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Thread: Fix burst meta, increase ttk, #makepaladinsgreatagain

  1. #101
    Member Baronet
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    Quote Originally Posted by VisionaryWitch View Post
    Graph's are not a good presentation of how good said champion is, by that logic Ghrok is and has been the best Support by far, that would make Khan one of the worst tanks. And so on.

    EDIT: This is not to claim Drogoz isn't good. Context can be found in earlier posts.
    Hm Ghrok is a damage hybrid tho and that puts him in an entirely different league than other supports. He isn't bad at all either. There's a reason I compare only Damage champions between other Damage and Flank champion, and that's cause they are a lot, fill the same role, and are the "active" component of the roster. Supports and FLs are a lot more passive and defensive oriented, you can expect a normalized win rate for them (they are the stabilizers of the game and serve the purpose of tactical enhancement for damages and flanks) and a wild winrate deviation between damages and flanks reflecting their actual power.

    With this in mind, the hard data strongly reflects the power of champions when compared with other similar champions, and Drogoz still comes out as the absolute best damage/flank champion in the game. This is also warranted by the frustrating in game experience which, of course, could be distorted by your actual preferences (ie: my favourite champions have little problem against Dredge but that doesn't mean a FL main is wrong when asking for cooldown on Broadside), but generally everyone who is not being a hip or a fanboi agrees that the lizard is fucking bullshit and this game is better off without him. Ditto for Androxus who went from premium pick to press F to pay respect after Defiance fix and buff. The only redeeming factor being that Androxus is actually a moderately risky champion.

  2. #102
    Beta Player Prince GaoShun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M3RC3N4RI0 View Post
    If I am honest, Grohk is the only champ I have no idea, how he gets such a good winrate. He is potentially a very strong champ, but he is shit as main heal and he is at least 50% played as main heal and if he is played as damage he is often picked first so that team has no healer then. I'd prefer to have a Skye in my team.
    Why Grohk has a great winrate :THE Explanation.

    If you would turn the bettermeta table to "the most played" champions table, you will find Grohk players are the lowest number of players since the beginning of Paladins on Steam
    https://www.thebettermeta.com/charts...n_performance/ Popularity tab.

    Small number of dedicated players = better players and better players = more winrate. Simple logic.
    Healing Grohk is amazing tbh, but he needs a team that understand his limitations (Inara,Barik, Makoa). Flank meta is a direct opposition to Grohk's healing tho..

    Hirez tho... keeps nerfing cause of these small number of players keeps the winrate up. Hence Grohk popularity keeps getting lower and only spike up during patches with a buff to Grohk.
    Last edited by GaoShun; 10-08-2018 at 09:51 PM.
    thank you for curing my Paladins addiction

  3. #103
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M3RC3N4RI0 View Post
    What is good for Mutu is also good for me.
    :-D :-D :-D
    That's SO DAMN GREAT, I love it!!! Can I quote it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vijana View Post
    Hm Ghrok is a damage hybrid tho and that puts him in an entirely different league than other supports.
    That's the problem: once, ALL supports were able to deal a consistent amount of dmg. They only have to choose which aspect (heals/dmg) prioritize. That was GOOD GAME BALANCE.
    Now, except for a couple of them, whatever is not full-heals is not worth it, or heavily harassed. Usually, both.

    Ok, ok, I will learn Drogoz. But Grohk is actually great.
    I've finally found it!

    New to the forum? Have a look >>>here<<<! Some useful answers.

    #AggressiveSupports
    I'm tired of repeating the same things, watch this: link

  4. #104
    Beta Player Prince M3RC3N4RI0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaoShun View Post
    Small number of dedicated players = better players and better players = more winrate. Simple logic.
    Just no empiric proof. There is no correlation between (un-)popularity and winrate. The champion with the lowest popularity (lower than Grohk) is Moji and her winrate is shit.

    I think there might be an advantage for unpopular champs because the other players are not so used to play against them, how to counter them and stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    :-D :-D :-D
    That's SO DAMN GREAT, I love it!!! Can I quote it?
    Sure, lol.
    Last edited by M3RC3N4RI0; 10-09-2018 at 02:48 PM.

  5. #105
    Beta Player Prince GaoShun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M3RC3N4RI0 View Post
    Just no empiric proof. There is no correlation between (un-)popularity and winrate. The champion with the lowest popularity (lower than Grohk) is Moji and her winrate is shit.

    I think there might be an advantage for unpopular champs because the other players are not so used to play against them, how to counter them and stuff..
    I don't know where you get that data cause in the bettermeta chart. Moji isn't the lowest popularity flank... Buck/Talus are.
    And the lowest winrate flanker is Androxus.

