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Thread: Balance changes for OB61 and future patches

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    Member Marquess DrSteelz's Avatar
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    Balance changes for OB61 and future patches

    Its been awhile since I have done one of these threads. But I have some time and some fresh new ideas to share so lets do this!


    Tanks: For this class I would just like to mention I have a few suggested nerfs because like most of the community I am getting tired of 2 and now 3 tank meta, it is taking all the fun out of the game. Other than that I will be looking to bring legendaries more in line with each other. Nerfing ones I feel are too popular or over performing while buffing ones that are under performing or under used.


    Barik: Have to start of with a Barik nerf. Can expect a lot of salt for this nerf suggestion and personally I don't care. I just want to state that Barik as a tank is bad. But that doesn't take away from the fact that he is an insanely good damage dealer. Until he is reworked he needs to be treated like a damage dealer. Which is why Architectonics is in my suggested nerf list. Which has had a win rate average of 57% and has had a popularity of more than 70% since legendary release day. Barik mains who use this legendary be like "top damage please team you guys are shit" for not even aiming for entire matches... On the bright side I do have a Fortify buff for obvious reasons.

    Cards:
    - Architectonics, Turret damage increase reduced from 20% to 10%.
    - Fortify, Reduced cool down increased from 3 to 5 seconds.



    Inara: Not much to say here just want to bring her other legendaries inline with mother's grace. treacherous ground appears to be performing well now but tremors still is under performing. (Yes I know I'm still encouraging infinite walls Inara with this change but I think it would be interesting.) Also I'm absolutely sick of the self inflicted slow, it makes no sense for a projectile champ with no mobility to have this slow and I'm sure it puts a lot of new people of playing Inara.

    Kit:
    - Stone Spear 30% slow while firing removed.

    Cards:
    - Treacherous Ground, radius increase reduced from 50% to 35%
    - Tremors, cool down reduction increased from 80% to 100% as long as its not destroyed.



    Makoa: Hp nerf, I am still expecting this to be challenged.

    Kit:
    - Hp reduced from 4800 to 4500.



    Torvald: Mostly just have some quality of life changes for him. A lot of cards have been screwed up since his rework and his damage is very strong. I would consider him pretty OP right now and think he could do with a damage nerf.

    Kit:
    - Gauntlet damage reduced from 200 to 180.
    - Recharge regeneration per second reduced from 2150 to 1500.

    Cards:
    - Conduction, reduces the cool down of Recharge by 0.5/1/1.5/2 seconds increased to 1/2/3/4 seconds.
    - Vital Grasp, Recharge generates 5/10/15/20 % more shield increased to 10/20/30/40% more shield.
    - Induction, Recharge generates 1/2/3/4 ammo per second reworked to activating recharge regenerates 3/6/9/12 ammo.



    Supports: I have quite a lot of changes I want to suggest and push for in this class. Thats because I am sick of the current support meta, its so limited. Limited to the point were if you play comp you are abused for picking any support champ that isn't Jenos or Mal damba... So for these changes I had some goals that I wanted each support champ to reach on the better meta statistics. https://www.thebettermeta.com/charts...n_performance/ So that is what these changes will be aiming for. They are damage above 50 per second on the damage tab and healing above 70 per second on the healing tab. Also I feel all support should have some CC in there kit. Will also be looking to balance some legendaries just like with the tank suggestions so far.


    Grohk: Its not easy being blue, its not easy being nerfed because your win rate is over 50%, its not easy having a popularity less than 5%, its not easy having a shitty ult, its not easy being told noob healer uninstall just for playing Grohk... etc. Grohk at this point really needs a rework. His healing lacks range, totems are destroyed too easily and have a very long cool down. Yeah I think everyone under stands by now. Also change the default legendary card, Wraith is the worst by far and contributes nothing to this game, it really needs a rework. Anyway there are a lot of suggestion changes in this list for Grohk. The Goal here is that Grohk's healing has range, it covers a much larger area, can be deployed more often but no longer has an insane healing per second output.

