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Thread: Nobody plays Support / Frontliner

  1. #121
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SocraticPhoenix View Post
    Now go play support for hours on end and tell me how many times you receive help from being flanked.
    Nah, don't say this. They ALWAYS get help and they ALWAYS help their supports.
    No, I don't believe it, neither. But that's the answer you'll get.
    I've finally found it!

    New to the forum? Have a look >>>here<<<! Some useful answers.

    Let them see how a game with shit-nerfed supports is.

  2. #122
    Beta Player Baronet HayShark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    :-D :-D :-D
    They already have a weaker dmg output, for they have only a single ability able to deal dmg.

    Guys, seriously, I LOVE how people are openly saying they don't want to play in a balanced game (of course, being on the advantaged side), without any shame!!!
    Go and play chess with 10 queens, then.
    "I picked the class that doesn't focus on dealing damage and am upset/angry that they don't deal damage."

    I have openly stated before that my two most-played and favorite classes are Front Line and Support. However, I know what defines and balances a Support within the context of a class-based team-based shooter such as Paladins. You, on the other hand, don't seem to be the same way. Go ahead and play other class-based shooters like TF2 and Overwatch. Then go play some MOBAs like LoL and DOTA. Then you come back here and tell me what balances a Support and what sacrifices Supports make to compensate for the strengths they possess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zio_Xeno View Post
    The buffs that i wrote are the things that allowed damba to 1v1 with a flank, same for jenos. Grover needs higher normal attack, and less scaling damage, what she says is right and the being able to fight 1v1 means that you have balanced chances of winning, not that the healer needs to be a damage.
    Being able to 1v1 a Flank as a Support champion would be unfair to the Flank honestly. The Flank navigated the map, caught you off-guard, and is doing their job. Their class makes sacrifices for their strengths just as Supports should. Taking those strengths and then saying "Oh, I see you have high burst damage but rely on getting close with the element of surprise on your side. Lol no. You still have a 50:50 matchup" is just not ok.

    Grover is honestly fine design-wise. His primary fire allows him to fill the niche of a ranged backline Support better than anyone else and I feel as if taking that away or changing that would be worse for the character as a whole.

    Quote Originally Posted by stesc5 View Post
    I agree here partly.
    Supports need a little damage buff, but another option imo would be to upping their health and adjust the price of caut up or make it less impactfull.
    I don't feel like Supports need a damage buff. Instead of mitigating their weaknesses, why not increase their strengths? Upping the average health would be a better alternative that raising their damage in that it would overall improve their 1v1 potential (even though they shouldn't be good at that anyways) and it would make them slightly less susceptible to Flanks (though they still should trend towards a losing correlation against a Flank doing their job correctly). Instead of upping the price of Cauterize I'd personally just lower the % of healing it blocks. 90% is a bit too high and it really devalues the effort a Support player puts forth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    DDs and flankers got high dmg buff. If we want supports to stay alive longer (to heal) and be effective, we need to re-balance them, remembering that DDs and flankers got high dmg buff. Just this.
    Then just slightly buff the health on Supports to make them a bit heftier. Buffing their damage output isn't the right way to make them "stay alive longer (to heal) and be effective".

    Quote Originally Posted by Zio_Xeno View Post
    Correction, you have to make them survive but you are not a babysitter, you need to do things too, noone will stay full health if the enemy damages are alive, in that situation you can heal what you want but your tanks are going to die. The flanks need to kill backline and then you can heal and help against the other enemies
    Supports should be doing other things, true. But our current supports do do other things. Dealing with enemy Flanks/Damages is not your job nor should it be something you go 50:50 with them on. Those guys are meant to be dealt with by your own teams Flanks/Damages both from design and from balancing perspectives. Instead, Supports help in a myriad of ways other than healing. Pip provides a decent AoE presence and one of the strongest slowing abilities in the game. Mal'Damba provides an on-demand stun and a large AoE damaging/healing pool that can even slow with the right Legendary. Seris has good self-sustain and also carries the capacity to stun enemies with her Agony Legendary. And all three of these champions have an ult with high CC that's invaluable. Even if the opposing team buys Resilience, now your Damages/Flanks are going to be dealing 21% more damage than they would've been previously (depending on damage type composition of course). That's pretty big IMO because, at the very least, you can still use these CC abilites to cancel other abilities and a good amount of ults. Meaning that, at the very least, they're still pretty damn useful to have. Supports don't need to have a high damage output to be doing other things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    How am I supposed to heal my comrades, if I spend my time in respawn for flankers too dmg-buffed and none in my team helping?
    And please, don't start with "your team must help". Yes, and no one should be dead by starvation, but still...

    So, let's get real, for once.
    It's not the fault of the game that the players aren't communicating with each other and have no team synergy. It's pretty apparent that Hi Rez wants this game to be competitively viable at high-level play. As such, it needs to be balanced around the fact that good teams and good players will be communicating with each-other whenever possible and will have good teamplay. Balancing a competitive game around the more casual players leads to gross imbalances at high-level play. Every individual on your team should be doing their best to win, and that means communicating and playing for the benefit of the team. If they aren't, then those teammates didn't deserve that TP/ELO/Victory and it's unfortunate that you got taken down with them. That's assuming you're doing your job correctly as well, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by SocraticPhoenix View Post
    For people saying supports are fine because it is a team game: yes, you're right.

    Now go play support for hours on end and tell me how many times you receive help from being flanked. I bet you'll be able to count that number on one hand. The only solution to this is to play on comms with a tank you trust...
    I've played Support for hours on end and even though I don't receive assistance as often as I'd like (still a decent amount though. Helps that I queue with players who communicate.) I do have a few tips for not dying to a Flank. Be aware, call out missing enemies (much like how players ping for missing enemies in MOBAs), don't let your guard down. If you do these three things and get a habit of doing them religiously then you will find the number of times you get flanked cut drastically. Ultimately, you are responsible for your own survival in any game. Your team should be doing their best to assist in that endeavor, but if you die then there was likely something you could've done to either reduce the chances of that happening, or to have prevented it entirely. That's the honest truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by SocraticPhoenix View Post
    Supports are not designed properly for a game where most players do not communicate or readily play cohesively as a team.
    Yeah, and that's kind of how they should be designed. If you choose a class that's reliant on teamwork and is aimed at being powerful as a whole rather than at an individual level then... play to your strengths as best you can.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    Nah, don't say this. They ALWAYS get help and they ALWAYS help their supports.
    No, I don't believe it, neither. But that's the answer you'll get.
    At the level most of us play at... no, no they don't. But this game isn't designed around solo-queue's with no team composition or teamwork. It's designed around teams working together to achieve a common goal and no classes exemplify this in any game better than the Supports and the Front Liners. They are the walking embodiment of that concept. If you're tired of not receiving assistance then pick a Flank. Pick a class that is entirely self-reliant because Supports nor Front Liners are/should ever be that type of class.
    Last edited by HayShark; 02-23-2018 at 10:55 AM.
    Champions I Main/Enjoy

    Front Line
    My forte.
    Working on an Inara

    My secondary class.
    Working on a Mal'Damba

    I'll flex Damage as necessary.
    Vivian (Everyone has a Vivian, let's be real)

    Please don't make me play Flank. I'm trash at all of them.

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