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Thread: How Hi-Rez Makes Games, and Expectations for Beta

  1. #101
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    Principle #1: Isn't that what the PTS is for? What good is the PTS if you release the patch with all its flaws into the wilds a week later? You're too focused on making Champions and cosmetics that you can't see that you are losing people who call this game home.

    Principle #2: See Tribes. Ripperoni.

    Principle #3: You are open. I love that about you, but you need to be open to us and our feedback. We know what kills a game community.

    Principle #4: There is trying and there is full on forcusing. No one wants this new patch. I have no idea why you took something that was perfect and turned it into a burning trash pile. I have no idea why you thought this was a good idea. If it sounded crazy on paper, then maybe it should have stayed as an idea.

    Principle #5: Thank you, you are good at this.

    Principle #6: You do patch frequently and you do add tons of content, but I don't think you are learning from each patch. numerous bugs, nerfs and buffs show that no one is listening to the community. Specially if it keeps happening over and over.

    Principle #7: They will happen, and its to be expected, but you go back to #6 where you say you will learn from each patch. Will you learn anything from patch 64?

    Principle #8: I'm still waiting on this one. What players are you getting YOUR insight from? Not the commoners that like to play this game for fun and not for money.

    Principle #9: This is your best trait and I love you for it.

    Principle #10: Not after this patch you won't. Like Smite, you earn most of your money by making cosmetics or special game modes for people to play/use. This are not happened in Paladins, not the game modes anyways. Cosmetics are nice to have but when you give the same 4 champions new skins every patch and forget that you have a ton others, you limit your own income. Also, asking someone to spend 300 Crystals on a chest that has 30 times in it for a slim chance to get a skin is silly.

    You fear that people will judge Paladins on what it is now. With all the heat you brought on yourselves with this insanely idiotic patch, you will be judged. I just hope this game doesn't go the same course as Tribes did.

  2. #102
    Beta Player Baron Lord_Ilpalazzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiRezStew View Post
    Ten years ago, a bunch of lunatics with no game industry experience, led by our CEO Erez Goren, were crazy enough to start a game company. Our goal was always to build "games as a service" -- meaning games that were built from their core around the idea of being frequently updated and shaped by vibrant communities.

    Paladins is now our fourth game we've created, the most successful being SMITE.

    Over the last 10 years, we've had some massive failures and screw ups, but I like to think we have continually improved.

    We were one of the first game developers in the Western (Non-Asian) market to attempt to build very high-quality Free-to-Play games. We've learned a lot, and now are at least smart enough to know how much more we still have to learn!

    Because our history and company background is different, our approach to developing games and running betas may be different from what you have experienced with other developers.

    In order to really understand what you are testing and how to help us shape the best game we can, I think it is important for our players to understand some of the principles that underly our game development. Without this, I fear people will pre-judge Paladins based on "what it is now" versus "what it will become with your help."

    So here are some things I want you to know about how we build games:

    Principle #1: Start public testing as early as you can, and let the community help shape the game's development.

    Our goal is always to start closed beta testing as soon as we feel we have basic core gameplay and systems in place. We know a lot of things aren't finished or fully polished. But we want your feedback to help us shape where we take the game.

    Principle #2: No game is ever done. Labels such as "Closed Beta", "Open Beta", "Released" are mostly artificial marketing milestones.

    We will, of course, have big milestones around a Closed Beta (maybe even with multiple "phases"), as well as an Open Beta and a Launch. But really these are just partly artificial marketing milestones. Games are never done. We believe in frequently patching and improving.

    Principle #3: Be open.

    Streaming and video content creation is allowed from Day One. In some ways, this is dangerous for us, since it means that, years from now, when the game has evolved well beyond the point it is now -- this content will still be out there and may give people a false impression of the current state of the game. (I still cringe when I see some of the early SMITE videos). But, overall, the benefits of being open and transparent outweight the risks.

    [NOTE: One reason we LOVE for people to stream our game during beta is that we watch the streams religously. Watching other people play our games gives us insight into what is and isn't working well that is hard to get any other way.]

    Principle #4: Don't be afraid to try lots of crazy shit while you are beta.

    We'll do some stuff and try some experiments in beta that will seem very stupid and crazy. And they just may be. Old-time testers of SMITE can probably relay some of the insane stuff we did during that beta.

    But sometimes these experiments help us learn things about our game that are really important and inform future design. When we run a bad experiment, we will work hard to fix it up as quickly as we can!

    Principle #5: Initially worry most about gameplay and fun. We can improve the art quality and general polish later on.

    There may be times when we introduce new features or champions or maps before their art quality is at a level that is ideal for us. That's because we want to make sure the gameplay is right before we apply tons of art resources in a direction that isn't working. As gameplay and fun solidify, we will come back around and make the art great.

    Principle #6: Patch frequently, add new content constantly, learn from each patch.

    I think this one is self-explanatory.

    Principle #7: When you are doing #6, bugs and balance issues will happen.

