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Thread: Congratulations hi-rez

  1. #31
    Member King Valkure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noobersauce View Post
    You can say stuff like "Vast majority of diamonds and masters are quite shit at the game." all you want but it doesn't make it true.
    Quoting you: <You can say stuff like "Vast majority of gold and plat are quite shit at the game." all you want but it doesn't make it true.>. Do you realize that many stopped playing ranked when CU went live and that, if you don't play, you simply lose ranks till GOLD 5? Oh, funny! We have many super good players at gold 5. I wonder how this has happened :-O

    Quote Originally Posted by noobersauce View Post
    Do you know why they are better ? Because they are just able to consistently play better and win more games.
    Read the rant thread and the two threads on MM conundrum. And then let's speak about champs. Do you realize that some champs (ex: Vivian or Lian) can easily carry a game, while it's FAR MORE DIFFICULT for, don't know, a Seris? And that, for some stupid DD or flank main, crying as babies for being unable to one-shot a support, supports have been CONTINUOUSLY nerfed? Just to say. Hmmm, it seems to me your theory is not going so good :-/
    And then we can speak, as already stated, about trolls, feeders, afk, random disconnection (being kicked out from the ranked game 5 times, myself!), drop hack, cheaters, etc, etc, etc. If you think that this has no impact on the skill a player has... I don't know how many skill I need to compensate for 2 akf in my team (2 at the same time. Happened twice) or against a drop hack...
    But you're right: I need to improve, I need to do an examination of conscience, recognize my limits and develop some sort of psychic power that will allow me to prevent disconnections and drop hack with the only force of my mind! ^^
    Oh, THANK YOU SO MUCH, for helping me in finding the right way! ^^

    Yep, because when someone doesn't want to understand, there's nothing except irony. -_-'
    Just for you to know, with provisional: I was placed Silver 2 in main account and Platinum 1 on secondary. The exact same person, playing the exact same champions with the exact same party mate.
    But on secondary I didn't get afk, trolls, feeders, drop hack and so on. Well, I got less, to be honest, because I've found this shit also there.
    And now, tell me about skill.
    I got games with most kills/elim/dmg/heals/obj time with A SUPPORT, but was unable to win on my own. So, my team loses, and even if I am the best player in the group, I have to lose TP for this system only accounts for W/L rate.
    And you know what? These are the reasons why I stopped play ranked. I play only 1 game every two weeks, just to avoid decay. And I would not join next season, at least till they star to reconsider TP loss due to teammates leaving and balance. If I win only if I carry, I MUST be able to carry with whatever champ.

    What I see everyday? Random average players been lucky with MM, or playing in games where people were exploiting it, that got ranked high and cannot recognize they are just average at the game. And they never say that MM or MMR or cheaters and so on... in shorts, THINGS are not working as intended, because they would lose the sense of accomplishment in having reached a higher rank!

    All the following posts about "luck doesn't exist/affects only 10% of games", feel free to pick the previous lines as an answer for all of you.
    Last edited by Valkure; 02-13-2018 at 03:38 AM. Reason: typo
    I've finally found it!

    New to the forum? Have a look >>>here<<<! Some useful answers.

    They read it! >>>here<<<

    MM community questions are here! >>>here<<<
    And how the MM seems to work, by Epplz >>>link<<<


