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Thread: The Matchmaker Conundrum 2.0

  1. #961
    Super Moderator Emperor Wallachia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QueenOfCups View Post
    Well I don't believe that you can do anything right. No offence just great experience of contacting you but I'd be glad to be surprised if you really will improve matchmaking. Goodluck in that try hard please.
    I am not a game developer. I am a volunteer player who put himself to act as a bridge between players and actual developers. I'm simply communicating what they told me after I tortured them for 6 months about this.
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    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallachia View Post
    I'm very much aware many players will not accept their level of skill and will still complain, but still.
    My perplexity as main support:
    1) if I go dmg, considering how nerfed supports are, I would not get great results, but have to sacrifice heals a lot
    2) if I go heals, I am just useless for me team
    I mean, I hope they would not count just plain healing numbers as "performance". This would only lead to more healing bots and less skilled players in support role. :-/
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    Super Moderator Emperor Wallachia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    My perplexity as main support:
    1) if I go dmg, considering how nerfed supports are, I would not get great results, but have to sacrifice heals a lot
    2) if I go heals, I am just useless for me team
    I mean, I hope they would not count just plain healing numbers as "performance". This would only lead to more healing bots and less skilled players in support role. :-/
    You'd need to multitask.

    I'm very much aware how this is rather simplistic, but there's no accurate way to measure performance automatically. You could go offensive support, okay, but people who focus heavily on healing would be prejudiced. Unless it counts role performance and off-role performance is a bonus.

    Also, if you want to go damage, you crazy woman, just get a damage character. >:{
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  4. #964
    Member Recruit MrQbn's Avatar
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    AFAIK 2.01 doesn't include updated match making until someone from HiRez / EvilMojo confirms it. I haven't read that anywhere.
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    Please consider examining your matchmaking system

    Hi.
    I have played 110 games and 20 hours total and I am bad at FPS and at 1940 elo. I am being put against five stacks of 2900 consistently, and on top of this, I am losing 22 elo as a 1940 player against 2900 five stacks.

    How does matchmaking think that I'm GREATLY favored as a 1940 ELO player against a 2900 5 stack?

    http://paladins.guru/censor/match/hAw

    This is matchmaking completely and utterly failing, and this happens consistently to me. This is the perfect best possible example proving that matchmaking in this game is broken BEYOND belief and non-functional.

    I don't think that a matchmaking system should consider 2900 5 stack vs 1940 2 stack as "favored" for the 1940 player, and if your algorithm is designed in a way to think this, then you need to completely revamp your matchmaking system.

    I suggest some type of elo system that also looks at games played and time played when deciding matches, as well as not average elo vs enemies average elo when deciding if a match is "fair" and who is "favored", if a person is 1800 on a team full of 2,200's against 2.k+ they shouldn't low a ton of elo due to their average team elo being higher - they stand no chance as a 1800 player against 2.2k+ players and are just free fodder. On top of this, 4-5 stacks should be considered extremely higher than any "Average" elo of the team they face and thus give a ton of elo if beaten, and if lost to full solo/duo queue teams should lose nearly no elo.

    Please consider looking into how your matchmaking works, because something is VERY wrong.
    Last edited by ShiyoKozuki; 01-11-2019 at 07:16 PM.

  6. #966
    Member Esquire AverBeg1's Avatar
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    I agree with ShiyoKozuki,

    On a regular basis I experience the same thing, in fact, more games are out of balance than games that are. I frequently vs stacks with all solo players on my team, and I lose over 15 elo for no reason, because the average elo doesn't take into consideration who is stacked and who is not. The playerbase of this game are mostly under 50% winrate, and I don't want to say it, but pretty unaware and inept at Hero Shooters. When you combine that fact with people who are adept frequently stacking, it makes bad matchmaking and a a poor experience for everyone else. Not only does it ruin the game for your frequent players, but it drives away new players very quickly. You simply can't carry games where your team are running into the enemy one by one with no consideration for positioning and then standing still and simply feeding the enemy ults/ gold. It's impossible to do anything when 4-5 good players on one team are free to full focus 1-2 on the other and win. The enemy frequently spawn traps when this happens as well. They farm lower elo players without taking objectives or pushing the payload, to pad their stats, but their solo stat performance in games doesn't raise or lower their elo, only win/loss and the average elo per team does, when the average elo calculation is already broken. This results in an ineffective system.

    For the sake of the new player experience, and allowing your regular players to queue up for actual matches instead of steamrolls, fixing the MMR system should be a top priority. If things continue the way they are people will quit, and the return rate of new players becoming regulars will stay under 30%, within a year or two you'll be closing servers and losing a tonne of your playerbase.

    I like the direction Hi-Rez is going with in-game balance changes and Champion bugfixes but, they won't amount to anything if people can't get a decent match in 10 straight games. It's ridiculous. So many people are abusing the poor MM to get easy wins, you can't trust the community to police themselves when it comes to this sort of thing.

    TL;DR
    Raise a teams average elo when 3 or more players are stacked in a party
    Have parties of more than 3 be more likely to VS other parties, and give them a minimum wait time before they are considered to VS teams with less stacked players
    Factor solo stats and in game perfomance (average dmg, k/d/a, etc.) into the player's solo elo

    Thanks for reading,
    Aver
    Last edited by AverBeg1; 01-12-2019 at 06:15 AM.

  7. #967
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    Wallachia I think you're doing a great job, and I voted for you for assembly of champions. I would never be so polite to these crappers.

    I just finished grinding ranked for the season. Went 15-6, placed in gold 1 then skipped to plat 2. Yeah, for me 21 ranked games is grinding. I flat out don't see the matchmaking problems that others are claiming.

    Also I consistently got first pick over people who were 300 to 400 guru elo higher than me. In general, I always had the lowest guru elo and got first pick in half of my games, and first or second pick in all but one of my games where I got third pick. Those estimations are wildly inaccurate, so please stop citing them as evidence. The only thing those cited guru elos prove is the inaccuracy of guru.

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    Beta Player Grand Prince M3RC3N4RI0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brovarich View Post
    Also I consistently got first pick over people who were 300 to 400 guru elo higher than me. In general, I always had the lowest guru elo and got first pick in half of my games, and first or second pick in all but one of my games where I got third pick. Those estimations are wildly inaccurate, so please stop citing them as evidence. The only thing those cited guru elos prove is the inaccuracy of guru.
    There is no prove that picking order depends on intern ELO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M3RC3N4RI0 View Post
    There is no prove that picking order depends on intern ELO.
    The only thing that will prove it is if HI-rez comes out and says it. Despite that, there is some incredibly strong evidence that pick order is directly related to elo with higher elo players getting higher order picks.

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    Matchmaking has got even worse! I am now matched with lvl 1 -5 mastery champs consistenly whose players have acc lvl <20. My acc lvl is 326 I have over 8000 hours playtime. Why am I always matched with complete noobies? I just dont get it. Of course, I lose every game because they have no idea how to play.

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