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Thread: Zhin needs some tweaks (buffs and nerfs)

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouNoobPegaLeve View Post
    Some people are really amusing... yes, I said that Zhin had 8 ammo instead 9 and I said his ult deals 1600 damage instead 2k. So what? I don't remember all numbers of all champions and probably no one of you that are saying "oh, he doesn't even know the right number, what a n00b".

    And since these people that are "main Zhin" like to make ad hominem arguments, I won't bother to try to reply you. If you think that the hilarious projectiles hitboxes are "fine" and all their short cooldown are "fine", then you probably never played other champion except Zhin is this game.

    Again, Zhin is the flanker with the highest win rate among the top 50% less skilled players (no suprise there) and he also does pretty well in high level games (among the top 10% best players) - and I'm sure that his win rate at high levels will increase since the "counter delay" was fixed in this last OB.
    He has a low skill floor and a high skill ceiling, it's no surprise he'll have a high winrate. I have been playing since closed beta and I study the meta scene a lot. I always fill, I never play Zhin when Zhin isn't needed. Also, that was an ad-hominem attack you just did there. Haha nice one buddy. Whenever I fight a Zhin, I always win cause I do one simple thing.

    VBE, press F, and get the fuck out. This always works with almost every champion in the game, he's supposed to win 1v1 duels, stop crying that he can. Just because you can't handle the fact that a flank can flank well in a game doesn't mean he needs a nerf, it means other flanks need to be buffed to his place so that they can actually be used. This entire "Zhin is OP" thing reminds me of the good ol' days when people said Skye and Viktor were OP and the forums were flooded with it.

    To the previous posters, here's what I have to say.

    Hoping your team also stops shooting isn't a problem with the character, it's a problem with the players. Deal with it. Hoping his team doesn't shoot you while you are waiting for counter to end. This one is hilarious, it's as if you can't shoot anyone else while Zhin is using his counter ability, amirite? ahahahah. "Shoot hoping he doesn't use billow to escape, hope you kill Zhin before his counter is off cooldown again if you are even still alive." Zhin will billow to a safe place for you to 1v1 him while his counter is off cooldown. When his counter is off cooldown, you can easily just reload and wait for it to come off and then enjoy the easy 9-6 seconds you have to kill him.

    you're welcome.

    P.S. Stop saying Retaliation is OP and then wanting nerfs for his base kit. That just makes it seem like you're bad at the game. His base kit is fine, it's Retaliation that's cheap.
    Last edited by Sappinmahsentry; 09-10-2017 at 08:42 PM.
    How to counter Zhin: run away lol, or just play any tank.

    Main Tanks:
    Ash, Nando, Makoa.

    Main Damage:
    Grover, Bomb King, Sha Lin

    Main Healer:
    M a l ' D a m b a

    Main flank:
    Avatar relevant.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sappinmahsentry View Post
    He has a low skill floor and a high skill ceiling, it's no surprise he'll have a high winrate. I have been playing since closed beta and I study the meta scene a lot. I always fill, I never play Zhin when Zhin isn't needed. Also, that was an ad-hominem attack you just did there. Haha nice one buddy. Whenever I fight a Zhin, I always win cause I do one simple thing.

    VBE, press F, and get the fuck out. This always works with almost every champion in the game, he's supposed to win 1v1 duels, stop crying that he can. Just because you can't handle the fact that a flank can flank well in a game doesn't mean he needs a nerf, it means other flanks need to be buffed to his place so that they can actually be used. This entire "Zhin is OP" thing reminds me of the good ol' days when people said Skye and Viktor were OP and the forums were flooded with it.

    To the previous posters, here's what I have to say.

    Hoping your team also stops shooting isn't a problem with the character, it's a problem with the players. Deal with it. Hoping his team doesn't shoot you while you are waiting for counter to end. This one is hilarious, it's as if you can't shoot anyone else while Zhin is using his counter ability, amirite? ahahahah. "Shoot hoping he doesn't use billow to escape, hope you kill Zhin before his counter is off cooldown again if you are even still alive." Zhin will billow to a safe place for you to 1v1 him while his counter is off cooldown. When his counter is off cooldown, you can easily just reload and wait for it to come off and then enjoy the easy 9-6 seconds you have to kill him.

    you're welcome.