    Well, Grohk is great when the team knows what works with him. Inara, Barik, Makoa and (defensive) Nando work well with a solo heal Grohk - Totemic Ward is an amazing LC, it counters a whole lot of composition i.e when your enemy picked Torvald + Seris - while playing him as a damage hybrid works very well too.
    So he is quite versatile and restrictive about team composition at the same time. Well, he doesn't work with a Drogoz on your team that's for sure
    thank you for curing my Paladins addiction

  6. #106
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M3RC3N4RI0 View Post
    Just no empiric proof. There is no correlation between (un-)popularity and winrate. The champion with the lowest popularity (lower than Grohk) is Moji and her winrate is shit.
    Let me say this clear: lately, Moji is everywhere and, the hell, how annoying they are. They can even snipe a flying Drogoz, huge aoe effect, spray random dmg and 0 skill required.
    Has she been buffed and I've missed the info?
    I've finally found it!

    New to the forum? Have a look >>>here<<<! Some useful answers.

    #AggressiveSupports
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  7. #107
    Member Baronet Luni8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    Let me say this clear: lately, Moji is everywhere and, the hell, how annoying they are. They can even snipe a flying Drogoz, huge aoe effect, spray random dmg and 0 skill required.
    Has she been buffed and I've missed the info?
    I think it's in 1.5 dev video, he mentions that they fix moji with her hitbox, the bug with scamper, and also her mobility around walls and corners. Not sure what that means, there was no detail.

  8. #108
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    I think she probably got a stealth-buff, there's no other explanation at how annoying she is lately.
    I've finally found it!

    New to the forum? Have a look >>>here<<<! Some useful answers.

    #AggressiveSupports
    I'm tired of repeating the same things, watch this: link

  9. #109
    Beta Player Prince M3RC3N4RI0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaoShun View Post
    I don't know where you get that data cause in the bettermeta chart. Moji isn't the lowest popularity flank... Buck/Talus are.
    https://www.thebettermeta.com/charts...n_performance/

    Click on "popularity". Moji with 6.7% has the lowest popularity. I didn't say she has the lowest winrate.


    @Valkure

    The stats are about ranked. I don't play casual. Now that I think about it I can't remember when I played vs Moji the last time. ^^'

    @Luni8
    Jayflare said they increased Moji hitbox size to that of Makoa. Scamper had a bug that she got hit if someone shoots where she has been during scamper. Jayflare also said she is the worst character in the game now, worse than Skye.
    Last edited by M3RC3N4RI0; 10-10-2018 at 05:09 AM.

  10. #110
    Beta Player Prince GaoShun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M3RC3N4RI0 View Post
    https://www.thebettermeta.com/charts...n_performance/

    Click on "popularity". Moji with 6.7% has the lowest popularity. I didn't say she has the lowest winrate.
    Ah that's where we differ, I look up overall graph not just this patch. Moji is the lowest pick this patch but overall she isn't. And her winrate overall is high on the graph only went down during patch 1.4 unlike Androxus who constantly on the bottom end.

    I read the graph the same way I read a sport team player chart I take overall graph and see the changes (as they get buffed and nerfed) Moji low pick started with the nerf to Toot and it went downhill in popularity (cause Toot Moji players deem her unusable) but her winrate rises (cause less noobs playing her), unlike Androxus' popularity who is always on top but his winrate is at the bottom (although rising thanks to his overbuff)

    https://www.thebettermeta.com/charts/legendaries/
    Here is a better look on things (although harder visually as there no graph) as we can see actual numbers how many times a champion being played and what LC is actually winning games (you can scroll down to see previous patches too)

    we can see the only Legendary card constantly in the 60% winrate region while still being commonly use is Grohk's Totemic Ward HOWEVER it is only use by a meager +/- 5000 Grohks (this number is constant every patch so technically I can say the users are Grohk mains) unlike the staggering 55% winrate of Scorch Nando from 70k Nandos that use it or the staggering less than 50% winrate Spirit Chosen Damba (who is a literal One Trick from this data as up to 80% Damba player use that LC)
    Note : - it is easier to achieve higher percentage with a smaller population, basic math stuff I guess -

    PS : The most balanced win rate LC champ is surprisingly Ying, seems all LC is viable on her.

    Also, now that this post has been written, and these champions with good winrate are not the META champions, Hirez/evilMojo will nerf them.
    Last edited by GaoShun; 10-11-2018 at 03:47 AM.
    thank you for curing my Paladins addiction

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