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Thread: Why the game is so unbalanced, how to fix balance issues.

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaoShun View Post
    Also, what we support players just want equal fighting chance, not meet a flank die because we can't fight it.
    And this is why I can't take you seriously. What you equate to a fighting chance, is probably a very unfair fight for the flank. You guys want it to be like it was, which basically means:

    1) Flanks can't burst as hard as they can right now.
    2) Supports have around 3k health.
    3) Supports can do more damage than they can now, while running a healing build.

    That extra 1000 health used to make a nice safety cushion if you positioned poorly or weren't paying attention, you could be taken by surprise and lose that 1000 health, and STILL have 2000 left to fight back with. You also had higher damage for free (without needing to invest in your build to get it) and in some cases a good CC. And also, in some cases, you could heal yourself (such as Grover). But at the same time, you don't want flanks to have any burst? Really?

    Now, about the end part (the whole 'not being able to fight it'). You are wrong, because a Support with a damage build can beat a flank. It wont happen all the time, there are times they will take you by surprise and they will kill you (as it should be), but if you position well and pay attention, they wont be able to get the drop on you, and you can kill them, if you are good enough.

    Yes, I know you don't like hearing that, but it is the truth. It takes more skill to counter a flank than it does to play some of them, which is why whining about flanks is usually reserved for the easy to use ones, like Moji, Zhin or Lex, whereas Androxus can kill you much faster, but that isn't an issue for you because it requires skill, right? Or maybe because you rarely meet a good one who drops you quickly, who knows.

    And that is the real issue you guys have, you hate the idea that some button mashing chump could best you so easily, it messes with your ego. But if you can't beat a button mashing chump, that is on you, because you do indeed lack the skill and game sense. The game gives you the options, the damage options for supports are NOT useless. They work.

    As I have said, the skill floor went up for supports when the meta was changed, and now you have to adapt if you want to consider yourselves as good supports. Other players can do it, which means there isn't a balance issue, just a skill issue. You can do it too, if you put the effort in and stop making excuses.

    At the end of the day, you wont get your way, other than very minor tweaks, so I'm not worried. But every time you guys try to insinuate there is nothing a support can do against a flank, I will be popping up to remind you that there is plenty you can do. I understand you don't like that, but too bad. I am not disagreeing with you just to mess with you, I am disagreeing because from my perspective, this isn't a balance issue.

    You guys can't even accept that you are supposed to die to a flank unless your team supports you or you figure out how to save yourself, because killing you is what they are designed to do. And you have options to save yourself, but you guys don't want to hear it. They counter you, so the deck is stacked in their favour, but you still have options to turn it around.

    You guys are like a TF2 Heavy whining that Snipers are OP, when in reality Snipers are DELIBERATELY designed to kill the Heavy.
    Last edited by Zalamael; 08-21-2018 at 01:05 PM.

  2. #92
    Beta Player Prince GaoShun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkas99 View Post
    ummm, wut? kk let me repeat it to you, i never said flankers should win all 1v1s, but against a healer that should happen. idk how you think thats contradictory.....
    I am saying if I caught a flank champion with their pants down, they should not be able to win. Because its pointless to play an FPS if you out play someone but lose anyway because your class already being pre-determine to die as soon as an enemy shot at you.
    What's the point of playing if there is always a "you gotta die" mark on our class.

    but your changing the subject here, we are talking about whether or not healers should be buffed to better deal with flanks. thats a no. but whether or not flanks should be nerfed since atm they can even 1v1 a damage head on, then yes they need a nerf. but not to the point where they cant deal with a healer.
    I just want 50-50 chance. If a flank flanked me, I lose, that's fair. But if he stupidly attacked me head on, I want a fair chance to win. And if I flanked him, the odds should be in my favor, right?

    I don't understand why is this so hard to understand
    thank you for curing my Paladins addiction

  3. #93
    Beta Player Prince GaoShun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zalamael View Post
    And this is why I can't take you seriously. What you equate to a fighting chance, is probably a very unfair fight for the flank. You guys want it to be like it was, which basically means:

    1) Flanks can't burst as hard as they can right now.
    2) Supports have around 3k health.
    3) Supports can do more damage than they can now, while running a healing build.

    That extra 1000 health used to make a nice safety cushion if you positioned poorly or weren't paying attention, you could be taken by surprise and lose that 1000 health, and STILL have 2000 left to fight back with. You also had higher damage for free (without needing to invest in your build to get it) and in some cases a good CC. And also, in some cases, you could heal yourself (such as Grover). But at the same time, you don't want flanks to have any burst? Really?
    No, this was you. You are the one that played Grover. You are the one that state you relied on your 3000 HP Grover back then.
    You are the one that think Support is easy to play.

