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Thread: Curing Cancerous Casual Pips

  1. #21
    Beta Player Baron TheBaboom1's Avatar
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    One can say that Pip is a good/balanced champion but that's doesn't matter if majority of players do poorly with him
    ...What's Damba then?...
    Not every champion should be at the exact same skill level. A higher skill cap champion should give greater reward and vice versa.
    Pip requires practice, just like every champion. Have you never had another healer in your games who doesn't poorly?

    Pip is a support. So he has some similarities to Buck. So?
    He's a well made champion and is good as he is.
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  2. #22
    Beta Player Baronet Lugenpresse's Avatar
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    Facts:

    Pip heals the least out of the Support class:


    Pip deals the most damage out of the Support class:


    Pip gets the most killing blows out of the Support class:

  3. #23
    Beta Player Count undeadvillan's Avatar
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    Because every other Pip is a damage Pip. You see damage Pip way more frequently than any other healer being used as a damage.

  4. #24
    Beta Player Duke GaoShun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugenpresse View Post
    One can say that Pip is a good/balanced champion but that's doesn't matter if the majority of players do poorly with him. A champion's design must be relative to the average skill of the player base.
    there is enough catering to casuals through other champions, that's why Hi-Rez created easy support like Jenos and Seris

    I have lost countless matches because somebody locks in Pip and the rest of my team thinks they will be healed because we have a "Support", wrong. Pip ends with 15k heals or less 90% of the time and 90% of those heals will be on himself only.
    Not Pip's fault is the player is not playing him as support, same way with damage Jenos or Flank Seris, or sniper Maeve

    What is the difference between Pip's kit and Buck's kit? Almost nothing. Pip is the projectile version of Buck. With some slight modifications, Pip can just be reclassed as Flank where he has always belonged.
    Mega potion and AoE healing
    thank you for curing my Paladins addiction

  5. #25
    Beta Player Prince CatManDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugenpresse View Post
    [insert random charts here]
    And this means literally nothing. It's healing per second. The thing is, Pip has a high heal, on a long cooldown. No shit is he going to have healing on the lower end of things. The character is also a damage/support hybrid, so he's also going to have a higher amount of damage, since that's all you can be doing whilst you're waiting for you healing potion to come back from its cooldown. Which in turn means that he's going to have more elims/killing blows/damage. Mindlessly following charts is not going to be considered fact. Charts like this are going to be skewed, especially if some things aren't properly portrayed:

    • If it's out of the champion's usage worldwide, and not on the end of better players.
    • If it's properly showing the information you're trying to portray.
    • If the site that is gathering the information is even accurate.


    Everything on the charts for what they are (Healing per second/damage per second/kills) is properly portrayed due to the champion's design as a damage/support hybrid. Here's the reasons:
    • Burst heal on a long cooldown (Reason for low Healing per second)
    • Nothing to do whilst waiting for the cooldown to expire besides shooting (Reason for higher Damage per second)
    • Weirdly enough, having a period of time where you're just providing chip damage, is going to net some kills (Reason for more kills)


    So instead of just smacking random charts down and stating they're fact, you should invest some time into the character to learn how they work and what not, instead of just assuming what you want due to the bad grapes in the bunch. Pip is a difficult champion to learn, and is a champion that not everyone can play well. Playing any champion as a damage champion is always going to prove easier, due to the damage playstyle just being one that's much easier to pick up when you're only caring for yourself, and no one else on your team.


    Additionally, I think this thread is borderline nonconstructive. The original post is basically nearly calling this champion trash without providing any real reason for it, besides saying that players can't play him, which is just saying that people who play him are bad and what not.
    Protect your supports please... They want support too!
    Support main/Pip main. Greatest healing: 230,070 | Current goal: 200,000 achieved! Take a look at it! Woohoo!

    Just a silly idea

    Support Pip guide here!

    Fix the Pip bugs! There are 40 of them, so can we fix them please?

