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Thread: The Matchmaker Conundrum 2.0

  1. #21
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amanda View Post
    The stats make no sense for parties. I'm starting to think matchmaker is more of "we need to get these people in a match, quick!" rather than "these players are really good. let's wait for proper opponents"
    If this would be true, considering that 90% of player base is low level (guru data), then 90% of your games should be super easy. Instead in every damn game, I always find 2 masters or grandmasters in enemy team.
    I've finally found it!

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    #StopPlayingSupports
    Let them see how a game with shit-nerfed supports is.

  2. #22
    Beta Player Sovereign Prince DaSpyChecker's Avatar
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    I want to share something some might not know, i might be wrong & i know it might offend some but after a lot of experience i think i am mostly correct.


    Players with same rating,ELO can unfortunately have a big difference in their carry power depending on their class,champs.

    Forexample: 2 teams with 4 1500 ELO players, they both have 1 2500 ELO carry but one player is a Heal Bot Jenos or Damba main while other team has a Bombking or Shalin main. I would bet that the damage main will be able to carry bad teams much better than the healers & win maybe even 70% of the time in those cases. I have seen it happen far too many times & if i want to win i would have a damage,FLank main carry on my team anyday over a Tank,Support main sad but true.


    Its an even bigger issue with Tank mains, i am not saying that they have less skill or anything but their ability to carry worse team mates is unfortunately low. I have seen high ELO 2700+ high winrate 60%+ Nando,Torvald mains being quite hopeless with lower ELO team mates, almost to the point they were barely better than a 2K damage FLank main.


    At any given ELO there are the bad boosted,lucky players who clearly dont belong there, there are average players & there are also the very good players. All will have different impact on matches,there is a very big difference between a 1 KDA 2.5K ELO Andro main vs a 2 KDA plus Andro with the same ELO, the low KDA player very likely only knows how to play aggressively & relies on his good aim too much which may not work in a given match while the high KDA player very likely knows how to slow down & position properly to not feed the enemy team.



    There is also this issue of Matchamaker overestimating a high ELO player's carry power.

    ForExample:


    Team A ELO--------Team B ELO
    1. 2000---------------2400
    2. 2000---------------2400
    3. 2000---------------2400
    4. 2000---------------2400
    5. 4000---------------2400


    Both teams have an average ELO of 2400 but most of team B is a lot better than team A, its a bad match up & very hard for that very high ELO player to carry. I had a similar match with a 4K pip player on my team no offense to him but he really couldnt do much,again there comes back this issue of vastly different carry power between champs, if he was a Andro or Kinessa main no doubt he would have carried much better & we might have won. SOLO carry works below 2K but after that it becomes much harder where even the best players can struggle, so maybe after 2K the MM should stop considering the average ELO's & never create matches where most of team 1 is better than most of team 2.
    Last edited by DaSpyChecker; 02-05-2018 at 06:22 AM.
    Kinessa Guide

    Current favorites

    Damage: Kinessa,Bombking,Willo
    Support: Pip,Furia,Jenos
    Flank: Buck,Talus
    Frontline: Ash,Makoa,Barik

    I hate playing specialized limited champs like Tyra,Seris,Torvald & you wont ever see me play a healbot Jenos ever.

  3. #23
    Beta Player Baronet Yuzzuru's Avatar
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    Yes, I know, gold and silver can be together, but not in different teams

  4. #24
    Beta Player Sovereign Prince
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    Unfortunately I don't have the screenshots, but here are the games stats on guru:

    Matched with a Master > http://paladins.guru/match/pc/211196351

    Matched against two Silvers > http://paladins.guru/match/pc/211207146

    Couple of Diamonds matched with gold players > http://paladins.guru/match/pc/211307227

    Matched with a solo silver player against two parties above gold > http://paladins.guru/match/pc/211313642

    Matched with and against silver players, twice > http://paladins.guru/match/pc/211319708
    http://paladins.guru/match/pc/211364102

    Diamond player matched with gold players against other gold players > http://paladins.guru/match/pc/211328724

    Matched with a silver player against a full platinum team > http://paladins.guru/match/pc/211333103

    Matched against a solo silver player, twice > http://paladins.guru/match/pc/211355636
    http://paladins.guru/match/pc/211393637

    Even though they are in pt this one is just ridiculous > http://paladins.guru/match/pc/211371563

    Matched with two solo silvers against a team of gold and above (including a party) > http://paladins.guru/match/pc/211384490

    Matched with a silver against a bronze(V) > http://paladins.guru/match/pc/211388261

    For the record I'm platinum.
    Some of those matches had parties in it, but all of them exceed the range you stipulated on the thread. All these games happent in ranked mode in a time spam of two days, this weekend, when the servers should be filled with players and the MM should be working at its best. I didn't include all the party games I had since they are harder to fairly match, but I had many more similar games with similar disparities involving parties.
    Commandment number one in ranked matches:
    Never expect your team to do their job, if you want something done right, do it yourself.

