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Thread: Make Seris more intresting

  1. #1
    Beta Player Viscount KicsitCsicska's Avatar
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    Make Seris more intresting

    Hi!
    Omenya proposed me to start rather a new thred about the same theme instead of edit the original too much times.
    My problems with Seris:
    -The healing ability is too easy
    -She can escape too easy by using the op Shadow Travel cards
    -Her Heal cd decreaser card is op, so every Seris use it on lvl5 and just heal all the time
    -Enemy cauterize isn't kills only her ally healing but her only defending skill too
    -Her dmg Talents are weak since the HP nerf, not like e.g. Ying's dmg talents



    Shadow Travel balance:

    Skill:
    Reduce the basic cast time from 1.5s to 1.2s

    Cards:
    Veil: Reduce the cast time reducing from 15% to 10% per level
    Dark Whisper: Reduce the movement speed bonus from 20% to 15% per level
    Fade to Black: Reduce the Shadow Travel cd reducing from 0.8s/Soul Forge activating/level to 0.6s/Soul Forge activating/level
    Dust Walker: Reduce the cd of Shadow Travel by 1s/lvl instead of 0.5s/lvl
    Nether Siphon: Increase the healing value from 50/lvl/s to 80/lvl/s



    -Rend Soul rework:

    Skill:
    Rend Soul: Detonates deal 150dmg and regenerates herself by 150. Cd: 10s. (regeneration doesen't decrease by cauterize, the current healing is 330/detonate)

    Card:
    Essence rip: Increase Rend Soul's efficiency by 8% per level. Not just the regenerating but the damage too.



    -Extra card ideas:

    Bane is an other healer card, what's efficiency is low too. Soul Forge can reduce the Restore Soul's cd much better. So I change its bonus to increase the healing so high scale to destroy cauterize sometimes (like Furia's Soar Blessing).

    Bane: Increase the first Restore Soul's healing efficiency after Rend Soul by 200%/lvl

    Soceress have been buffed, but still useless. Seris don't need any reload time reduction, she have got ammo count increaser card and ammo generator too. The new one could increase the ultimate charge, what is a very popular tactic by using Morale Boost.

    Soceress: Every Soul Charge you detonate increases your ultimate charge by a bonus 0.25%/level

    Dark Sight gives the bonus so rarely, especially after its cd increase purpuse. So I would give to it an other bonus too:

    Dark Sight no1: Also reduce the target's healing by 75% over the duration.
    Dark Sight no2: Rend Soul Reveals enemies affected with Soul Charges for {0.5|0.5}s, and increase the lifetime of Soul Charges by the same duration.



    -Talents' buffs:

    After her HP nerf, the dmg talents need buffs. These talents were so rarely used too, not like other supporters non-healing talents.

    Agony: It stuns with 3 soul charge detonate instead of 4.

    Soul Collector: The increasing per soul increased to 2,5% instead of 2%. (+20% bonus with the max 8 stacks)

    Mortal Reach: Increase the range of Restore Soul by 300% and the Duration by 0.6s instead of 1s. (This increases the duration by 50%)
    (This nerf is because she can heal from a safer place what will be more important, read in the Defence change point below. And her healing efficiency will be higher, read in Restore Souls point)



    -Restore Souls:

    Soul Forge: Reduce the cd reducing from 0.5s/level to 0.3s/level
    Spirit Leech: Reduce the ammo generating from 2/0.5sec healing/level to 1/0.5sec healing/level
    Reduce the ticks time from 0.15s to 0.1s and the duration time of the skill from 1.5s to 1.2s (same 200heal per tick)



    -Defence change:

    She recieves 30% increased damage for 1.2s after activating Restore Soul (even if she stops the skill)
    Increase her max HP by 200
    //this change could increase her force in fights, but she could heal much more careful, not just blind heal spamming like now.



    If you agree with some points also read my other article about Mal'Damba: http://forums.paladins.com/showthrea...is-other-faces
    Last edited by KicsitCsicska; 06-22-2018 at 08:36 PM. Reason: Bane change to stay belong to Restore Soul

  2. #2
    Beta Player Marquess Genavelle's Avatar
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    I think this would make Seris really bad. and honestly nobody is going to play a healer that gets PUNISHED for healing. And if you did pick her, your team would probably rage at you and throw the game because they assume you're never going to heal, or you'll just die all the time.