  6. #26
    Beta Player Baronet Lugenpresse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatManDude View Post
    And this means literally nothing. It's healing per second. The thing is, Pip has a high heal, on a long cooldown. No shit is he going to have healing on the lower end of things.
    It's not a long cooldown, it's 8 seconds base, the same cooldown as Jenos's celestial mark and Jenos players get more healing than Pip. Ghrok has a 15 second base CD on healing totem, which cannot be casted at range, and even Ghrok players heal more than Pip players.

    Quote Originally Posted by CatManDude View Post
    The character is also a damage/support hybrid, so he's also going to have a higher amount of damage, since that's all you can be doing whilst you're waiting for you healing potion to come back from its cooldown. Which in turn means that he's going to have more elims/killing blows/damage.
    You said it yourself, Pip will end up with more damage than healing therefore he's more of a damager than a healer. Which indicates that he's probably in the wrong class.

    To keep the Pip players happy, why not just keep Pip's kit and cards the same but also change his class title to "Flank" so the rest of us can stop expecting heals from the champion that's rarely played as a healer. It's ok to have a Flank who can heal. Moji can heal and is a Flank. Khan can heal and is a Front-Line. Pip can be the new Flank who can heal and nothing would change except the text under his class title. If not Flank, we can change his class title to "Damage", but "Support" just does not fit his average playstyle.

  7. #27
    Beta Player Prince CatManDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugenpresse View Post
    It's not a long cooldown, it's 8 seconds base, the same cooldown as Jenos's celestial mark and Jenos players get more healing than Pip. Ghrok has a 15 second base CD on healing totem, which cannot be casted at range, and even Ghrok players heal more than Pip players.
    You're comparing it to another support who also has a long cooldown. This argument is invalid. Take a look at the other supports who have a higher healing per second, their cooldowns are far shorter. And Jenos gets more healing, he can put out multiple that last longer (On a 5 second CD or shorter) as well as it being a healing over time which generates for more, but it's not as beneficial, due to a lot of it being useless healing. A pitiful 5 hp/s isn't going to keep someone alive. This is why his healing can seem as being inflated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugenpresse View Post
    You said it yourself, Pip will end up with more damage than healing therefore he's more of a damager than a healer. Which indicates that he's probably in the wrong class.
    You clearly disregarded that I said he was a HYBRID. Hybrid classes are a healthy thing for a game like this due to them allowing for more distinguished playstlyes for a champion, as well as some variety to help kill the monotony that playing a game like this can create. Look at TF2. There are characters that are classified as 'DEFENSE' but can be played as heavily aggressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugenpresse View Post
    To keep the Pip players happy, why not just keep Pip's kit and cards the same but also change his class title to "Flank" so the rest of us can stop expecting heals from the champion that's rarely played as a healer. It's ok to have a Flank who can heal. Moji can heal and is a Flank. Khan can heal and is a Front-Line. Pip can be the new Flank who can heal and nothing would change except the text under his class title. If not Flank, we can change his class title to "Damage", but "Support" just does not fit his average playstyle.
    That's not going to keep anyone happy. Just because you want him to be a flank, doesn't mean that he belongs there. At lower levels, this character isn't played as a healer due to players not knowing how to play him well. Once you get to higher levels of play, people will know how to play the character well, and going against a really good one is one of the scariest things that you can go up against. The support aspect of his kit is mostly what he has. He has two huge AoE abilities, which is usually defined by supports, and can heal teammates, and can do the job better than others who can occasionally give heals to their allies. Again, This isn't a problem with the character, and is more so an issue with those playing him poorly. You're the only one I've ever see want this, in order for Pip to be a flank, his kit would have to be completely gutted and reworked, because he simply does not work as a flank.
    Last edited by CatManDude; 07-05-2018 at 09:48 PM.
    Protect your supports please... They want support too!
    Support main/Pip main. Greatest healing: 230,070 | Current goal: 200,000 achieved! Take a look at it! Woohoo!

    Just a silly idea

    Support Pip guide here!

    Fix the Pip bugs! There are 40 of them, so can we fix them please?

