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Thread: Late-Game Ultimates Are Underwhelming

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    Late-Game Ultimates Are Underwhelming

    The main problem that I think undermines what I'm about to discuss is inconsistency. Allow me to elaborate: there are many ultimate's in the game whose description is inconsistent with what they do, and items inconsistently affect ultimates. Some examples:

    - The Drogoz ultimate deals "100% of the targets max health to the target," meaning it should not kill a full health shielded Torvald, or any full health character with a haven item. It should be called an insta-kill, or it should be properly affected by items.
    - The Zhin ultimate with Guillotine deals "25% of the targets max health to the target with each attack," meaning that, again, it would not kill a shielded Torvald or other full health characters with haven. Additionally, since the Zhin ult has 4 strikes, healing a full health ally targeted by the Zhin ultimate should save them, but it does not. Again, this can be fixed by calling it an insta-kill.
    - The Pip and Moji ultimates are CC ultimates, yet they have a minimum duration, whereas other strong CC ultimates (Mal'Damba, Torvald, Seris) are completely nullified by CC immunity or resilience.

    Now, as the game goes on people can build up resilience or cauterize (to counter healing ultimates), so naturally, late-game ultimates are often less powerful. Even damage-dealing ultimates (except for the insta-kills) are affected by haven and blast shields.

    What I propose:

    - Rewrite the description of ultimates to accurately represent what they do (e.g. Drogoz ultimate "instantly kills the target" or the Zhin Guillotine ultimate "kills the target over its duration")
    - Make ultimates affected by Items be, at maximum, affected by the level 1 version of the item (CC reduction cards in loadouts should still maintain their full affect) (this includes damage-dealing ultimates such as Hexafire or even Ancient Rage)
    - Remove the minimum duration on Moji and Pip ultimates
    - CC Immunity should cancel any CC ultimate, including Moji and Pip

    This way, every ultimate in the game is countered the same way, and is reduced by the same amount (level 1 item) (loadout cards or damage reduction or CC immunity abilities would still have their same effect on ultimates).
    Frontline: Makoa (11) / Ash (10) / Inara (9)
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    You're right about those descriptions they should be changed but I'm pretty sure Pips ultimate is countered by Resil. If you have it maxed out you're transformed into a chick for like .5 seconds.

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    Member Esquire Leafstorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleepyhead666 View Post
    You're right about those descriptions they should be changed but I'm pretty sure Pips ultimate is countered by Resil. If you have it maxed out you're transformed into a chick for like .5 seconds.
    Pips ult has a minimum duration of 2 seconds, so you Will not be a chicken for less than that.

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    Member Viscount PTLagger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SocraticPhoenix View Post
    - The Drogoz ultimate deals "100% of the targets max health to the target," meaning it should not kill a full health shielded Torvald, or any full health character with a haven item. It should be called an insta-kill, or it should be properly affected by items.
    His ult nullify/ignore shields and damage reduction. Saying it's insta is not really true since a clutch legendary and ult can prevent that.

    Quote Originally Posted by SocraticPhoenix View Post
    - The Zhin ultimate with Guillotine deals "25% of the targets max health to the target with each attack," meaning that, again, it would not kill a shielded Torvald or other full health characters with haven. Additionally, since the Zhin ult has 4 strikes, healing a full health ally targeted by the Zhin ultimate should save them, but it does not. Again, this can be fixed by calling it an insta-kill.
    Actually Zhin does 5 strikes to secure kill a target in his ult. This is not insta-kill, if you play old Torval who has 3500 health and 5000 shield you can tank his Ult 2 times, that's why they changed Torvald to 5000 HP and 2000 shield later
    And CC immunity can prevent or cancel his Ult.

    Quote Originally Posted by SocraticPhoenix View Post
    - CC Immunity should cancel any CC ultimate, including Moji and Pip
    CC immunity can cancel Moji's ult
    For Pip, nerfing his ult like that will make him become trash. When you become a chicken your health will become 1500 even you are in low health, and you can find a way to escape and teammates can block his way to save you. Not like Mal'damba, he can use ult when your team are in low health, and they can't come to save you if they don't have CC immunity because they will be "Feared" if they walk in
    Last edited by PTLagger; 01-12-2018 at 02:03 PM.
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    Inara's ulti is pretty sad when enemies get Resilience 3. If I try to ulti on players who have Resilience 3, they'll be unstunned before I can even shoot them after using my ulti.

    Edit: Well they don't even really get stunned at all with Res 3, they just kind of pause in place for half a second, and then start moving again

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    I don't think this is needed. Drogoz's and Zhin's ultimates clearly say that the damage is applied to your maximum healt. Health. Personal shield or heals ovbiously shouldn't save you if you're going to lose 100%, it is literally said on the tutorial (and you don't have to be a genius to realize that on your own) if your health bar reaches 0, you die. BTW Pip's and Moji's ultimates also are nullified for CC immunity.
    I still don't like OB58

    (nor any other patch after that one)

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    Member Duke zVersee's Avatar
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    It’s not fair to remove the minimum duration of 2s for Pip since targets revert to their previous health, meaning it will be completely useless unlike Mal’Dambas, Seris or Torvald’s ultimate.

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    Member Baronet
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    I've made this same post about Drogoz's ult in the past. The description of his ult says that he deals damage equal to 100% of the target's health. It does NOT say the damage is dealt directly to the health of the target. It does NOT say it destroys shields. It does NOT say it bypasses/ignores shields. So as it's written, Drogoz's ult should NOT insta kill anyone who's at full health with a shield. If Torvald is at full health with 3000 health and a 2000 shield, Drogoz's ult should deal 3000 units of damage to Torvald meaning it should completely destroy his shield and then deal 1000 units of damage to his health leaving him ALIVE with 2k health. As written, this is how the ult should work. This is not an opinion, this is a strict reading of the card as is.

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    Member Baronet Zio_Xeno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSoulEnvoy View Post
    I've made this same post about Drogoz's ult in the past. The description of his ult says that he deals damage equal to 100% of the target's health. It does NOT say the damage is dealt directly to the health of the target. It does NOT say it destroys shields. It does NOT say it bypasses/ignores shields. So as it's written, Drogoz's ult should NOT insta kill anyone who's at full health with a shield. If Torvald is at full health with 3000 health and a 2000 shield, Drogoz's ult should deal 3000 units of damage to Torvald meaning it should completely destroy his shield and then deal 1000 units of damage to his health leaving him ALIVE with 2k health. As written, this is how the ult should work. This is not an opinion, this is a strict reading of the card as is.
    Dude it says maximum health, shield is different from health, if your health goes to zero, even if you have a shield you are going to Die.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zio_Xeno View Post
    Dude it says maximum health, shield is different from health, if your health goes to zero, even if you have a shield you are going to Die.
    The exact text of the skill is "Unleash your fury and overclock your thrusters to deliver a high velocity punch that deals 100% of your target's maximum health as damage."

    Torvald's maximum health is 3400, and he has a 1800 health shield. Every single source of damage damages the shield before Torvald, except the Drogoz ultimate. It is still inconsistent.
    Frontline: Makoa (11) / Ash (10) / Inara (9)
    Damage: Willo (12) / Drogoz (9) / Bomb King (9)
    Support: Seris (15) / Mal’Damba (12) / Ying (5)
    Flank: Talus (13) / Maeve (9) / Zhin (7) / Evie (8) / Androxus (5)

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