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Thread: Zhin is the new Evie.

  1. #11
    Member Knight Sappinmahsentry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurosaki27 View Post
    watch this, check the stats

    https://www.thebettermeta.com/charts...n_performance/

    you only said that because lex can kill maeve(your main) easily using his auto aim, lol
    That site is flawed. It makes it seem like certain champs are OP, but they're not. Sorting by winrate shows that, because of Zhin's low skill floor and high skill cap, he's viable at all levels. Sorting by skill means nothing, because if an amazing Zhin is dropped in a game with average players, it's obvious that the Zhin will destroy.

    Not to mention there are other factors for this, such as Zhin being trash on certain maps, making him only played on maps where he can thrive.
    Last edited by Sappinmahsentry; 09-15-2017 at 10:36 PM.
    How to counter Zhin: run away lol, or just play any tank.

    Main Tanks:
    Ash, Nando, Makoa.

    Main Damage:
    Grover, Bomb King, Sha Lin

    Main Healer:
    M a l ' D a m b a

    Main flank:
    Avatar relevant.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sappinmahsentry View Post
    That site is flawed. It makes it seem like certain champs are OP, but they're not. Sorting by winrate shows that, because of Zhin's low skill floor and high skill cap, he's viable at all levels. Sorting by skill means nothing, because if an amazing Zhin is dropped in a game with average players, it's obvious that the Zhin will destroy.

    Not to mention there are other factors for this, such as Zhin being trash on certain maps, making him only played on maps where he can thrive.
    That graph maybe, but not the site. Check out https://www.thebettermeta.com/charts...rate_by_skill/ which controls for skill level. You can see Zhin is the best flank among people who aren't that good with their champion, but he's still one of the top flanks among people who are.

    He's also not trash on any map. Even on his worst map, Timber mill, his winrate is above 50%. https://www.thebettermeta.com/charts/winrate_by_map/

  3. #13
    Member Viscount MekaDeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loglinear View Post
    That graph maybe, but not the site. Check out https://www.thebettermeta.com/charts...rate_by_skill/ which controls for skill level. You can see Zhin is the best flank among people who aren't that good with their champion, but he's still one of the top flanks among people who are.

    He's also not trash on any map. Even on his worst map, Timber mill, his winrate is above 50%. https://www.thebettermeta.com/charts/winrate_by_map/
    Those statistics don't mean jack. You going to tell me Torvald is best tank, because of winrate?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MekaDeth View Post
    Those statistics don't mean jack. You going to tell me Torvald is best tank, because of winrate?
    Winning is the point of the game, so yes. What else could it possibly be?

  5. #15
    Member Viscount CatManDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loglinear View Post
    Winning is the point of the game, so yes. What else could it possibly be?
    If this is going off of all games, that is a huge problem. As MekaDeth put; the winrate of Torvald is the highest, so that makes him the best? That is completely flawed due to him being godly, against newer players. Once newer players run into him, they usually have no clue of what to even do about him, and what is the best way to deal with him; so this would skew the results. The same would apply for Zhin, Lex, Fernando, Seris, Jenos, etc, etc. So this is why the date could be skewed. I'm not too sure how the site actually works, but for the time being, until someone can prove this for me, I'm stuck under the assumption that the data is a global thing and goes off of every gamemode played, casual: siege, payload, and onslaught; as well as Comp.
    Protect your supports please.
    Support main/Pip main. Greatest healing: 202,674 | Current goal: 200,000 achieved! https://gyazo.com/4263ef1f89e5b9749ed91b3ac3e7a903 Woohoo!

    Please buff Rejuvenate or nerf Cauterize. Cause Cauterize being what is basically the best damage card in most cases is silly

    http://forums.paladins.com/showthrea...524#post363524 Just a silly idea here

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatManDude View Post
    If this is going off of all games, that is a huge problem. As MekaDeth put; the winrate of Torvald is the highest, so that makes him the best? That is completely flawed due to him being godly, against newer players. Once newer players run into him, they usually have no clue of what to even do about him, and what is the best way to deal with him; so this would skew the results. The same would apply for Zhin, Lex, Fernando, Seris, Jenos, etc, etc. So this is why the date could be skewed. I'm not too sure how the site actually works, but for the time being, until someone can prove this for me, I'm stuck under the assumption that the data is a global thing and goes off of every gamemode played, casual: siege, payload, and onslaught; as well as Comp.
    Just to make sure it's clear, I make TheBetterMeta.

    As I mentioned earlier, the champion winrate by skill graph is based on player rating (i.e., skill level). If a champion is only good at pwning noobs, they won't do well at high ratings. The graph takes care of that. It's specifically designed to answer the question "which champions are good across each skill level of play?" E.g., this chart says that Torvald is *the best tank* across all levels of skill, up to at least the top 5% of players. I can also tell you from the champion rating overview graph, that Torvald does just as well as Fernando and Makoa among the top one tenth of one percent (0.1%) of players.

    Now of course every champion gets better when played by people who have more skill, but the increase might not increase as fast as for other champions. You can see this in the chart. Kinessa and Androxus are great examples where they are horrible when played by crappy players (against crappy opponents), but do much much better when played by good players (against good opponents). This is the effect you want to talk about, and this is what the graph shows. Look at Kinessa and Androxus on the graph. The opposite kind of champion is Lex, who's curve starts great at lower ranks but doesn't really scale well at upper ranks. Now take a look at Torvald. He's great across all levels of skill. There's no two ways about it.

    Ratings are designed to measure this "only good against shitty players" idea. If you face opponents who are easy and win, your rating will barely move. If you face opponents who are easy and lose, your rating will go down a lot. If you want to know more about how this works, check out the post on ratings. At least section 2, but if you look through the rest you'll see how everything works.

    Some graphs control for skill (e.g., role composition, winrate by skill, and champion rating overview); some graphs don't. It says below each graph how the graphs are built.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by loglinear View Post
    Just to make sure it's clear, I make TheBetterMeta.
    Really....?
    Currently at mastery 21 with Maeve and growing...(Mastery 21 before OB 58)
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    Quote Originally Posted by emrahkutuk786 View Post
    Really....?
    Yep. Take a look at my thread history.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by loglinear View Post
    Yep. Take a look at my thread history.
    Hm...interesting
    Currently at mastery 21 with Maeve and growing...(Mastery 21 before OB 58)
    #of Blades
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