    Kit:
    - Lightning Staff damage increased from 75 to 80.
    - Lightning Staff fire duration increased from 3.8 to 4 seconds.
    - Healing totem radius increased by 60%.
    - Healing totem healing reduced from 420 to 400.
    - Healing totem hp increased from 900 to 1200.
    - Healing totem cool down reduced from 15 to 12 seconds.
    - Healing totem now has a deployment range of 120 units.
    - By aiming the healing totem at a team mate you can press Q to auto deploy a healing totem next to them.
    - You can press and hold Q to deploy your healing totem anywhere you want.
    - Tempest duration increased from 3 to 4 seconds.

    Cards:
    - Default legendary changed from wraith to totemic ward.
    - Totemic ward healing reduced from 50% to 25%.
    - Wraith healing increased from 15% to 30%. (A rework suggestion here would be appreciated.)
    - Healing Rain, Allies inside your Healing Totem are healed for 1/2/3/4% of their maximum health per second reworked to increase the deployment range of healing totem by 20/40/60/80 units.



    Grover: Not much to say here, just some more healing for the sniping tree.

    Kit:
    - Blossom activation healing increased from 1000 to 1200.



    Jenos: Provides good damage, CC and healing which can be stacked on 3 players at a time to keep them alive and his mobility makes him very hard to pin down. I think he needs a healing nerf to make it harder to have 3 heals up at 1 time by stacking the duration increase, cool down reduction and chronos. Personally I don't see this as far and his healing needs to be hit in one of the 3 areas, I'm thinking the duration increase card should be reworked.

    Cards:
    - The Power Cosmeum, void grip damage increased from 150 to 250 per second.
    - Astral Cycle, increase the duration of Astral Mark by 0.5/1/1.5/2 seconds reworked to increase the movement speed of team mates effected by Astral Mark by 5/10/15/20%.



    Mal damba: Some healing and damage adjustments for the snek. Some people won't agree with these changes like a damage buff. But I strongly feel his damage is terrible with very limited range, worst average damage among all healers along with his poor mobility and escape from flanks. Unless you are playing as stun damba he is flank bait especially with all the damage buffs. If you are playing as stun damba then you aren't healing so please don't bother with comments like "But stun damba can protect himself well from flanks." Also would just like to point out that trying to hit slow moving close range projectiles is not skill cap so don't bother with any comments like that either... I also have a healing nerf for spirits chosen which I feel has been a staple pick since legendary release.

    Kit:
    - Spitting Cobra Fire rate increased from 0.55 to 0.5 seconds.

    Cards:
    - Spirits chosen, up front healing reduced from 300 to 250.



    Pip: Healing buff suggestion. This buff may sound a little over the top but I don't see it as a problem considering pip is C tier currently.

    Kit:
    - Healing potion healing increased from 1200 to 1500.



    Seris: I don't find much wrong with her healing personally but in today's meta her slow moving projectile damage is lack luster. Its already had a projectile speed buff so maybe a damage buff would be the icing on the cake to bring her back into the meta.

    Kit:
    - Soul Orb damage increased from 210 to 240.



    Ying: Well this will be controversial, messing with the waifu always is. How do I feel about Ying, that she is way over performing. People will say don't look at the stats with the 58% to 60% win rate. However a champ with an above average win rate but below average perceived performance is a champ that really needs to be reworked more, Torvald is a perfect example of that. Which is why I always combine my stats with tier lists and everyone's opinion. So what I think is Ying needs a rework that will adjust her healing and give her some CC. I don't have all this covered yet but what I have come up with so far is to rework her legendary cards plus a range buff on her illusory mirror. I don't know the range in units so I will use % based damage increase instead.

    Kit:
    - Illusory Mirror range increased by 20%.

    Cards:
    - Lifelike reworked to increase healing speed of illusions by 25%.
    - Resonance reworked to slow enemies that are within 50 units of the illusions by 30%.



    Damage: Mostly legendary balancing here, a couple of small reworks and buffs or nerfs for champs that I feel really need it.


    Bomb King: Old accelerant needs to make a return. This current accelerant is really stupid and broken, just spam grumpy bomb for free kills takes no skill compared to flank king... So what I propose is to rework 1 of Bomb King's deck cards and give accelerant back at 10/20/30/40% increased self knock back. This should give him the mobility to reach high places without making him flank king...