    Shadow Travel is not OP. It's very predictable, and if you can force a Seris to use it, that means she's not healing anybody. Flanks can easily follow her and wait for it to end (and then she has no defenses left). And honestly, seris NEEDS the reduced cast time to survive against most flanks now. Seris took an HP nerf, while a lot of Flanks have crazy DPS right now. You try surviving a Lex without reduced cast time on shadow travel.

    I don't mind the changes to Soul Collector or Agony, but I doubt anyone would use them. I use Agony, but lately its causing me to lose matches because my teammates rage so much that they will literally throw the game over it (even if we were winning 3-1). I don't think the change to Mortal Reach is very good. I think that the extra second of healing is the only thing that really makes it somewhat useful. Honestly, I just don't think Seris needs extra range. Her normal range is already good, and most maps have too many walls and obstacles for you to be really far away, since you need Line of Sight. Plus, the further you are from your team, the easier it is for flanks to pick you off.

  3. #3
    Beta Player Marquess FluffyRuff's Avatar
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    I disagree with the mortal reach change, leave the extra second alone it's fine.

    This isn't making her interesting, this is just mostly nerfing her cause golds and lower don't know what they're doing.

    The defense change you mentioned at the end does sound pretty cool too and similar to furia (dmg boost for 1.2).
    Last edited by FluffyRuff; 06-20-2018 at 12:50 PM.

  4. #4
    Beta Player Baron engi40's Avatar
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    the first card nerfs/buffs were not needed, it would do fuck all to the nerfed cards and make the buffed cards op.
    rend soul rework is decent but buffing the damage would make it too strong perhaps.
    bane and dark sight reworks would make the cards more useful.
    nd the legendary changes are fine except for the mortal reach change, it would nerf a card that already needs a buff
    reducing soul forges cooldown to 0.25 per lvl is literaly killing seris if you want it reduced 0.4 per lvl is good enought.
    and the defence nerf is just dumb, it would punish seris for healing when usualy she has problems of healing by just having a flank up her ass all the time.

  5. #5
    Beta Player Viscount KicsitCsicska's Avatar
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    Thank you all for writing!

    I think the increasing dmg with rend Soul, Rend Souls regeneration, what can not be decreased by caut and her higher basic HP could counteract her healing punish. I also changed this healing: it will have shorter duration and much higher heal/time and also higher heal during the shorter time! It makes this skill realy good! (now: 2000heal/1.5s, after: 2400heal/1.2s) I've created this punish because Seris is just heal blind, she don't have to concentrate as much as e.g. Damba or Jenos. Her healer ability also has no aim, this is so boring to heal as her. But with punish you should look around well before healing sb!

    You can not make a good Seris loadout without the Shadow Travel cards: it means these are op. But if you all think, this nerf is just killed her, I could reduce the basic cast time! SOLVED

    You see: Her heal/time are hard buffed in the proposal, and she could heal from further much more safety, bec of the punish, The Mortal Reach could become OP bec of much more heal in the 1s bonus and can heal from a safe place. This is why I wanna nerf her. Without these changes it is OK right now. But I can lower this nerf a little

    Soul Forge halves the cd on lvl4. This is insane: there are no other cards in Paladins what can reduce cd as high scaled! This card is the problem of her infinite borning heal too, and this is an OP card too: You can not make a good Seris loadout without this card on high lvl. But I can alleviate the nerf a little. COMPROMISE
    Last edited by KicsitCsicska; 06-20-2018 at 01:39 PM.

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    Beta Player Marquess Genavelle's Avatar
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    I mean, Seris is a healer. Nerfing her healing & escape abilities will not make her "more interesting", it will just make her plain bad. Punishing her with extra incoming damage after healing someone is ridiculous, because her primary objective is to heal her teammates. Implementing something like that would really just kill Seris as a champion- nobody is going to pick a healer that is punished for healing.

    Yes, Seris's heals are quick and easy. But she already has a lot of downsides that other healers don't have. Seris cannot do anything else while she is healing someone. She cannot defend herself, she cannot attack enemies, she cannot use her escape skills, she cannot ulti. She constantly has to choose between "Do I save myself or save X person?", "Can I ulti, or does someone need a heal?", "If I shadow travel right now, is anyone going to die from lack of heals?". Every other Support can be on the offensive while still healing their team, except Seris. This is the downside to her low CDs and easy aimbot heals- she is essentially a sitting duck while healing.

