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Thread: Fix burst meta, increase ttk, #makepaladinsgreatagain

  1. #91
    Beta Player Baronet Ravielsk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jusey1 View Post
    Off the top of my head:
    -Inara (especially with Cripple).
    -Torvald (shield the person that Andro is targeting and can silence Andro, even through his reversal).
    -Furia (Beam will screw him over).
    -Mal'Damba (Stun and you're really good at dueling with flanks).
    -Jenos (Void Grip cancels his other two Nether Steps if you manage to catch him on the first step).
    This is the sort of nonsense that made me leave the game. All you gave here are circumstantial counters at best and pure luck at worst. These things cannot be used consistently nor are they going to be always available(you know because of bans and other team picking them before you). And even then all of this, as Valkure already explained, can be easily countered by Androxus simply by taking a 200 credit item/breaker against torvalds shield.

    Its the definition of bad balance when even supposed "counters" that require high amounts of skill(and a shitty opponent) still have only a 50% chance to work.

    Worst part is that this does not extend to only androxus, its just most visible with him. Similar complains can be levelled against the entirety of the DD and flank class, with the only difference being the severity of the problem. Meanwhile supports are supposed to be thankful they can "at least" heal, until cauterize comes into game(but we pretend that does not exist). Half the frontline class is straight up useless, but its OK because some niche team comps in e-sports justify them being this way.

    But you know what even if we were to concede that this is "perfectly balanced" its still not good as most players clearly do not enjoy the state the game is in right now. Looking at steam charts its clear the game cannot retain a player base.

    Instead it dying. September, August and July have been nothing but pure losses with a total loss of 4278 players. Meanwhile in the previous three months(June,May,April) the game gained just 2489 players. Meaning that what ever players the game gained it lost almost double of that. No matter which way you slice it, its self evident that the current state is not sustainable nor beneficial in any way.

    At this rate the game will be dead before the end of 2019, maybe sooner if the implement cross platform play.

  2. #92
    Beta Player Baronet
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    You want game to be balanced? roles to be more stable and more skills required? You want more people to be happy while playing and actually enjoy the matches? To not 4-0 stomp quick or get stomped? Less auto-free burst damage kills with Lex? *Hi-Rez HQ* BUT DID YOU SEE NEW EVENT SKINS AND THE FUN PEOPLE WILL HAVE BUT ONLY THOSE WHO PAID FOR EVENT! Because normal players will have literally nothing fun in this new event, Got cha! Now I sense another Moderator message about "Trolling" while expressing my honest opinion and as you can see, a true one
    Ying waifu

  3. #93
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    I swear, I love Ravielsk's posts. He is able to explain things so clearly and with such relaxed attitude, that I 100% envy him.
    How he can manage to keep the calm after SO MANY FUC***ING MONTHS OF REPEATING THE EXACT SAME THINGS AT THE EXACT SAME PEOPLE THAT SIMPLY DON'T WANT TO UNDERSTAND is beyond my comprehension.
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  4. #94
    Beta Player Viscount
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jusey1 View Post
    Off the top of my head:
    -Inara (especially with Cripple).
    -Torvald (shield the person that Andro is targeting and can silence Andro, even through his reversal).
    -Furia (Beam will screw him over).
    -Mal'Damba (Stun and you're really good at dueling with flanks).
    -Jenos (Void Grip cancels his other two Nether Steps if you manage to catch him on the first step).

    And so on. The thing about countering Androxus is pretty simple. You want to get rid of either his reversal and keep your distance or get rid of his Nether Step. (Doing the former will make it hard for him to reset his Nether Step). He's a sitting duck and easy to kill if his Nether Step is on cooldown. Plus, most CC will even cancel his Nether Step if he is in the middle of using it, and in some cases, you can stun him off a cliff (I've done that a lot as Mal'Damba).

    And even if he goes Resilience, you still cancel his Nether Step and such. Plus, that means he doesn't have Haven/Blast Shields so he's going to take full damage, and since he is pretty squishy. Shouldn't be too hard to focus him down due to him not having that extra DR.
    Dude Please... I don't need a run down of, how to counter androx.
    We are all aware how to counter this dude.
    We learnt how to kill him ages ago, and we gave him the lowest survival rate of all flanks.
    Now they give him all this hyped damage to his kit, and in certain match ups it is TOO MUCH of a hard counter.

    Consider his kit has DR while airborne, and speed after neather step is increased up to %50. If he has resilience when he gets stunned in the air, he can resume flight flight with the DR before falling to the ground.. So while in the air he is resistant to damage, while on the floor he is swift to dodge CC moves. Making locking and bursting him down a bit hard.
    But even though he can be countered, this dude can have near application of medium to high damage, Good zone in and out mobility to stay clear of Frontlines like Inara.

    He can return a potential unlimited amount of damage back out of reversal, doing much to counter certain ults and gives him additional ability to zone foes out from cover counter Term, Rukus, Tyra, and pocket protect an ally...

    He gets more damage in his magazine and faster application then most of the roster and then gets a no coodown punch that can also out dps some champs, an anti damage window and a powerful dash move, while some have no way to beat this guy other then run to cover shooting.

    The fact is, from game play and experience, I know that Androx is a bit of a weird character to balance, but this defiance, and reversal really need more though port into them other then damage combos.
    You telling me how to counter him is a void argument, as I am having to kill a huge amount of edge lords who just walk into my allies from the back and kill them 1 by 1.
    Nowadays there is so much ranged healing and protection that fuelling andro with a shield or amped damage is way to much to solo or even 2v1.
    I should not have to rely upon a handful of counter pick characters who can shut down the features of Androx, if taking those characters is another risk to my composition entirely.
    I'd rather see the damage performance of this champ be reduced in order to see him be impactful in other areas.