    We will move fast and patch frequently. It's hard to do that in a way that is bug free and perfectly balanced. During the beta phase especially, we prefer to move quick and fix quick -- versus delaying the learning experiences that we know we will get when people try the new things we are testing.

    Principle #8: Use data and stats religously to mine insights on player behavior.

    We will read the forums and the Reddit and the user surveys religiously and shape a lot of the game around the feedback we see. But, sometimes, people have issues or experiences in the game that they can't really verbalize correctly. Being very focused on mining the right data to see what is and isn't working is very important.

    Principle #9: Let people play with their friends.

    If you are in our beta and playing regularly, we will setup systems to make sure you can get your friends into the beta.

    Principle #10: Make money, but do so in a fair way that respects your community.

    We are extremely strong believers that Free to Play is a fantastic business model for gaming. But it needs to be done in a fair way that isn't "Pay to Win." That's harder to achieve than you may think, and bear with us as we balance the game around that philosophy. But I think people that have been with us for a while know that we work hard to build fair systems for our players and hugely respect the experience of players that never pay us a dime.
    You're destroying Paladins with #9 and #10

    No way I can get friends to play with Cards Unbound. Heck even I don't want to play with that horrible system. And it's going straight into a pay 2 win setup that literally kills games. Hi-Rez follow your own principles.

    Even your #1 Rule says "Trust your fans and your data"

    HiRez Chris our Lord and Savior

  3. #103
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    Just test the patch release ob64 and wait.if that becomes a issue they will change it.We are the beta tester's.let them learn through our interests.

    I love paladins a lot waiting for whats lurking in the coming patch (good/bad).i am happy

  4. #104
    Beta Player Viscount AsphyxiaXT's Avatar
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    You've broken a lot of your principles in OB64. Hopefully my explanations below helps HiRez understand their errors.

    Breaking Principle #1 pretty bad considering there is a petition with over 5700 signatures right now asking for cards unbound to NOT be implemented in to the game.

    Breaking Principle #3 because you're not really communicating or interacting with the players of the game on the issues we've been expressing since the OB64 announcement.

    I suppose you're right on with Principle #4 - because Cards Unbound is certainly trying some crazy shit that screws your entire player base and NO ONE WANTS IT.

    Breaking Principle #5 because you're taking the fun out of the game and destroying the balance with OB64's cards system and "quick play" system.

    Breaking Principle #9 because as I am Diamond, I can no longer play with my friends that are below Platinum in competitive, and when OB64 drops, I won't be able to play with them at all because they can't afford to level cards and neither can I for quick play.

    Breaking Principle #10 because it doesn't seem to be making money in a fair way to throw a new card system at us that requires us to spend money to be able to play the "quick play" fairly since whoever spends more money will have higher level cards and an advantage in the game. It really reminds me of MMOs where people can drop cash on epic gear and dominate anyone who doesn't have that gear.

    So since you've broken 5 of your 10 Principles with OB64, maybe you should consider giving that petition a read and reading some of the posts your community has been making about the patch and STOP BEING COMMITTED TO A TERRIBLE CARD SYSTEM

    PS: Fire whoever came up with the Cards Unbound idea.
    Last edited by AsphyxiaXT; 12-05-2017 at 11:12 AM.
    The Insane

    Please revert Kinessa's scope!

  5. #105
    Beta Player Baronet cRikhard's Avatar
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    Starting with principle number one: That is awesome. Stay with it.

    Number 2: The game is never done if developers always implement new mechanics with minimal testing resulting in hostile player experience with countless bugs. That is okay if developers would actually iron out the bugs and glitches before e.g. implementing a new mechanic. Perfect the current ones before implementing a new one. It draws parallels to an ADHD kid with a very short capacity of concentration. "Gets excited about something new, does not finish it, starts a new project and getting excited about it."

    Number 3: Be open to the cancellation of Cards unbound. Balance the new legendaries and scrap the cards unbound as in the whole system. Openness meant the interactive discussion and relationship between the developers and the community. If we don't want a cake, stop giving us a low carb cake. Tweaks will not cut it.

    Number 4: You've tried cards unbound in PTS. It failed miserably. Not a single person likes it. Here are the summarized reasons:
    New players don't like it since it requires way more grinding than it's necessary. Casual is unbalanced since older casual players have a statistical advantage with more cards and higher leveled cards. => They will corrupt the rank mode, since it's more balanced, but has different basic rules then casual by having all cards set at level 3. The pressure of doing well will drag them down resulting in, experienced players getting frustrated by them and leaving new players a bad memory of ranked gaming.
    Old players that actually have done the grind to get the existing cards will have to the grind again, but now the grind is exponentially more frustrating and long. In addition, Players who used actual money for the game has to cough up even more money suddenly "complete" the game.

    Number 5: It is fun as it is. Don't fix what is not broken. What actually isn't fun are the game-breaking bugs, but you know. "We can polish it later (never)". Top of all that the cards unbound is not a fun mechanic.

    Number 6: What happened to learning part? What did you learn from the original essence system? Absolutely nothing. Stop being greedy and put the player base first.

