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Thread: Jenos' balancing suggestions

  1. #31
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    Yes, at first release, Jenos was a monster. He was in need of a nerf. The problem is that they've nerfed him too much.

    And when CU was removed, all supports underwent that pitiful fate we all know.

    Still, you are evaluating Jenos not as a champ per se, but only in the function to be a tank's healing bot. We've seen how healing bots are working and the answer is: pretty bad. Except when a troll/afk is in my game, my Ying wins constantly against Life Exchange + Moral Boost geniuses. Please, stop trying to balance supports as if they'd be healing bot.
    Or, if you want healing bots into this game, then we are in need of a new class of champs: the protector. Whenever the protect is more than 10 units from the healing-bot, s/he will die instantly. At least we will be finally able to see someone protecting the healer.
    I've finally found it!

    New to the forum? Have a look >>>here<<<! Some useful answers.

    #AggressiveSupports
    I'm tired of repeating the same things, watch this: link

    "It's just Casual/ Go Ranked if you want a decent team/You are low tier, so you're bad." Go and f**k yourself.

  2. #32
    Beta Player Viscount
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    Most healers have +400 per sec healing
    Or burst.

    Jenos has a neither.
    Only 220... for 10s...

    So for a frontline to need 6s to in order to heal up from lowish hp you may as well go out of combat.
    You NEED your sustain to accommodate for Jenos healing.

    This should not be a mandatory build in order to get the most out of him to hasten your recovery time.

    His sustain healing could stand to be duffed to be based upon champions maximum HP and lose some duration and cool down of his healing.
    Or gain an additional healing feature that puts him at a disadvantage somehow.

    By design, a support often has to put themselves out there, make themselves less defensive in order drastically aid the recovery of the Juggernauts thus the proposal for the stellar wind healing feature.

    But Jenos has none of that really and so that's all the Juggernaut gets, abysmal trickling heals for the potential to often utilise his control for kill security. And with low dps, the foe may often escape you, bing lift in the air sometimes puts the enemy out of some burst damage from tanks such as Ash, Khan, as well as it can screw with scorch nando, shatterfall. So it really is counter intuitive to these few.

  3. #33
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    Dimitri, keep in mind that those heals per sec are there to "compensate" the burst dmg situation.
    1) reduce damn burst dmg
    2) reduce the heal rate
    3) give back to supports what they've been stripped off (ie: dmg, mobility, HP, survivability)
    and problem solved.

    The best part of this game was that supports were not healing bot. Nerfing the hell out of them just to make them healing bot is one of the major issues this game has.
    My balancing proposal for Jenos is in the first page, by the way.
    I've finally found it!

    New to the forum? Have a look >>>here<<<! Some useful answers.

    #AggressiveSupports
    I'm tired of repeating the same things, watch this: link

    "It's just Casual/ Go Ranked if you want a decent team/You are low tier, so you're bad." Go and f**k yourself.

  4. #34
    Beta Player Viscount
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    Still, you are evaluating Jenos not as a champ per se, but only in the function to be a tank's healing bot.
    No, I am not.

    I am identifying why I feel the main issue with JENOS atm is entirely to do with his synergy with FRONTLINE META

    Every support is a recovery engine to the team.
    Even with his potential to reset this recovery engine has an obvious flaw when it comes to sustaining Frontlines right now.
    Current healing value is to soft for a tank to make a difference unless I am using out of combat to literally instaheal.

    That same healing value that made it hard for a Frontline to kill anything was ideal when it came to their healing.
    But that same healing value on certain squishes was an issue to low dps squishes and Front lines with bad survivability.
    Last edited by AyyDimitri; 11-08-2018 at 09:50 PM.

  5. #35
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    As said, you are not considering what Jenos needs as a champ, but only as healing bot to tanks.
    Well, from the main support PoV, the main problem supports have is survivability (and boredom, but that's another story). Being nerfed on everything except heals (that, I repeat, it's not a buff to them, but to others), and with no one helping them (but pro players/streamer/in my tier/I am a saint, etc, not counting. 90% of times, no one helps the support, deal with it), supports need buff to be able to defend themselves.

    You cannot think to be able to balance a champ you don't use (and yes, I've checked, even if I was 100% sure, by what you've said in your previous posts), only according to the advantages you (not playing him) could get, as a different champ.
    And as said before, nerfing the healing output of everyone is the 2nd point of my balance path.
    I've finally found it!