    Also you are wrong to say flankers don't have any burst back then, cause Evie were doing 1100 per shot and can combo 2 shots at the same time with masters comboing 3 shots at almost the same time, Androxus has 600 damage / shots with head will roll still giving +50%dmg on headshots although people were running Dark Stalker, Skye can kills Makoa 6000Hp in 3-4 secs thanks to debilitate 30%extra damage
    Oh and Buck had 3000 HP too with 2 Jumps

    Now, about the end part (the whole 'not being able to fight it'). You are wrong, because a Support with a damage build can beat a flank. It wont happen all the time, there are times they will take you by surprise and they will kill you (as it should be), but if you position well and pay attention, they wont be able to get the drop on you, and you can kill them, if you are good enough.

    Yes, I know you don't like hearing that, but it is the truth. It takes more skill to counter a flank than it does to play some of them, which is why whining about flanks is usually reserved for the easy to use ones, like Moji, Zhin or Lex, whereas Androxus can kill you much faster, but that isn't an issue for you because it requires skill, right? Or maybe because you rarely meet a good one who drops you quickly, who knows.
    Do you even know flankers has internal damage reduction cards stacks? And No, I am not talking about flankers I faced because I am talking about flankers in tournaments.
    Comments coming from pros like Bitey (who are not biased) that stated flankers had too much survival ability cause their Damage Reduction stacked to the max.

    And that is the real issue you guys have, you hate the idea that some button mashing chump could best you so easily, it messes with your ego. But if you can't beat a button mashing chump, that is on you, because you do indeed lack the skill and game sense. The game gives you the options, the damage options for supports are NOT useless. They work.

    As I have said, the skill floor went up for supports when the meta was changed, and now you have to adapt if you want to consider yourselves as good supports. Other players can do it, which means there isn't a balance issue, just a skill issue. You can do it too, if you put the effort in and stop making excuses.
    So flankers were dumbed down and button mashing is okay.... but support players must "git gud". Can't you hide your bias just a little?

    Also, have you not even read the part I stated several times that for MONTHS tournament pros banned flank champions like Buck and Maeve
    thank you for curing my Paladins addiction

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaoShun View Post
    So flankers were dumbed down and button mashing is okay.... but support players must "git gud". Can't you hide your bias just a little?

    Also, have you not even read the part I stated several times that for MONTHS tournament pros banned flank champions like Buck and Maeve
    I don't have a bias. Like I have already mentioned, I can aim. I learned how to aim years ago, from watching videos, and by playing far more difficult games. I started out an utter noob, but I never begged the devs to make it easy for me. I played, got killed regularly, but I also watched and learned.

    I realised that jumping to the side in a game like Quake, was practically inviting my opponent to Rail me. So I stopped doing it. I realised that landing a Rail was much easier when your target jumped to the side, or used a jump-pad, and I learned. I never bogged myself down with balance excuses, because I was new to each game I played, and I reasoned that I would be bad initially.

    But at the same time, I didn't hide behind excuses, I never asked the devs to give me a crutch. I watched videos explaining how to aim, I bought a new dedicated FPS mouse to help improve my aim. Every time I failed, I always assumed it was my own fault. I never made excuses or begged the devs to carry me. I never asked for help, or special treatment, I never had a sense of fucking entitlement. I recognised that if other people could aim so accurately, then so could I, so I put the effort into getting that good. Instead of hoping the devs would make me mighty so I could bullshit myself that I was awesome while propping myself up with a fucking crutch.

    You guys are just losers begging for a handout. After the 1000s of words I have typed, all the bullshit I have spewed, if there was more to you, you would have shown it to me by now.

    But no, it is just the same fucking bullshit; you guys, begging to be OP to compensate for your lack of ability. I am not a huge fan of the burst meta (for reasons that are very different from yours), but I am actually happy the skill floor got raised so high, because it caught out you frauds, you pretenders who thought you were useful back when it was really easy, and now you RMB mashing chumps have to actually earn your participation trophy.

    I enjoy your pain, and I look forward to your rising anger when your begging gets you nothing. Learn to play, git gud etc. Because as we already know, talk is cheap on the forum. You will never get your own way. I like that.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zalamael View Post
    I don't have a bias.
    Hmmm, that is very interesting considering all your posts before, but OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zalamael View Post
    Like I have already mentioned, I can aim. I learned how to aim years ago, from watching videos, and by playing far more difficult games. I started out an utter noob, but I never begged the devs to make it easy for me. I played, got killed regularly, but I also watched and learned.
    And pray tell why exactly do you keep bringing this aiming nonsense here? Nobody(in this or any other thread) has ever brought aiming into question. Nobody here debates whether you or flank mains can, should or have to aim. Your personal aim and the concept in general is borderline immaterial to the discussion at hand. I dare you to post a quote or a link if you can prove otherwise.