    Revert the nerf. And see the Math. link

  2. #32
    Member Knight noobersauce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    Quoting you: <You can say stuff like "Vast majority of gold and plat are quite shit at the game." all you want but it doesn't make it true.>. Do you realize that many stopped playing ranked when CU went live and that, if you don't play, you simply lose ranks till GOLD 5? Oh, funny! We have many super good players at gold 5. I wonder how this has happened :-O
    I'm aware of decay but I'm not sure what point it is that you're trying to convey. Are you trying to say that there are good players in gold and plat or bad players in gold and plat ? Because according to your earlier statement, which was "Vast majority of gold and plat are quite shit at the game." it implies that you think they are bad.
    But now it seems like you're saying they are good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    Read the rant thread and the two threads on MM conundrum. And then let's speak about champs. Do you realize that some champs (ex: Vivian or Lian) can easily carry a game, while it's FAR MORE DIFFICULT for, don't know, a Seris? And that, for some stupid DD or flank main, crying as babies for being unable to one-shot a support, supports have been CONTINUOUSLY nerfed? Just to say. Hmmm, it seems to me your theory is not going so good :-/
    Obviously some champions are better at carrying games then others. (I do find it funny how, when you were naming champions that can carry you quoted Vivian and Lian instead of Makoa or Ash. Not saying it's relevant but it shows what level you play at)
    And if you want to get out of lower ranks by carrying the games you'll have to pick one of those champions. Nobody is telling you to carry your games with ying or seris.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    And then we can speak, as already stated, about trolls, feeders, afk, random disconnection (being kicked out from the ranked game 5 times, myself!), drop hack, cheaters, etc, etc, etc. If you think that this has no impact on the skill a player has... I don't know how many skill I need to compensate for 2 akf in my team (2 at the same time. Happened twice) or against a drop hack...
    But you're right: I need to improve, I need to do an examination of conscience, recognize my limits and develop some sort of psychic power that will allow me to prevent disconnections and drop hack with the only force of my mind! ^^
    Oh, THANK YOU SO MUCH, for helping me in finding the right way! ^^
    You realise we are all playing the same game right ? That means statistically we all have the same chance of facing these hurdles while climbing up ranks as you do. That means everybody who has managed to climb to higher ranks would have had to face all the hardships that you're talking about. You are not any more or less likely than anyone else to run into those kind of problems. (Expect for the fact that maybe the higher your rank is, you'll face these problems less because the players you will be matched with will be less likely to troll/afk)


    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    Yep, because when someone doesn't want to understand, there's nothing except irony. -_-'
    Just for you to know, with provisional: I was placed Silver 2 in main account and Platinum 1 on secondary. The exact same person, playing the exact same champions with the exact same party mate.
    But on secondary I didn't get afk, trolls, feeders, drop hack and so on. Well, I got less, to be honest, because I've found this shit also there.
    When you've read my posts about this topic I'm sure you've noticed one term that I use quite often. It's "winning consistently" That's what separates the players at higher ranks. The ability to win consistently.
    And you said it yourself. On both accounts you eventually faced the same number of trolls/afkers. That means everybody had faced the same amount of those things. Everybody. And the people at higher ranks have been able to climb DESPITE that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    And now, tell me about skill.
    I got games with most kills/elim/dmg/heals/obj time with A SUPPORT, but was unable to win on my own. So, my team loses, and even if I am the best player in the group, I have to lose TP for this system only accounts for W/L rate.
    And you know what? These are the reasons why I stopped play ranked. I play only 1 game every two weeks, just to avoid decay. And I would not join next season, at least till they star to reconsider TP loss due to teammates leaving and balance.
    A loss is a loss. No matter how well you play. And if you were confident in the way you played that match then you should be satisfied with your performance and move onto the next game. I'm sure you'd be able to rank up if you played ranked more often. You posts say that you play competently enough. Maybe give ranked a try? And expect losses. Because they are inevitable. But you should be able to rank up eventually provided you win consistently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    If I win only if I carry, I MUST be able to carry with whatever champ.
    IMO that's expecting a bit too much. You can't reasonably expect every champion to be at the level and have the ability to carry games. The reason paladins is so interesting is because of the different roles that exist. And depending on the role of the champion some champions are just more suited to carrying than others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    What I see everyday? Random average players been lucky with MM, or playing in games where people were exploiting it, that got ranked high and cannot recognize they are just average at the game. And they never say that MM or MMR or cheaters and so on... in shorts, THINGS are not working as intended, because they would lose the sense of accomplishment in having reached a higher rank!
    It's easy to discredit other people's effort with a few words. Especially when you don't actually know what they had done to get to that higher level. It's easy but it's certainly not right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    All the following posts about "luck doesn't exist/affects only 10% of games", feel free to pick the previous lines as an answer for all of you.
    None of your previous lines answer that. Anecdotal evidence is hardly evidence. And I don't think that's the point that people are trying to make (It's not the point that i'm making at any rate)
    The point i'm trying to make is that whatever effect luck may have on a player's gameplay, ALL players have an equal chance to face the same amount of good/bad luck. All players are facing the same issues. (Statistically speaking) But there are still some things that separate the better players.