    Hoping my team doesn't shoot someone that they just happen to see isn't the fault of the team is the fault of the game design. Often times, shooting first will win you an encounter. People often shoot and then realize Zhin is countering. It is Hi-rez's fault for adding a counter intuitive skill to the game without an obvious tell compared to Andro's reversal.

    Hoping his team doesn't shoot while he is countering because as I explained, if you do change targets, Zhin will stap you in the back or get free hits.

    Zhin will billow to the of back of his team if he is in trouble. Most retailation Zhins I faced play as front line damage rather than flankers because it allows them to be near invincible. Get in the enemies face, counter to get behind them, attack or billow to safety, counter again to protect the front line, whirl and attack any enemy who is near dead.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_black_of_sin View Post
    Not a Viktor main and your description of countering Zhin is plain stupid.
    1. Stop shooting and hope your team also stops
    2. Hope his team doesn't shoot you while you are waiting for counter to end
    3. Shoot hoping he doesn't use billow to escape
    4. Hope you kill Zhin before his counter is off cooldown again if you are even still alive
    Quote Originally Posted by The_black_of_sin View Post
    Learn to follow along. His counter gives him a period of not being able to be shot, acting as a shield that allows his other skill to go on cooldown. People use him as a front line blocking damage for the team. Also, because counter can be activated during a combo, he will almost always counter one attack at least, healing for 400 which is big during a duel. If you ignore him, he will just stab you in the back. If you focus on him, his team will just shoot you.
    Quote Originally Posted by The_black_of_sin View Post


    Hoping my team doesn't shoot someone that they just happen to see isn't the fault of the team is the fault of the game design. Often times, shooting first will win you an encounter. People often shoot and then realize Zhin is countering. It is Hi-rez's fault for adding a counter intuitive skill to the game without an obvious tell compared to Andro's reversal.

    Hoping his team doesn't shoot while he is countering because as I explained, if you do change targets, Zhin will stap you in the back or get free hits.

    Zhin will billow to the of back of his team if he is in trouble. Most retailation Zhins I faced play as front line damage rather than flankers because it allows them to be near invincible. Get in the enemies face, counter to get behind them, attack or billow to safety, counter again to protect the front line, whirl and attack any enemy who is near dead.
    Most of what you said was RETALIATION GAMEPLAY. It's exactly the gameplay I WANT NERFED but people keep wanting Zhin's base kit nerfed. His base kit is not the issue, Retaliation is.

    Until it is nerfed, I suggest you play CC heavy champions, champions with good escapes, AoE champions, and Makoa. All I want is for Zhin not to get overnerfed like Maeve. I think Retaliation should be limited, but only through the legendary.
    How to counter Zhin: run away lol, or just play any tank.

    Main Tanks:
    Ash, Nando, Makoa.

    Main Damage:
    Grover, Bomb King, Sha Lin

    Main Healer:
    M a l ' D a m b a

    Main flank:
    Avatar relevant.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sappinmahsentry View Post
    Most of what you said was RETALIATION GAMEPLAY. It's exactly the gameplay I WANT NERFED but people keep wanting Zhin's base kit nerfed. His base kit is not the issue, Retaliation is.

    Until it is nerfed, I suggest you play CC heavy champions, champions with good escapes, AoE champions, and Makoa. All I want is for Zhin not to get overnerfed like Maeve. I think Retaliation should be limited, but only through the legendary.
    Why did you even address me then? This was literally my first post.

    The only problem with Zhin is his retaliation legendary. It allow him to counter for so long that he can pull of a sequence of counter, billow, counter, whirl, attack, counter. 90% of Zhins I fight always max out chronos to abuse this combo. Zhin becomes unstoppable if he has his team around. You will always die before he can be killed.

    Retaliation needs to be reworked so that counter now deals damage relative to the target's hp. Something like 35-50% of a target's hp. This makes counter strong and gives Zhin a good burst but it also allows counter to be disabled by a single attack like normal."