    If defiance dealt half damage but applied silence.
    Reversal always dealt 200 damage minimum for grater reversal damage/hit security.

  5. #95
    Beta Player Viscount
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaoShun View Post
    I am more angry since most Androxus that killed me actually missed most of his shots but he won cause he spam 700dmg punch while support's class gun only do 400-500dmg per shot.
    Even though he is out of all offensive capability, he can just dash up to you, with good movement speed and spam you down in several hits until you die, or he can reset and fly away.
    Either way, not much you can do as some characters.

  6. #96
    Beta Player Prince GaoShun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravielsk View Post
    Instead it dying. September, August and July have been nothing but pure losses with a total loss of 4278 players. Meanwhile in the previous three months(June,May,April) the game gained just 2489 players. Meaning that what ever players the game gained it lost almost double of that. No matter which way you slice it, its self evident that the current state is not sustainable nor beneficial in any way.

    At this rate the game will be dead before the end of 2019, maybe sooner if the implement cross platform play.
    3k loss in September? Was it the same patch of Koga appearance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AyyDimitri View Post
    Even though he is out of all offensive capability, he can just dash up to you, with good movement speed and spam you down in several hits until you die, or he can reset and fly away.
    Either way, not much you can do as some characters.
    yeah that is frustrating
    thank you for curing my Paladins addiction

  7. #97
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaoShun View Post
    3k loss in September? Was it the same patch of Koga appearance?
    I don't think Koga is the problem, I think that, considering every month new games appear, people have to choose where to invest time. They come back when patch is released, they check it, see it is not worth their time and find a better game to play.
    Just have a look at how many games have been released this and last month. Add to that school time (so, less free time for playing) and, of course, people have to establish how to waste their free time. Paladins is not top priority, it seems. And it would never be, if MM and balance wouldn't finally fixed.

    People are not having fun, that's all.
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  8. #98
    Beta Player Baronet
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaoShun View Post
    3k loss in September? Was it the same patch of Koga appearance?



    yeah that is frustrating
    I am also kind of a part of those who quit playing Paladins (logins only) and I know a lot of players who play Support role or Tank role got tired of always playing these two roles to flex and get wrecked by Burst Flankers (2-3-4) in QP, so they rather quit playing, tired of always 1-2 flank champion-mains to boss Tanks and Supports how should they play, and you would be surprised WHAT THEY EXPECT us-Tank/supp players to do(Example: our flanker flanks, his aim is shitty, die vs enemy Lex, I was busting my ass off to heal 2 tanks who were on point, and of course, guess who decided Shitty flanker to blame? Tanks and support both!) To start talking their professional tips and tricks, how should other non-flank players to play their roles that all are noobs except them( And we do not need to be pro players, to see by their gameplay/positioning/Ulting of not only flanker role but ALL roles, they deserve that Bronze rank which they placed in and to shut up, because a lot of those were even carried in Bronze 5 in party, shocking!). And I wouldn't mind if a really good/pro flanker gives some helpful/honest and critics tips, but to listen this bullshit from lv 8 Koga who mostly does Double kills with Ultimate and brags about it)... (So...Including myself, non competitive type of a player, but still reached my small goal in Ranked but otherwise just playing for fun) and I/we do not see much fun anymore. Roles are so unbalanced af and if you cannot see this, either players are new/ they only play one role. Muting every QP players in a match became really tiring (Mute all QP matches in general option should be already here). This was actually meant to be a short explanation of my point of view and also from my friends why people are leaving . Those who still play Paladins on daily basis and especially as supporter/FL, salute to you, you the real MVP.
    Last edited by Sloxi; 10-04-2018 at 07:25 AM.
    Ying waifu

  9. #99
    Beta Player Recruit VisionaryWitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vijana View Post
    Here, have some hard data

    Graph's are not a good presentation of how good said champion is, by that logic Ghrok is and has been the best Support by far, that would make Khan one of the worst tanks. And so on.


    EDIT: This is not to claim Drogoz isn't good. Context can be found in earlier posts.
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  10. #100
    Beta Player Prince M3RC3N4RI0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VisionaryWitch View Post
    Graph's are not a good presentation of how good said champion is, by that logic Ghrok is and has been the best Support by far, that would make Khan one of the worst tanks. And so on.
    Furia was better than Grohk after her release. Grohk is one of the best supports because he is the only support that can be played as damage, same as Furia after her release.

    Khan is an average tank. He is not as good as the frontline tanks, but he is better than the support tanks except Torvald.

    Usually the winrate statistic is similar to what I experience in ranked. I win more matches with Torv or Fernando than with Khan. Drogoz is a monster. If he is good he destroys everything, tanks, healers, damage, flanks. In addition he cannot be countered by all champs. What if your flank is a Moji? Or you have Tyra or Vivian as damage. He is the only champion which I'd say is a MUST ban.

    If I am honest, Grohk is the only champ I have no idea, how he gets such a good winrate. He is potentially a very strong champ, but he is shit as main heal and he is at least 50% played as main heal and if he is played as damage he is often picked first so that team has no healer then. I'd prefer to have a Skye in my team.

    All other champions I experience similar to what the statistic shows.

    Winrate is after all not carrying potential. It's just as important what happens, if the worst player of my team has this champ. If the worst player has Damba you are fucked. That's why his winrate is not good. I also suspect that players who usually don't play supports grab Damba because of his reputation as best main healer. What is good for Mutu is also good for me.

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