  3. #33
    Member Marquess GeSteYiam's Avatar
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    The main problem from my experience is how vast is the skill deference from diamond 5 to diamond 1.

  4. #34
    Member King Valkure's Avatar
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    @Noobersauce:
    1) I think that rank means nothing. The skill of a player is not described by it.
    2) "Not saying it's relevant but it shows what level you play at" ooooooooooh, passive aggressive comment! I love that ^^ Darling, considering the champ you're playing and the level, well... And of course, main Andro, Zhin, Cassie, Makoa... not even a champ who's not OP. Interesting. So, as you can see, I have a point: you only exploit OP champs to win. Nice strategy. Does this mean you're better than one playing normal champs? Maybe you think you're smart. I think you're taking an unfair advantage. Point of view. "Not saying it's relevant but it shows what level you play at". Yeah! Try to grind with a support, then come back to speak.
    3) "It's "winning consistently" That's what separates the players at higher ranks. The ability to win consistently. " with OP champion, yes. I've understood your point, darling. What I am saying is that win in that way IS SHIT. And you can't protest you're skilled as much as you wish, you are still exploiting OP champs to carry. Something I (and many others) can't, for the champs not being balanced. Wow, such a great skill in winning with OP champs...
    4) "And if you were confident in the way you played that match then you should be satisfied with your performance and move onto the next game" If I am good, but I have to lose for you're bad, I am not satisfied, I am frustrated. As said, pick a support and try yourself. Then tell me how much you'll be angry after killing 50 enemies and losing, for the allies best kill number is 8. Happened to me 4 months ago. I was Ying, by the way.
    5) "You can't reasonably expect every champion to be at the level and have the ability to carry games." said the one using only OP champs...
    6) "Especially when you don't actually know what they had done to get to that higher level. It's easy but it's certainly not right." yep, and now I've made myself aware of how you get to diamond, with 1680 casual elo. You are the perfect example of exploiting recent bad MM and OP champs. Now I understand why you are so combative on the topic :-D
    7) you say "ALL players have an equal chance to face the same amount of good/bad luck" 5 lines after saying "You can't reasonably expect every champion to be at the level and have the ability to carry games.". As usual, FAI PACE COL CERVELLO. I don't think there's a good translation for that, but the sense is "come to terms with your brain".

    So, you are the perfect example of what I find WRONG in this game. Please, don't come to lecture me on how to win ranked, when you're the one exploiting the system I am trying to dismantle 'CAUSE IT'S UNFAIR.
    Being you so biased, I will ignore your future posts on that. Have at least half of your games played as healing support, then we could discuss again.
    I've finally found it!

    New to the forum? Have a look >>>here<<<! Some useful answers.

    They read it! >>>here<<<

    MM community questions are here! >>>here<<<
    And how the MM seems to work, by Epplz >>>link<<<


    Revert the nerf. And see the Math. link

  5. #35
    Member Knight noobersauce's Avatar
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    Okay firstly, before I respond to your points I'd like to say that I have no personally attacked you or the way you play in any of my posts. Not only that, i've tried to be as respectful as I can. I was never condescending and I had never intended to be condescending. So if I did say anything in that manner. I apologize. I honestly have no intentions of ill feelings. I like engaging in argumentative discourse.