    Cards:
    - Accelerant grumpy bomb explosion speed reduced from 50% to 40%.
    - Rework explosive entrance or ablative coating to increase the self knock back of poppy bomb by 10/20/30/40%.



    Cassie: Infinite rolling needs to go... Do I really need to explain why having only 1 way to play a champ isn't good for the game? Well I'm not really going to because Ive done it in every other balance feedback thread I have ever posted. I'll keep it simple, 1 feature of her kit is OP, it received a nerf to exaction and now she will slowly decline in popularity until she reach C tier and less than 5% popularity or is completely reworked first.

    Kit:
    - Cross bow damage increased from 650 to 700.
    - Dodge roll cool down reduced from 5 to 4 seconds.

    Cards:
    - Big Game, Increased damage from 5% to 7%.
    - Incitement, First shot after rolling reduces the cooldown of Dodge Roll by 1/2/3/4 seconds if it hits reduced to 0.5/1/1.5/2 seconds.



    Lian: Come on guys, I know her auto aim makes her salty to play against but that doesn't make her OP S tier... Shes actually pretty bad and I feel she needs buffs. A rework on some of her auto aimed abilities would be nice but for now I will leave them alone. Anyway this change is for the eminence legendary card because I feel it has been significantly under performing and because presence is still the least valuable part of her kit by far.

    Kit:
    - Presence cool down reduced from 15 to 12 seconds.



    Tyra: Needs more buffs please, hands down worst champ in the damage class currently, enough said.

    Kit:
    - Hp increased from 2400 to 2600.
    - Auto rifle ammo increased from 26 to 30.
    - Crossfire now grants CC immunity.



    Willo: I know blast flower was meant to improve the 1 v 1 potential of Willo but I feel it became too strong. Like broken strong, Willo easy mode strong... Also scorched earth legendary buff because who uses this card.

    Cards:
    - Blast Flower, damage from hitting your target reduced from 100 to 75 but stacking this effect is increased from 3 to 4 times.
    - Scorched Earth, cool down reduction increased from 3 to 5 seconds.



    Flanks: Have had a lot of changes over the past couple of patches. Most of these suggestions are just legendary balance changes or tuning down the flanks that became OP. Or to suggest reworks on flanks that still haven't been re balanced yet.


    Buck: Hirez please... Why nerf a bug that actually made Buck balanced for a change... I mean its not like his popularity was less than 5% or he has been C tier since the bounce house rework.

    Kit:
    - Shotgun fire rate increased from 0.9 to 0.85 seconds.
    - Shotgun reload rate reduced from 0.55s + 0.45s for each ammo missing to 0.45s + 0.3s for each ammo missing.
    - Recovery is immune to being cauterized by more than 50%.



    Evie: She was first flank to be changed and became op, then nerfed back to the ground. However all flanks are being buffed to that level and left alone now... So she buffs again.

    Kit:
    - Ice staff damage increased from 930 to 975.
    - Blink range increased by 25%.



    Maeve: Hirez must be still taking in the fact that they managed to buff Maeve from C to S+ tier. Because I'm expecting her to receive some nerfs by now. The new range and truck sized hit boxes make her insanely easy to play. Combine that with one of the best burst damage combos, as much mobility as Evie and more reliable self healing than buck and a new Maeve was born. Arguably more OP than what she was on release day... Anyway will try not to ruin that with these suggestions, I want to see her balanced, not nerfed back to trash tier.

    Kit:
    - Hp reduced from 1900 to 1800.

    Cards:
    - Artful Dodger, no longer cleanses cauterize. (I don't think it was ever supposed to as cauterize isn't CC)
    - Cat burglar now grants 20% bonus damage for 3 seconds instead of being limited to first shot.



    Skye: Small buff for Skye to help with her self sustain.

    Cards:
    - Confound, reworked to provide 5/10/15/20% life steal against enemies who are currently infected by poison bolts.
    - Healing Vapors, increased healing from 100/200/300/400 over 4 seconds to 150/300/450/600 over 3 seconds.