    Or what you are now gonna tell me to "outaim" Lex so hard that miraculously I end up circumventing the fact his time to kill is 1,75 seconds and Yings is 2,5 seconds(assuming all shots hit)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zalamael View Post
    I realised that jumping to the side in a game like Quake, was practically inviting my opponent to Rail me. So I stopped doing it. I realised that landing a Rail was much easier when your target jumped to the side, or used a jump-pad, and I learned. I never bogged myself down with balance excuses, because I was new to each game I played, and I reasoned that I would be bad initially.
    Again utterly meaningless. You keep bringing up these personal stories of your but you seem to be unaware that these are stories of PERSONAL failings, as in those were mistakes you were making on your own. Thus you can fix them ON YOUR OWN.

    You cannot fix ON YOUR OWN that your team does not protect you. ON YOUR OWN you cannot fix your tanks positioning(constantly standing under fire and thus cauterize). You cannot fix the fact that you objectively need more time to kill than a flank(even with a damage build). These are mathematical problems not skill problems.

    Even by your own admission most solutions to problems supports have are not in the hands of supports. You can fix a positioning problem on your own, you cannot fix your whole team(four other people) to shield your ass while also adopting a "more aggressive" playstyle(BTW these are tips you gave yourself in this thread).

    Not to mention Quake and Paladins fall under two different genres of shooters, so using Quake as an example is a poor tactic at best.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zalamael View Post
    You guys are just losers begging for a handout. After the 1000s of words I have typed, all the bullshit I have spewed, if there was more to you, you would have shown it to me by now.

    But no, it is just the same fucking bullshit; you guys, begging to be OP to compensate for your lack of ability. I am not a huge fan of the burst meta (for reasons that are very different from yours), but I am actually happy the skill floor got raised so high, because it caught out you frauds, you pretenders who thought you were useful back when it was really easy, and now you RMB mashing chumps have to actually earn your participation trophy.
    Hello, here is Zalamael. just wanted to let you guys know I don't have a bias, its just that all of you are losers begging for a handout , you just want to be OP. It does not matter that not even one of you asked for anything close to OP. Yup no bias in this boys hearts. Bye, fucking losers.

    Also funny how your describe your own words as bullshit I have spewed. Bit of a freundian slip isn't it.

    Last edited by Ravielsk; 08-21-2018 at 03:29 PM.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravielsk View Post
    Hmmm, that is very interesting considering all your posts before, but OK.



    And pray tell why exactly do you keep bringing this aiming nonsense here? Nobody(in this or any other thread) has ever brought aiming into question. Nobody here debates whether you or flank mains can, should or have to aim. Your personal aim and the concept in general is borderline immaterial to the discussion at hand. I dare you to post a quote or a link if you can prove otherwise.

    Or what you are now gonna tell me to "outaim" Lex so hard that miraculously I end up circumventing the fact his time to kill is 1,75 seconds and Yings is 2,5 seconds(assuming all shots hit)?


    Again utterly meaningless. You keep bringing up these personal stories of your but you seem to be unaware that these are stories of PERSONAL failings, as in those were mistakes you were making on your own. Thus you can fix them ON YOUR OWN.

    You cannot fix ON YOUR OWN that your team does not protect you. ON YOUR OWN you cannot fix your tanks positioning(constantly standing under fire and thus cauterize). You cannot fix the fact that you objectively need more time to kill than a flank(even with a damage build). These are mathematical problems not skill problems.

    Even by your own admission most solutions to problems supports have are not in the hands of supports. You can fix a positioning problem on your own, you cannot fix your whole team(four other people) to shield your ass while also adopting a "more aggressive" playstyle(BTW these are tips you gave yourself in this thread).

    Not to mention Quake and Paladins fall under two different genres of shooters, so using Quake as an example is a poor tactic at best.




    Hello, here is Zalamael. just wanted to let you guys know I don't have a bias, its just that all of you are losers begging for a handout , you just want to be OP. It does not matter that not even one of you asked for anything close to OP. Yup no bias in this boys hearts. Bye, fucking losers.

    Also funny how your describe your own words as bullshit I have spewed. Bit of a freundian slip isn't it.

    At the end of the day, wading past all of the weird coward shit that you post, you are still a loser mate.

    Nothing you have said, makes me think you were a winner in disguise. You have been, and always are, a loser.

  7. #97
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    Well, since people decided to go out and attack each other, the thread is closed.

    Too bad, I was enjoying the debate.
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