    New to the forum? Have a look >>>here<<<! Some useful answers.

    #AggressiveSupports
    I'm tired of repeating the same things, watch this: link

    "It's just Casual/ Go Ranked if you want a decent team/You are low tier, so you're bad." Go and f**k yourself.

  6. #36
    Beta Player Viscount
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    As said, you are not considering what Jenos needs as a champ, but only as healing bot to tanks.
    Well, from the main support PoV, the main problem supports have is survivability (and boredom, but that's another story). Being nerfed on everything except heals (that, I repeat, it's not a buff to them, but to others), and with no one helping them (but pro players/streamer/in my tier/I am a saint, etc, not counting. 90% of times, no one helps the support, deal with it), supports need buff to be able to defend themselves.

    You cannot think to be able to balance a champ you don't use (and yes, I've checked, even if I was 100% sure, by what you've said in your previous posts), only according to the advantages you (not playing him) could get, as a different champ.
    And as said before, nerfing the healing output of everyone is the 2nd point of my balance path.
    As a favour to me, I would ask you to watch condescending tone toward me val.

    Can I state my opinions around his current state of play, and what needs to be considered about balancing, without enduring the "The best part of this game was that supports were not healing bot." that you iterate every thread.

    Jenos is more kill securer then healer, so if you start on jenos being a heal bot, I don't need time on Jenos to say why you are wrong.

    And having my playtime on champions proven as some competency, or privilege to even comment here is quite disrespectful.
    I pretty much went on a rant about it and you have the mentality to state "You cannot think to be able to balance a champ you don't use"

    If you say I am unqualified to comment on your second main.
    Fine... that's rather rude.

    By your logic we all should dictate you know nothing about this undying zhin, that I guess you only lose games with so why should we listen to you rant bout anything do do with him?
    Or that you have no ability to even talk about Nando the way you did in the Fernando thread as you have very little experience to play him.

    Get real....
    Don't be a hypocrite....
    Let people share their experiences without your grand overarching majesty

    Your piety for exclusively being a "Support Main" deludes you into thinking you understand balance.
    Remember there is always more to learn.


    I'm not saying your considerations for balance are not noteworthy, but I'd prefer it if I didn't get such a REEEEE HEAL BOT NORMIEEEE reaction.
    I really do detest support mains who exclusively play support and nothing else.
    Ask yourself, how can you know what is balance in this game.
    You really can't talk about that element of balance unless you are on the receiving end of it every end of it.
    And I am stating what I know and what I feel his issues are from my perspective, and WHAT HAS ACTUALLY COST ME GAMES due to Jenos being picked.

    And if you did not gain any insight by what I have said in this tread Val,
    Then you should not have a right to comment on balance.

  7. #37
    Beta Player Viscount KicsitCsicska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    my Ying wins constantly against Life Exchange + Moral Boost geniuses..
    I saw you have Ying loadouts only for Resonance. As Buck would say:
    https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.ne...alth_Low_2.ogg
    Thanks for reading my post!

  8. #38
    Beta Player Viscount ThunderZsolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    PS: I've suggested the same in the first page.
    Sorry, I didn't mean to steal your idea.
    Just, y'know, I don't always read the full posts, especially if they are long.
    my bad.

    So +1 to this buff!
    "Fun" fact: until 1.7, Androxus could 1v1 Terminus with defiance only:
    700 damage x 6 hit for total 4200HP takes 5 x 0,6=3 seconds to kill Terminus
    650 damage x 4 hit for total 2600HP takes 3 x 1,1=3,3 seconds to kill Androxus
    Because the first hit doesn't take time to land. Stats are from the Wiki.

  9. #39
    Beta Player Prince M3RC3N4RI0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AyyDimitri View Post
    But for me, Jenos healing current healing DOES NOT WORK FOR FRONTLINES
    Jenos is no good healer with double tank, because celestial touch is not strong enough. He is only viable with Luminary and solo tank. On a low HP champ his reliable 220hps heal works quite well. For being a good healer for double tank meta he would either need more additional heal with celestial touch or the ability to stack his healing marks. The point is simply that he got his healing nerfed while Ying, Grover, Grohk, Pip, got their healing buffed.