  5. #25
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSpyChecker View Post
    Forexample: 2 teams with 4 1500 ELO players, they both have 1 2500 ELO carry but one player is a Heal Bot Jenos or Damba main while other team has a Bombking or Shalin main. I would bet that the damage main will be able to carry bad teams much better than the healers & win maybe even 70% of the time in those cases. I have seen it happen far too many times & if i want to win i would have a damage,FLank main carry on my team anyday over a Tank,Support main sad but true.
    You have a point. As I've already written in many threads, as a support I am already sacrificing one (or two) of my abilities to sustain others and not to "win by myself". Then, if I have CC, one (or two, if you consider some ulti-s) of my abilities are neutralized at 90% by Resilience (imagine what would happen if Haven and Blast Shield tier 3 would nullify 90% of dmg received!). So, at best, 2 of my abilities are useless for carrying. 3 (RMB, Q and E) if you're Mal'Damba.
    If you sacrifice all your healing to go full dmg (not that a full dmg support can beat a DD or a flanker), you are still fu*** off your whole team.

    That's why I think supports need a consistent buff. Because if I have to carry, then I need the possibility to do it. And if MM is structured on purpose to make me carry the game, then all champs must be capable of that.
    I've finally found it!

    New to the forum? Have a look >>>here<<<! Some useful answers.

    #StopPlayingSupports
    Let them see how a game with shit-nerfed supports is.

  6. #26
    Super Moderator Emperor Wallachia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amanda View Post
    The stats make no sense for parties. I'm starting to think matchmaker is more of "we need to get these people in a match, quick!" rather than "these players are really good. let's wait for proper opponents"

    it gets worse: http://paladins.guru/match/pc/206196087
    Matchmaker was made taking into consideration a much higher playerbase than we have active, so it's like it's permanently stuck on the functioning of "We are lacking personnel, let's put those guys here together!"
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  7. #27
    Beta Player Marquess dbzlucky77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallachia View Post
    Ranked Borders have zero effect on Casual standings. That Grandmaster who fought against you on casual might simply be someone who doesn't play casual too often

    Different game modes =/= different matchmakers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wallachia View Post
    Casual elo is only based on winrate in that specific casual gamemode. Whoever you are on ranked makes no difference.
    I've heard this before and i have to ask WHY. This is how you get matches like my below picture ( excuse the atrocious paint handwriting lol ). What are bronze and silver players doing in a match with a master. That shouldn't happen under ANY circumstance. Just because they're different game modes doesn't mean it's a different player

    Legend:
    U= Unranked
    B= Bronze
    S= Silver
    G= Gold
    M=Masters

    Last edited by dbzlucky77; 02-05-2018 at 11:31 AM. Reason: Added Legend

  8. #28
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallachia View Post
    Matchmaker was made taking into consideration a much higher playerbase than we have active, so it's like it's permanently stuck on the functioning of "We are lacking personnel, let's put those guys here together!"
    Yes, but according to the idea that it considers only W/L history, after 13 losses, why I am not paired against super noobs?
    Darling, it's more than a month that I am not in a easy (or just balanced) game. All stomps for my team. I keep losing and losing and losing, and considering 98%of the player-base, according to guru, is worse than me, even if MM were totally random, I should face some of them, every now and then.
    I've finally found it!

    New to the forum? Have a look >>>here<<<! Some useful answers.

    #StopPlayingSupports
    Let them see how a game with shit-nerfed supports is.

  9. #29
    Beta Player Viscount
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    I really don't think the MM consider your winrate at all. If you are in a long winstreak yeah in my experience MM used to match you against people in a winstreak too, but at the moment MM seems totally random. You are still matched against "pro" after a long loss-streak, you can still be matched against noob even if you are on a rampage. I would say 85% of matches are totally unbalanced now.
    Look at this game of FrostFangs:
    http://paladins.guru/match/pc/210287074

    He was highest rank on his team and he was Diamond at that moment. He got matched against three pro in a party (GM, GM, M...). Looking at both teams you can see that "pro" team was on a winning streak while loosing team were on a loss streak or balanced.
    Beside being totally random there is no way MM could match your diamond/gold team Vs a party of three pro.

    In competitive main issue seems to be the lack of players, at least at high rank. There is always the same M and GM playing, generally pro or really good players, but they are so few now they got matched against low rank team. And even if MM seems fair (like Kami/Bird Vs Parkour/Plaisir) for the low rank that got matched into these games it is not fun at all.
    Last edited by Gwadachou; 02-06-2018 at 05:05 AM.

  10. #30
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    This could be true if... 99% of player base weren't lower than 2000 elo (I am referring to "old" numbers, since the new classic siege numbers are still raising). 99% of players are bad, and yet, we're all complaining to be matched against super pro teams. Where are the bad players? They should be 99% of users, so 99% of games should be filled with them.
    I've finally found it!

    New to the forum? Have a look >>>here<<<! Some useful answers.

    #StopPlayingSupports
    Let them see how a game with shit-nerfed supports is.

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