  8. #28
    Beta Player Baronet Lugenpresse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatManDude View Post
    You clearly disregarded that I said he was a HYBRID. Hybrid classes are a healthy thing for a game like this due to them allowing for more distinguished playstlyes for a champion, as well as some variety to help kill the monotony that playing a game like this can create. Look at TF2. There are characters that are classified as 'DEFENSE' but can be played as heavily aggressive.
    I didn't disregard. I'm not saying hybrids are bad or that pip isn't a hybrid, of course he is. Hybrid or not, a champion excels more in one area than others and whatever that area is, is what defines that champion's class. Pip excels more at damage and killing blows than healing, therefore he should be in the Flank class.


    Quote Originally Posted by CatManDude View Post
    That's not going to keep anyone happy. Just because you want him to be a flank, doesn't mean that he belongs there.
    It's not because of what I want, it's because of what the truth is, and I've presented the facts and my reasoning. Please separate me as a person from my arguments and my arguments from the actual data I've fetched from thebettermeta.com.

    Quote Originally Posted by CatManDude View Post
    At lower levels, this character isn't played as a healer due to players not knowing how to play him well. Once you get to higher levels of play, people will know how to play the character well, and going against a really good one is one of the scariest things that you can go up against.
    Well if we balanced around what high level players do, then this game would be less fun and more difficult.

    Quote Originally Posted by CatManDude View Post
    You're the only one I've ever see want this, in order for Pip to be a flank, his kit would have to be completely gutted and reworked, because he simply does not work as a flank.
    Pip was originally a flank in the beginning. Instead of healing potion he used to have a CC skill called adhesive. Other than this change, his kit has mostly stayed the same so he did work as a Flank and he's still played as a flank today.

  9. #29
    Beta Player Baron TheBaboom1's Avatar
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    1. Pip is a great healer
    2. There are getting to be more and more heal Pips.
    3. Pip can't flank anyways

    Have you never seen a damage Damba or damage Seris. You not seeing heal Pip means literally nothing, just that people prefer to play him as a damage because most of the community mains damage or flank
    Top Damage on Makoa: 160k
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  10. #30
    Beta Player Prince CatManDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugenpresse View Post
    I didn't disregard. I'm not saying hybrids are bad or that pip isn't a hybrid, of course he is. Hybrid or not, a champion excels more in one area than others and whatever that area is, is what defines that champion's class. Pip excels more at damage and killing blows than healing, therefore he should be in the Flank class.
    Except he excels nowhere in the flank category. The thing is, with how flanks work now, they're high mobility burst damage dealers. Pip is far from that. Flanks also have high sustain, either due to mobility, or some other abilities on their kits, which is something that Pip doesn't have due to not really having a way to negate cauterize. Moxie helps, but not a lot. He excels in healing, and dealing chip damage while waiting for the potion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugenpresse View Post
    It's not because of what I want, it's because of what the truth is, and I've presented the facts and my reasoning. Please separate me as a person from my arguments and my arguments from the actual data I've fetched from thebettermeta.com.
    You're the only one I've ever see request this change; so it's mostly what you want. Also, bettermeta is completely irrelevant to me, especially when most of the stuff in there is blanket usage. And if that's the case, that doesn't net accurate results. Furthermore, a lot of the data you have, has its reasons which you don't seem to want to understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugenpresse View Post
    Well if we balanced around what high level players do, then this game would be less fun and more difficult.
    That's how the game is done for the most part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugenpresse View Post
    Pip was originally a flank in the beginning. Instead of healing potion he used to have a CC skill called adhesive. Other than this change, his kit has mostly stayed the same so he did work as a Flank and he's still played as a flank today.
    Pip was originally a damage dealer. His kit has also drastically changed. The old Adhesive ability was a supportive area denial skill, which is why this was changed in favor of a healing potion, to secure his place into the support category. And I can assure you, nobody seriously plays Pip as a flank, especially at higher levels of play, because it doesn't work.
    Protect your supports please... They want support too!
    Support main/Pip main. Greatest healing: 230,070 | Current goal: 200,000 achieved! Take a look at it! Woohoo!

    Just a silly idea

    Support Pip guide here!

    Fix the Pip bugs! There are 40 of them, so can we fix them please?

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