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_black_of_sin View Post
    Why did you even address me then? This was literally my first post.

    The only problem with Zhin is his retaliation legendary. It allow him to counter for so long that he can pull of a sequence of counter, billow, counter, whirl, attack, counter. 90% of Zhins I fight always max out chronos to abuse this combo. Zhin becomes unstoppable if he has his team around. You will always die before he can be killed.

    Retaliation needs to be reworked so that counter now deals damage relative to the target's hp. Something like 35-50% of a target's hp. This makes counter strong and gives Zhin a good burst but it also allows counter to be disabled by a single attack like normal."
    I completely missed that post, my bad. I apologize for the inconvenience. And yeah, I think that 35% health would be great. It would both nerf retaliation in a frontline sense while buffing it in a flank sense. It's basically a trade off of survivability vs damage. good on you!
    How to counter Zhin: run away lol, or just play any tank.

    Main Tanks:
    Ash, Nando, Makoa.

    Main Damage:
    Grover, Bomb King, Sha Lin

    Main Healer:
    M a l ' D a m b a

    Main flank:
    Avatar relevant.

  6. #26
    Member Viscount Thales3002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AIyash View Post
    his projectiles are big... too big to dodge with strafing.. make them a bit faster and a lot smaller... atleast the horizontal ones
    the slashes are longer than the blade.
    yes his CD are very very low and his kit very VERY forgiving compared to other flanks.. move out while immune? reflect away all damages while moving away to safety or to get in...

    he heals off enemy turrets !!
    the definition of 'successful counter' (as used in cards) should be changed to use counter AND hit the melee shot on a player (not deployable) to get healing
    or his heals should be nerfed on that card. as he can heal and then still run away on billo and they have low CD and are so much ready..
    Cauterize.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thales3002 View Post
    Cauterize.
    You mean deft hands, right? :^)
    How to counter Zhin: run away lol, or just play any tank.

    Main Tanks:
    Ash, Nando, Makoa.

    Main Damage:
    Grover, Bomb King, Sha Lin

    Main Healer:
    M a l ' D a m b a

    Main flank:
    Avatar relevant.

  8. #28
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    I'll say nerf

    increase cooldown of Counter + Billow
    whenever he does this, his much pain in the ass he starts healing full HP while in billow like WTF!
    his VERY ANNOYING to deal with in this mode. you need to 2 vs 1 him to kill, or someone agile that can chase and burst him after his CD. especially with someone that have Fan the Flames 4 100% CD on kill very annoying to deal with.

    like The_black_of_sin said people will abuse these two skill + duration cards + CD item.

    or

    lower his dmg Inferno Blade like -100 dmg. 350 quick swing and 600 heavy swing.

    or

    lower wide AOE of his Inferno Blade too hard to dodge especially if your character doesn't have some escape kits from his dash*Whirl* and billow.
    Last edited by CoolingPowder; 09-11-2017 at 02:03 PM.

  9. #29
    Member Prince IvJo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sappinmahsentry View Post
    You mean deft hands, right? :^)
    That explains a lot, even if it's a joke, only those players make those types of jokes.

    Quote Originally Posted by CoolingPowder View Post
    I'll say nerf
    What you're basically saying is: I play Lian a lot and I can't beat Zhin so he needs to be nerfed.
    Do I get that right?

    Also, someone who knows what he does will know what to buy to Counter him: Cauterize.

    PS: Retaliation Zhin is stil better than Smolder Zhin.
    Last edited by IvJo; 09-11-2017 at 02:19 PM.
    Terminus Main.

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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by IvJo View Post
    That explains a lot, even if it's a joke, only those players make those types of jokes.



    What you're basically saying is: I play Lian a lot and I can't beat Zhin so he needs to be nerfed.
    Do I get that right?

    Also, someone who knows what he does will know what to buy to Counter him: Cauterize.

    PS: Retaliation Zhin is stil better than Smolder Zhin.
    even with other damagers and healers his pain in the ass.

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