actually step in
    You are right, the full combo is hard to pull off from a distance, I just quoted Cassie, because she is the burst monster, and with big game she kills front lines faster than debilitate Skye as well, and she is broken since... idk, i started playing in OB30ish, she is broken since that time, but she used to require skill because the projectile speed was much slower.

    Point is, that a lot of damage champions can pull off higher burst damage than flankers, because their abilities deal damage, while flankers have movement abilities. On top of that, damage champions can poke from afar, not always killing you, but getting you low HP so you either get to cover and do nothing useful for your team, but you often die to them when trying to reach cover.

    Flanks do the same, but from close range, in other words, they have to go all in: they are not leaving unless they kill 1 or 2 of your teammates. No wonder that you only see damages in pro play, but no flanks.
    I am the night!
    I can't get any better!
    I am a stampeding tortoise!

    Wishlist
    Skye announcer pack
    Cooldown on broadside
    More survivability for supports
    Lex can combat slide in the air

    Did you know?
    Skye is an island near Scotland, home of the Clan MacDonald and Clan MacLeod - the latter famous for producing the Isle of Skye whisky.

  10. #70
    Member Marquess Averey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderZsolt View Post
    Flanks do the same, but from close range, in other words, they have to go all in: they are not leaving unless they kill 1 or 2 of your teammates. No wonder that you only see damages in pro play, but no flanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by ShiyoKozuki View Post
    I watch grand master games, and I consistently see 2 flank 1 tank teams win, as well as flanks carrying the entire game.
    I'm confused, now (GM should be at that level, right) -.-

    Also, there are flanks who have a good range on their abilities and can take you down even from relative safety, Skye, for example, standing up on the bridge at Serpent Beach having no problem reaching and killing targets standing further at the buildings after the road cross.
    Last edited by Averey; 01-12-2019 at 07:00 AM.
    Per aspera ad astra.

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