    So please take that into consideration while reading my posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    @Noobersauce:
    1) I think that rank means nothing. The skill of a player is not described by it.
    I guess this is the crux of the matter we are talking about right. And I'm sure you know where I stand on this. I believe that rank is definitely and indication of skill. Though I guess it deserves some clarification. Considering, that your rank is based on how much you play the ranked game mode, it's obviously not a clear representation. Someone can have loads of games in casual and be quite adept at the game but not play ranked at all and therefore be "unranked". In such cases clearly the player's rank doesn't really reflect their skill.
    However, for a person aiming to play the game competitively and has put in a lot of time in ranked, then rank would be a decent reflection of their skill in the game.
    Also, I'm not advocating that you judge people and call them bad if they are at lower ranks. At the same time I'm asking that you should not be so quick to dismiss players at higher ranks by calling them unskilled and lucky.
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    2) "Not saying it's relevant but it shows what level you play at" ooooooooooh, passive aggressive comment! I love that ^^ Darling, considering the champ you're playing and the level, well... And of course, main Andro, Zhin, Cassie, Makoa... not even a champ who's not OP. Interesting. So, as you can see, I have a point: you only exploit OP champs to win. Nice strategy. Does this mean you're better than one playing normal champs? Maybe you think you're smart. I think you're taking an unfair advantage. Point of view. "Not saying it's relevant but it shows what level you play at". Yeah! Try to grind with a support, then come back to speak.
    3) "It's "winning consistently" That's what separates the players at higher ranks. The ability to win consistently. " with OP champion, yes. I've understood your point, darling. What I am saying is that win in that way IS SHIT. And you can't protest you're skilled as much as you wish, you are still exploiting OP champs to carry. Something I (and many others) can't, for the champs not being balanced. Wow, such a great skill in winning with OP champs...
    It wasn't a passive aggressive comment. Though I do have to admit it was a bit rude of me to say it that way. So i'm sorry.
    I'm sure you've seen higher level of competitive play and esports. You see the type of champions they pick right ? They always pick the strongest champions, the OP champions because they want to win. And they will use every little advantage they will get to win.
    I play ranked in order to win. I find winning fun. So I do everything I can in order to win. And that means min maxing every little thing I can. From champion drafts to item pickups to loadouts. If you have different priorities when you play that's fine. But saying that it's "unfair" and calling it "SHIT way to win" seems petty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    4) "And if you were confident in the way you played that match then you should be satisfied with your performance and move onto the next game" If I am good, but I have to lose for you're bad, I am not satisfied, I am frustrated. As said, pick a support and try yourself. Then tell me how much you'll be angry after killing 50 enemies and losing, for the allies best kill number is 8. Happened to me 4 months ago. I was Ying, by the way.
    I play whatever the team need and I play it to the best of my ability. And while it does feel bad sometimes losing a few games I know that I made mistakes in the game that I can change and improve on for the next time. The way I look it is, I can't control how my team mates play. So no point getting salty over what I can't control. There are things that I can control, i.e. the way I'm playing so I do the most I can in that aspect. If I lose despite that then fine. Move onto the next match and hope for the best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    5) "You can't reasonably expect every champion to be at the level and have the ability to carry games." said the one using only OP champs...
    That was my point. Some champions are better than others. What was your point ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    6) "Especially when you don't actually know what they had done to get to that higher level. It's easy but it's certainly not right." yep, and now I've made myself aware of how you get to diamond, with 1680 casual elo. You are the perfect example of exploiting recent bad MM and OP champs. Now I understand why you are so combative on the topic :-D
    Like I said earlier, the ranked elo and casual elo obviously have no relation to each other. I play ranked way more than I play casual. And I never play casual with the same mindset that I play ranked.
    I feel like that should be obvious to anyone. They are different modes and should be seen differently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    7) you say "ALL players have an equal chance to face the same amount of good/bad luck" 5 lines after saying "You can't reasonably expect every champion to be at the level and have the ability to carry games.". As usual, FAI PACE COL CERVELLO. I don't think there's a good translation for that, but the sense is "come to terms with your brain".
    Those two statements have nothing to do with each other. The first statement is talking about the likelihood of players facing bad situations (like bad team mates/afk etc). The second statement is talking about how impactful different champions are on the game.
    I fail to see the relation they have to each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    So, you are the perfect example of what I find WRONG in this game. Please, don't come to lecture me on how to win ranked, when you're the one exploiting the system I am trying to dismantle 'CAUSE IT'S UNFAIR.
    Being you so biased, I will ignore your future posts on that. Have at least half of your games played as healing support, then we could discuss again.
    Valkure, i'm not trying to lecture you. I'm offering my views and opinions. What about the system is unfair ? The system is built around the fact that there are different roles that each champion can play. Some roles can do things better than other roles. Why is that unfair? Games like this where there are different champions and each champions having different attributes are inherently like that. What about this system do you want to dismantle ?

