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Thread: The impact of healing

  1. #41
    Super Moderator Emperor Wallachia's Avatar
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    40 posts and nobody was fighting?

    I must enjoy this moment.
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  2. #42
    Member Baron Luni8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallachia View Post
    40 posts and nobody was fighting?

    I must enjoy this moment.

    That's because Valkure hasn't argue much (yet... :P )

  3. #43
    Beta Player Archduke GeSteYiam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    Now you're making me feeling guilty :-/
    No no no, don't. Why feel guilty?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wallachia View Post
    40 posts and nobody was fighting?

    I must enjoy this moment.
    Come on, don't you enjoy reading heated posts? Not the mod Walla but the person.

    @Derpions: Still you need teammates that know how to hide to clear caut.

  4. #44
    Beta Player Marquess SiderumNocte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElectroPaladin View Post
    EDIT: Mercenario if you are really fond of pro players and winrates, well you can go watch kami's vid, he did pretty good using aerial assault on ruckus, a legendary card with least popularity and 3% lower winrate then rocket barrage. Even kami was confused why was it considered not meta.
    Because there are a number of good talents that are just "Out Valued" by other talents.

    Big Game Cassie has always been viable but it took a number of nerfs to Cassie and finally to Impulse for it show up.
    One of the biggest issues with the Pro Scene is that they do not like changing up things too much especially if it was proven to work despite there being other champions or talents that are just as Valuable.

    Essentially if you want the META to change you have to either prove that something works or wait for enough meaningful nerfs to come through that forces players to change up their playstyle.

    Viktor has three viable talents: Shrapnel (Which is banned), Burst Mode and Firefight. Burst Mode is ran but if you ever came across a Firefight Viktor than you probably just got melted.
    Patch 1.4 Ying Best Healer in the Damn Game.

  5. #45
    Beta Player Sovereign Prince ElectroPaladin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiderumNocte View Post
    Because there are a number of good talents that are just "Out Valued" by other talents.

    Big Game Cassie has always been viable but it took a number of nerfs to Cassie and finally to Impulse for it show up.
    One of the biggest issues with the Pro Scene is that they do not like changing up things too much especially if it was proven to work despite there being other champions or talents that are just as Valuable.

    Essentially if you want the META to change you have to either prove that something works or wait for enough meaningful nerfs to come through that forces players to change up their playstyle.

    Viktor has three viable talents: Shrapnel (Which is banned), Burst Mode and Firefight. Burst Mode is ran but if you ever came across a Firefight Viktor than you probably just got melted.
    I know why a talent is considered meta and why is one not.
    I just wanted to show mercenario that following winrates and pro players won't get him anywhere, his arguments hold nothing but,"if he can do it why can't others", while when trying to explain that to him, he again references pro players.

  6. #46
    Beta Player Marquess SiderumNocte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElectroPaladin View Post
    I know why a talent is considered meta and why is one not.
    I just wanted to show mercenario that following winrates and pro players won't get him anywhere, his arguments hold nothing but,"if he can do it why can't others", while when trying to explain that to him, he again references pro players.
    I'm not a fan of winrates and those trash statistics. If they ever hold any influence in balancing it should be the smallest amount possible. Winrates cannot justify balancing in a logical way.

    A talent can be down right broken but if the champion is hardly picked and all the statistics show is that the champion is hardly picked and then the Devs buff said Broken Talent to make that champion more relevant, I don't consider that balancing, all that becomes is an illogical balance change. You're not balancing what needs to be balanced you're just making changes for the sake of seeing a difference in internal data and that doesn't make much sense.

    I think referencing Pro Players is fine but don't take it as Gospel. Even among the Pro Players if you asked them about the balance of one champion you would probably get different responses.
    Patch 1.4 Ying Best Healer in the Damn Game.

  7. #47
    Beta Player Prince IamRick1996's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpions View Post
    In my opinion the very strong healers Ying and Seris should be played mainly as healing bot.
    I get why people view seris as the epitome of a healbot but i just like to point out that its not her only playstyle