  10. #40
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AyyDimitri View Post
    As a favour to me, I would ask you to watch condescending tone toward me val.
    I've reported this sentence because it's incredibly funny, considering your words below :-D

    Let me write a bit of back story. Supports were good and fun to play, and this is by a person who started the game as a support main and is here, after 2 years, still as a support main. Then, after many crybabies, we found supports relegated to be just healing bot and we, players, heavily harassed if we don't pick the retarded-LC and loadout that allow us just to spawn heals and die pitifully when whoever enemy approaches.

    The problem support class has suffered is, easy as that, that the buff/nerf were not thought for support class, but for other classes that wanted this or that from supports.
    Tank mains wanted more heals, for they think they should be dmg-sponge. Flank mains wanted more range (for being healed on the other side of the map), but less HP and dmg (for they want also easy kills!). DD mains were following the previous 2.

    The result is that every nerf is ON EVERYTHING except the thing that should be addressed (ie: nerf the damn heals, so that Cauterize 3 would not be mandatory in every game where the support player has an IQ above 15) and BUFF are only on heals OF OTHERS. Self-healing cards have been nerfed too! :-D :-D :-D


    And now, attention about the "condescending tone" :-D :-D :-D :

    Quote Originally Posted by AyyDimitri View Post
    Your piety for exclusively being a "Support Main" deludes you into thinking you understand balance.
    Psssssst, psssssst! I have another account! ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by AyyDimitri View Post
    I'm not saying your considerations for balance are not noteworthy, but I'd prefer it if I didn't get such a REEEEE HEAL BOT NORMIEEEE reaction.
    Not understanding my words and mocking the reaction of a child, aka: comparing me to a child.

    Quote Originally Posted by AyyDimitri View Post
    I really do detest support mains who exclusively play support and nothing else.
    Implicitly accusing me of playing only support, aka saying that you detest me.

    Quote Originally Posted by AyyDimitri View Post
    Ask yourself, how can you know what is balance in this game.
    You really can't talk about that element of balance unless you are on the receiving end of it every end of it.
    And I am stating what I know and what I feel his issues are from my perspective, and WHAT HAS ACTUALLY COST ME GAMES due to Jenos being picked.
    Accusing me of not understanding anything of this game.

    Quote Originally Posted by AyyDimitri View Post
    And if you did not gain any insight by what I have said in this tread Val,
    Then you should not have a right to comment on balance.
    Trying to shut me up, without any logic by your side.

    However, since you are curious, not only on main account I have a decent amount of champs with level more or just below 30 (Lian, Willo, Koga, Dredge...), but on secondary account I am a main flank and DD.
    I play every damn day with BF, who is a tank main and, trust me on that, I perfectly know what a tank main needs. He is happy with Jenos as he is happy with Ying. The difference with random tank main is that he KNOWS when to retreat to be healed (you know, caut, too much dmg, etc).
    And when he doesn't realize it, there's a voice (me!), screaming "Come back, I cannot keep you alive!".

    Learn to retreat. Supports are not your personal healing bot, exactly like tanks are not designed to sit on point, dying endlessly.

    At the end of this, I've proven that I know enough about all roles in the game, but you are still the one playing Jenos 8 times, asking for the n-th buff on healing-others (that would probably implies a consequential nerf on everything else to compensate!).
    Just a suggestion: attacking me would not prove your points any better. Jenos is not Seris, his basic design is not meant to keep anyone alive. If you do expect from Jenos the same play styles and performances than a The Void Abide Seris, it is not me the one not understanding the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by KicsitCsicska View Post
    I saw you have Ying loadouts only for Resonance.
    Actually no, there should be also one for Life Exchange. I've made a loadout for trying it in the shooting range and I think I haven't yet deleted it. But, as you can easily guess, it is 100% useless.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderZsolt View Post
    Sorry, I didn't mean to steal your idea.
    Don't worry, that wasn't the point. It was just to point out that probably people had already commented on the first pages about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3RC3N4RI0 View Post
    Jenos is no good healer with double tank, because celestial touch is not strong enough. He is only viable with Luminary and solo tank.
    The point is that Jenos has not be made with the idea of keeping alive a double tank composition, but to provide constant buff to the team. Trying to force Jenos in playing as Seris is stupid.
    Pick a Seris, instead.
    I've finally found it!

    New to the forum? Have a look >>>here<<<! Some useful answers.

    #AggressiveSupports
    I'm tired of repeating the same things, watch this: link

    "It's just Casual/ Go Ranked if you want a decent team/You are low tier, so you're bad." Go and f**k yourself.

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