    What is my bias ? What am I biased towards ? I am open to every view and opinion. Merely disagreeing with you doesn't make me biased.

    I play all roles. I play the role that my team needs at the time and I play it to the best of my abilities. I play what the team needs to help us win. Which means I do play supports. And damage and front lines and flanks. And I pick the champions that will help me win the most in whatever role I have to play. I don't see how that makes me bad or evil. Disregarding my opinions just because I don't have 50% most played champion as support seems narrow minded.

  6. #36
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    I have to agree with Valkure on the fact that border is not relevant to estimate one player skill. It does tell you that he knows all Paladins mechanics and he is experienced if he is high rank but not really if he is good.

    Of course we have to face the same luck/unluck but you can at least reduce the variance with simple tricks.
    See KamiVS. I do find he is GM level but he would had never reached this rank if he was not constantly partying with pro.

    There is too much variables that you can't control. Most of high ranked players, not talking about pro, are there because they found ways to reduce those variables or control some of them. A wanabe-GM playing alone will have a hard time even if he is highly skilled while an average player partying with some pro friends will get to GM faster.

    I miss the time where it was your team that made ranks, not individuals.
    Last edited by Gwadachou; 02-13-2018 at 10:17 AM.

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    Super Moderator King Wallachia's Avatar
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    Look how cool noobersauce and Valkure having a conversa-

    *Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios.*

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  8. #38
    Member Baronet QU1KUS3F's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallachia View Post
    Look how cool noobersauce and Valkure having a conversa-

    Ggwp. I mean no offense but like don't you guys have something else to do XD? not criticizing you for being active on the forums but for a normal convo ur typing in more than 500 words each reply. Or maybe you are a write o.o or maybe you should be?!
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    Boycott OB64/65

    Who likes the unbound update? Hi-Rez only.

    !!Signature limit is too low to describe how broken OB64/65 is!!



  9. #39
    Member Baron
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    If someone takes casual as seriously as others do ranked, they have to recognize that they will be in for a wild ride because it's simply not the supported competitive game mode by the developers. By taking it so seriously you accept the fact that not everyone is going to try, but you want to win regardless.

    Telling people to practice champions against bots and not in casual is ridiculous because against bots I can get a pentakill as Skye, but in any human match I struggle to get even one kill. (I don't know how to flank.) People like to learn champions against humans because they learn faster.

    Contrast this to ranked where one is meant to try to win, and there is more structure with the pick/ban system. This creates an environment where not trying can be considered griefing, versus the same situation in casual where maybe you're just goofing off going support Moji.

    Lastly, using the Paladins forums as a reference for the skill and knowledge of players is just wrong. People who come here are seeking further information about the game and will thus be more informed on average. When I play a casual match with a Gold support, I guarantee you that player is not as good or as informed as Valkure, because they just don't play the game as much, and aren't as knowledgeable. That said, Valkure is not the average Gold support main, the player I get matched with randomly is.
    Grover isn't so great? Are you kidding me? When was the last time you saw a support with such high mobility and damage? Grover puts the game on another level, and we will be blessed if we ever see a champion as good as him. Jenos gets top healing. Mal Damba impacts teamfights. Grover breaks the rules. You can keep your statistics. I prefer the magic.

    It had to be said.

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    Member Baron JahMan60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallachia View Post
    Ob66 is a bug fixing patch.
    And i saw new skins. More like every patch - new skins.
    "We're listening!"
    "Cancel OB64"
    "FUCK NO"
    *Chris arrived*
    "Ok fine, we'll cancel OB64.

    Well, why don't we?

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