    Talus: It should be no surprise that Talus is on my list for buff suggestions. Thats because he is still significantly under powered. Well unless you are running the raging demon legendary with a decent load out, that puts Talus pretty close to balanced. So most of these changes are for his other legendaries because they are terrible in there current state, plus a mobility buff.

    Kit:
    - Run of Travel cool down reduced from 15 to 12 seconds.

    Cards:
    - Faustian Bargain, also grants 10% bonus damage for having rune of travel set on the ground.
    - Inner Strength, activating true power also resets the cool down of overcharge and blitz upper.



    Zhin: I have a rework to post. Thats because I don't like how limited and frustrating Zhin is to play as and play against. This character feels limited by his own kit over simple things like delays between activating abilities and not being able to cancel them. Most of the legendaries feel like features that should have been part of his kit but were just removed for legendaries cough guillotine cough retaliation... Playing against a low cool down retaliation zhin is frustrating to play against because all he does is stall. Counter, whirl and billow away, counter... Seriously who thought this would be fun to play against. Have one bad team mate shooting the counter and its easy triple kills for days.

    Kit:
    - Billow and counter can now be canceled by the user.
    - Remove all delays between activating abilities.
    - Counter cool down increased from 7 to 10 seconds.
    - Counter damage reduced from 700 to 450.
    - After countering an attack you remain in counter stance. (Moved retaliation legendary to be a core part of Zhins kit).
    - Spite now grants 50% damage reduction.
    - If you don't get an elimination with spite you are refunded 30% ult charge.

    Cards:
    - Retaliation, reworked to increase the damage of every additional counter swing you hit by 150, stacking up to 3 times.
    - Guillotine, reworked so that enemies hit by whirl are stunned for 1 second. (Targets stunned by whirl can't be stunned by whirl again for 3 seconds).



    As always, constructive feedback from the community would be appreciated.
    Last edited by DrSteelz; 10-09-2017 at 02:59 AM.
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  2. #2
    Member Viscount DoarRaz's Avatar
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    Didnt see Architectonics in a while

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    Member Marquess CatManDude's Avatar
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    I like a lot of the changes suggested, but I feel as if a lot of them aren't really necessary. The only one in the tank category I don't understand is Makoa. Why only HP? I would suggest a bit of a nerf to pluck, the basic go-to legendary for him. It seems a bit too much as it basically allows him to win any 1v1. The rest of the front line changes I agree with.

    Moving along to support, I think a lot of them are really good. One that I completely disagree with, is the Pip buff. It's not the amount he heals that makes him near unplayed, it's, 'How many times will my potion bug out?' or, 'Will hitting the tank with my potion actually heal them?'. If anything, he just needs the bugs fixed, and that healing buff on the combat medic card.

    Damage. I think BK is fine, new accelerant needs to go, but I don't think we need to see the self knockback back to 40%. Maybe 35% at the max. The Cassie changes I completely agree with; it's pretty damn lazy that Hi-Rez likes to keep her with one loadout. Cassie mains, argue all you want that it takes so much skill to hit your next shot (it definitely feels like it doesn't), a character shouldn't only work off of one build. Moving onto Lian. I don't think it's how cheap autoaim is that everyone dislikes, it's mainly the fact that she has two of the most lazily designed 'mechanics' ever, and the refund on her ult for getting a kill, that literally no other champion has. That's like giving that to Drogoz; after all, he's meant to get a kill with his ult. The rest here seems fine, sorry about the little Lian rant.

    Flanks; yeah, buff Buck, and I would say to buff Evie's legendary to increase her damage after soar instead of just giving her a damage increase. Make it so soar gives you a 25% damage reduction whilst airborne, and for a few seconds afterwards. Maeve definitely needs the CC-get-out-of-jail-free-cleanse gone, or at least the cauterize like suggested, as well as some damage drop off to discourage the new sniping idea that literally everyone seems to be doing. Literally, I haven't seen a Maeve actually flank since OB58; they just snipe, and then go in and pick off whomever they were sniping which is silly for a FLANK to do. Anyways, I feel as if the rest of the changes will be fine, but I think Andro needs a bit of a damage reduction. Rest is fine
    Protect your supports please.
    Support main/Pip main. Greatest healing: 230,070 | Current goal: 200,000 achieved! Take a look at it! Woohoo!