    Number 7: Oh really never noticed a bug............... It's great to acknowledge that. Props.

    Number 8: Example 1 of thousands why the system is bad: spending hours and hours of opening chests to try to get a legendary or any card to level 5 and not succeeding in that. You use the data and yet still want to obliviously release the cards unbound.

    Number 9: (Y)

    Number 10: HAHAHAHA. You abandoned this principle, haven't you? With the feedback of not wanting the cards unbound and still decide to release in the next patch? Is that respect? No. In reason to get respected, one must first respect. With the stubbornness of still trying so hard with cards unbound, you've just lost all my respect.


  6. #106
    Beta Player Baronet
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    Don't try to argue or something, I'm just writing my opinion on these:

    I didn't try PTS yet but I like having it

    If you continue with each patch like you are doing now, please leave it in Open Beta

    That's okay

    Yeah thank you for 'trying something special' was grinding 2 months or so for those crystals so i can buy a set for 400 crystals for champion I like, but when I finally purchase it, the next day THE SAME SET IS ON 25% or more on discount. Happened many times before even those discount were announced

    Releasing 10 champions before even taking care of first patch problem is bad enough

    Sorry, but sad to say..Looking by each patch, seems like you didn't learn much and you lose people more and more with each patch and in-game toxicity( this can't be helped much since each game has negative players, but could be easly more prevented with some kind of black list, black flag system to mark toxic players to prevent playing with them again), including myself

    You rather focus on unbalanced champions and skins and not lags,bugs issues, server issues to make it playable first ( you can say you are focusing on such problems but it really cannot be seen like you doing something)

    As for OB64 I see majority of people are against it. Even those 'pro paladins on youtube' are against it and we know how important their opinion is for you, Hi-Rez. But it's your game ,do whatever you like and you have all rights to shape your game the way you want. I know some people are always against some/new things in each patch, but if it's such a big community against something , it's probably time to think of this again. Card system we have atm is great, the only thing which was fun and simple yet fun to grind for, you can grind and not having to spend whole life on paladins to even grind for all cards.

    I hope not alot people will start when OB64 will be implemented

    Make money = yes,
    In the way that respects your community = I don't see it really that way
    If you'd maybe listen community more maybe, just MAYBE, this game would be more balanced. ( not for every little thing of course)

    That's my opinion of these, maybe some are mixed up a bit, i didn't come here to argue or talking with facts, just stated how I see it my way, may be stupid, may be retarded or anything else. I stopped playing since last 2-3 patches cause it is going downhill with in-game respect, causal and competitive and also how the game is at the moment is not even enjoyable. I login from time to time to check what's new, to say hello to some friends but that's it. I really hate to see such great game slowly turning into a fallen one with unbalancing content. I enjoyed every bit of playing Paladins but I don't see a point to continue playing at this time, really hope you change onto better so I/others who quit, to return to play and make a revolution. Take care and good luck
    Ying waifu

  7. #107
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    Something just came to me, when I saw that post about new Tribes game and the worst paladins patch in a same time.
    If you are trying to milk then kill Paladins for a New game no1 should ever play any of your games ever again, coz that will mean that you do not care about making a good game with stable community, which Paladins is, but that you only care about trying to make a "NEW BIG THING" coz just remember that Paladins might have been that New BIG THING if OW was not released b4, but I hardly doubt that and here is why: Even if you had released Paladins b4 OW and it started big, one of the big companies would just make a similar game with better marketing and more polish, just remember that WoW was not the 1st mmo, and that BF/CoD were not the 1st shooters, and LoL was not the 1st MOBA, not even DOTA was.

    You can not plan to make a New big thing, that just happens sometimes, if someone rly makes a good game that people love for some reason, trying to hit it big and killing a good games in order to do it is not very good way to make games. EA and only EA can survive being a company that is hated by every single community, just thing what would Blizzard be if it were to piss off millions of their fanboys.
    Want to participate in creating the lore:
    Unofficial Lore Project
    Skye: Unofficial Lore Should I do another basic character lore ?

  8. #108
    Beta Player Baronet ShadowKirby87's Avatar
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    I didn't know who hirez was until smite made it way on the consoles. Smite was my first, paladins is my second and last game I'll play from hirez on my PS4. Will not download anymore of their games in the future. They wanna kill paladins so they can work on that PUBG knockoff then so be it.

  9. #109
    Beta Player Knight
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowKirby87 View Post
    I didn't know who hirez was until smite made it way on the consoles. Smite was my first, paladins is my second and last game I'll play from hirez on my PS4. Will not download anymore of their games in the future. They wanna kill paladins so they can work on that PUBG knockoff then so be it.
    same Hi-Rez just dont give a crap about the community. The new OB64 notes will make it even more grindy and they dont care at all.
    What a bunch of hypocrites .

  10. #110
    Beta Player Grand Prince NaixSenpai's Avatar
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    when i look at #5 notes and this
    Principle #1: Start public testing as early as you can, and let the community help shape the game's development.
    its just dont fit DONT FIT
    (っ◔◡◔)っ Ty best Mod,

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