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
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    I like the way you think.
    Bad thing is not many people have the petience to argue with her since penzius became a mod.
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  8. #48
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpions View Post
    I totally agree that playing as a healing bot is very rewarding if you are good enough.
    Speak for yourself. Even when I got 250k heals I felt frustrated for having done absolutely nothing to gain the victory/being unable to carry to avoid the loss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derpions View Post
    So in my opinion in this typical clashes for the point when 4 Tanks fight on the point, the heal is in a key position.
    Hint: cauterize.
    Or you can just kill enemy tanks and avoid all the problem. Because when cauterize sets in, there's no way to outheal dmg. But if you're able to kill the tanks on your own, your tank will survive.
    ie: if my Fernando has just 500HP, I can choose 1) heal him or 2) kill enemy Makoa. Healing him would not be fast enough to make him survive. But kill Makoa and AFTER THAT healing Fernando will solve the problem.
    You cannot outheal dmg.
    On top of that, cauterize will make your heals even more ineffective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derpions View Post
    On the other hand the damage is often not enough to outdamage the enemys heal.
    Are you playing the same game as me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Derpions View Post
    This is just my opinion, but I have the experience that you can carry as healing bot especially with seris and Ying
    My experience is that my Bomb Ying destroys whatever Life Exchange Ying. And I am so pissed off by healing bot and by random teammates harassing, that at the end of whatever game, I write this in the final chat:

    Bomb Ying beats Life Exchange once again.

    Yes, I'm a bully ^^
    The only games I've lost with Ying, lately, are just due to an afk in team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallachia View Post
    40 posts and nobody was fighting?
    I must enjoy this moment.
    Give me time u.u

    Quote Originally Posted by ElectroPaladin View Post
    I just wanted to show mercenario that following winrates and pro players won't get him anywhere, his arguments hold nothing but,"if he can do it why can't others", while when trying to explain that to him, he again references pro players.
    I had the permission of writing this under copyright:
    "What is good for Mutu, is good for me!" ^^

    Quote Originally Posted by IamRick1996 View Post
    I get why people view seris as the epitome of a healbot but i just like to point out that its not her only playstyle
    I met a Seris with Soul Collector, on Saturday. She was a beast. I hate to try it...
    I've finally found it!

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  9. #49
    Beta Player Prince M3RC3N4RI0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiderumNocte View Post
    This for some reason is quite common in Jenos players. They just sit back and place heals on whoever they can. The major difference between the lower ranks and skill levels and the higher is that Support players do not need to "frag" as hard or healing becomes far more important than the damage itself because you have players that can essentially pick up the "slack".

    At the lower levels and mid levels a mixture of damage and healing is more important rather than just one over the other. It really does come down to that game is different in how it is approached.

    This is one of the reasons Life Exchange Ying is popular in EU especially. I love what Life Exchange brings to the table but I also know that you're not gonna get high damage in the scope of supports using it either but the healing often is more than enough to offset the lack of damage and not just that but the ability to keep allies alive who will make up for that lack of damage.
    He plays life-exchange Ying like he plays Jenos, 200K heal and 20K damage or something like that. I agree in general that a fighting support is superior to a healing-only support and I wrote this is older posts. The reason is because the other team has to fight five people instead of four. The fighting support draws attention and damage, I tried the only-healing Jenos quite a while ago and it didn't work very well. In fact, though I watch vids of pro-players now and then I never saw someone playing a Jenos THAT defensively. I see this as a sign that the supports for an aggressive playstyle simply are not strong enough anymore.

    If Focus Lens was brought to Ying's base kit her damage would get a huge boost and she could contribute more to the fight.
    But HP and damage of supports got systematically reduced.

    Life Exchange just redirects the focus to the healing while sacrificing one part of her kit and changing it into something else. The Illusion damage really does help with Ying's damage overall and it definitely is sort of missed whilst using Life Exchange.
    Exactly. And not only Resonance Ying but also Lifelike Ying does more damage than playing with her now most popular Talent Life Exchange.

    Honestly 19k seems a little bit low there for an already low damage outcome. I feel with that amount of healing you should actually be sitting around at least 28k+ damage.
    In fact I am shocked that a player with such a high skill gets such a ridiculous damage. This was the outcome I had myself when playing LE-Ying but I thought this is because my aim is too bad and my skill is not high enough to combine the two heals with using the weapon.

  10. #50
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M3RC3N4RI0 View Post
    Exactly. And not only Resonance Ying but also Lifelike Ying does more damage than playing with her now most popular Talent Life Exchange.
    This is just my personal experience, but every Ying not picking Life Exchange (ie: not taken into considerations trolls or afk in team) is winning against a Life Exchange one.
    The only way for a Life Exchange one to win is against another Life Exchange Ying. Or when enemy team has no healer. Or when enemy team is really bad (with afk/trolls/whatever).

    Seriously, for me, that's the only way it reached about 50% of win rate, aka: 2 LE Ying against each other. One wins, the other loses, that's the 50%!
    I've finally found it!

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