    Plus, people are so uptight about Void Abides, that if you pick other cards, people are liable to throw the game because you didn't take Void Abides. So if you reduced Seris's healing and survivability, people would probably rage and throw the game just for someone picking Seris over another healer anyway.
    The Stone Oracle of Blades

  7. #7
    Beta Player Viscount KicsitCsicska's Avatar
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    We are agree in her problems: she is a sitting duck all the time. Her healing ability is easy.
    But she can stops healing whenever to escape or use ulti, or anythink else. I do it sometimes too, when it is important.
    In her current form she:
    -Heals and don't do anythink elsa during this time. 1.5s healing and an other 1.5s for do anythink else with The Void abides and Soul Forge V. My proposal could change it: 1.2s heals and 2.5s for any other think: She could deal more dmg, ect... More time when not just healing. She could heal a little less often, but heals 20% more! (2400 instead of 2000)
    -If she discover any enemy flank too close she have got one but very safty possibility: Hide with Shadow travel. Even if she is healing: stops healing and after press F. With my proposal this could be change, this situations would be more critical: She could kill the flank with the upgraded Rend Soul if she see him/her. But if she doesen't discover the flank, she certainly dies. Seris players should watching well the enemies around! it would be at stake. Now It's almost never mind: just press F. This could be the more intresting thing what is the title about.

  8. #8
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    I am perplexed. The thread asks to make Seris more INTERESTING, then a long list of presumed OPness (which are not) is written, then a long list of nerf.
    If you want to ask huge nerf on a support that one of the almost-decent one, at least be honest with your title.

    Seris is ok as she is. The only change she could need is a really working dmg LC.
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  9. #9
    Beta Player Viscount KicsitCsicska's Avatar
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    I have explaind in my last comment why could this make her more intresting. Read back.
    I realy want to balance ber cards, this is why there are many card nerfs. There are card buffs too.
    If you think these card (Soul Forge, Veil, ect) aren't op, just show your loadout: op cards are in everybody's loadout.
    I proposed a hard dmg buff, a caut immunity selfhealing and a HP buff too. Why are you writing about Seris nerf? She is not balanced, but the most primitive supporter, how just w8 all the time for end the healing.
    And I also wrote about talent balance, so there are the balanced dmg Talent what did you write about. I think it worked well before her HP nerf, I loved it. And it will be cool again, because of my buffs.
    Last edited by KicsitCsicska; 06-21-2018 at 06:24 AM.

  10. #10
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    There's something you aren't getting (feel free to check my loadout, I don't hide them from anyone). The fact I need to waste 5 tiers on my only escape skill just to avoid being killed while performing it, doesn't scream OPness, but bad skill.
    It is like "oh, who cares about supports HP nerf, just put 5 tiers in their card that give them more HP". If I am FORCED to use a card to make my champ decent, then we have a problem called UPness.

    Seris is quite shit: cauterize simply destroys her and, if she's not picking Agony (destroyed by Resonance), she's totally useless in whatever role that is not healing bot. Her usual dmg amount is 30k in long games and you are asking for other nerf.
    What does she needs? A way not to be 100% useless as soon as Cauterize exists. But there's no need for her to wave her already average kit goodbye. She needs to improve, not to trade. It is like asking 100dps buff on Skye, but slowing her down and removing her stealth: it just doesn't work.

    Do you want to create a more interesting Seris? Put in her kit something that could make her useful for the team NOT WHILE HEALING, without lowering her only pro (healing). So the player should learn to balance her heals/dmg output. That's what makes a champ interesting. Not removing her only survivability.

    PS: you wrote "-Talents' buffs:" and then you enlisted the following nerf:
    Mortal Reach: Increase the range of Restore Soul by 300% and the Duration by 0.6s instead of 1s.
    Soul Forge: Reduce the cd reducing from 0.5s/level to 0.3s/level
    Spirit Leech: Reduce the ammo generating from 2/0.5sec healing/level to 1/0.5sec healing/level

    I don't know, you keep writing supports rework threads, and it seems to me you are simply not playing them.
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