    Please buff Rejuvenate or nerf Cauterize. Cause Cauterize being what is basically the best damage card in most cases is silly

    http://forums.paladins.com/showthrea...524#post363524 Just a silly idea here

    Support Pip guide here! https://goo.gl/VKP8iA

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    Member Baronet Rhaenxys's Avatar
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    Pretty great suggestions but i kinda disagree with some of them, just my two cents:

    - Resonance is a pretty solid legendary card depending on the map and how you place your illusions, 30% slowdown isnt a good trade for the current resonance, it will be something to reconsiderate if will slowdown by 40-45%.

    - At least for me, the problem with pip healing isnt the amount of heals but rather the cooldown, teammates arent going to be close to each other all the time, healing a separate group is a difficult task, leave the heal for 1200 but reduce the cooldown from 8 to 6 seconds so the internal cooldown on reload IV isnt that harsh.

    - The damage buff to seris is a good idea, however agony and specially soul collector need a complete rework to be viable over mortal reach.

    - Disagree with the nerf on blastflower, willo attacks have falloff, she is quite vulnerable to flanks already so thats pretty much her only tool against them (and maybe seedling against certain flankers) with max stacks the dps isnt that insane, there are damagers with much more reliable damage.

    - Inara, at least for me, is just a mess and needs way more changes than the suggested ones, she should have 50% DR at base on earthen guard and mothers grace changed to CC immunity plus +2 sec extra duration AND +2 less cooldown on earthen guard, maybe with that change mothers grace wouldnt be so mandatory if you want enough survivability.

    The recent adjustment to the movement penalization is in a good spot, however her weapon needs an adjustment, 25 more damage than makoa but divided in 3 shots is just awful, i would increase the projectile size to 25% and increase the fire rate from the current 1 second to 0.9.

    Except for the points above, i completely agree with your points.

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    Member Marquess CatManDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhaenxys View Post
    - At least for me, the problem with pip healing isnt the amount of heals but rather the cooldown, teammates arent going to be close to each other all the time, healing a separate group is a difficult task, leave the heal for 1200 but reduce the cooldown from 8 to 6 seconds so the internal cooldown on reload IV isnt that harsh.
    There's one problem with this; setting the cooldown of the potion to six seconds wouldn't change reload's cooldown. I think making the card have a three second cooldown would be more interesting than changing the cooldown on the potion all together. It wouldn't be as impactful in the early game, but will definitely be a game changer late game for Pip. This is, of course, if there's any buff to be given to him. With my luck, Hi-Rez is going to nerf him for some reason this upcoming update. And if they do, I'm going to be extremely sad.
    Protect your supports please.
    Support main/Pip main. Greatest healing: 230,070 | Current goal: 200,000 achieved! Take a look at it! Woohoo!

    Please buff Rejuvenate or nerf Cauterize. Cause Cauterize being what is basically the best damage card in most cases is silly

    http://forums.paladins.com/showthrea...524#post363524 Just a silly idea here

    Support Pip guide here! https://goo.gl/VKP8iA

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    Member Baron
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    YESSSS BRING BACK OLD ACCELERANT at 35 or 40 IDC JUST GET RID OF THE NEW SPAMCELLERANT

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    Giving zhin a stun would only make things worse, I mean I like your changes because it would make zhin stronger, but it would make him too OP. (even as a zhin main talking here). To me it does feel like the retaliation effect should be a basic part of his kit, but the duration of counter should be greatly decreased (leaving the cards that allow you to lengthen that effect). This would keep the basic role of his counter ability intact: make sure you have some form of defense against strong attacks, while at the same time making sure he can't just counter an ult like hexa fire by default.

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    Member Viscount kingasce13's Avatar
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    Those tank changes are now completely pointless with this new update on the PTS XD
    Favorite Support: Ying ,Maldamba
    Favorite Flank: Maeve and Androxius
    Favorite Damage: Cassie Sha Lin
    Favorite FL: Rukus Ash

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