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BlackUndead
03-01-2018, 05:50 AM
So recently she’s been added to the ranked. When i noticed that, I didnt think much about it. But after a few games, i had to go agains plenty of mojis which were constantly destroying my team. I thought about what could be done to her to make her less dangerous. She’s not exactly op but she’s definitely not balanced.
First thing is that she needs a reload. If we ignore the fact that players dont have to aim, instead they only need to just hold down the two buttons on their mice, it seems as if there’s a constant damage and deals around 1000 dmg under two seconds, which is unusual for a flanker. So maybe adding a reload on both of her abilities, would help other players survive her. Like Fernando has a reload for his flame and all other champions that also have a reload (apart from Maeve, however with her players need to aim as she fires her projectiles only once a second).
Another issue i have with her is the fire range. You would think that being a few meters away would keep you safe, but her fire has insane range that also increases her base damage. Decreasing the range to maybe Fernando’s or less would help. It shouldn’t make her any less viable as she still has the ither head the cam fire shots at a long distance.


PS. I’ve seen a post that suggested adding dmg fall off to Maeve. I kinda disagree witht that as it’s kinda hard to land her daggers from a distance due to the physics of her projectiles. There’s also a 50% chance that the player may not land both of the daggers so the damage would only be 400. Lowering her base damage is also not very helpful. Most champions have a higher dps than her. Even healers and tanks, which makes it hard for her to duel them.

undeadvillan
03-01-2018, 05:59 AM
Solution:

Where is your teams flank? They should have no problem shutting her down.
She has no 1v1 capability which is where she falls flat.

Every other flank can beat her pretty clean in a stand off.

- She has the biggest hitbox next to terminus making it impossible to miss.
- Her shield gimmick is pretty easy to read and no fall for.
- Loudest foot steps in the game.
- Her escape option has very slow start up.

She is decent it takes you playing with the character to really know how easy it is to beat her ass.

Atilah
03-01-2018, 06:30 AM
First thing is that she needs a reload. If we ignore the fact that players dont have to aim, instead they only need to just hold down the two buttons on their mice, it seems as if there’s a constant damage and deals around 1000 dmg under two seconds, which is unusual for a flanker.

Androxus: 580 dmg every 0,36s = 2s = 3222 dmg
Buck: 700 dmg every 1s = 2s = 1400 dmg
Evie: 850 dmg every 1s = 2s = 1700 dmg
Lex: 350 dmg every 0,25s = 2s = 2800 dmg
Maeve: 800 dmg every 1,05s = 2s = 1523dmg (or just 1600 without counting the second dagger hits slower than the first)
Skye: 130 dmg every 0,10s = 2s = 2600 dmg
Talus: 110 dmg every 0,10s = 2s = 2200 dmg (not counting overcharge 2200 +33% and/or blitz upper +600 dmg).
Zhin: 800 dmg every 2s = 2s = 1600 dmg

So, it's very usual to see a flank dealing more than 1000 dmg under two seconds. In fact, all of them does. And most of these flanks can deal more dmg landing headshot.

Tharindu207
03-01-2018, 07:18 AM
I feel like the problem with Moji is not the balance but her kit itself. I'm no flank expert but aren't flanks supposed to be the creative-thinking, tricky champions? Moji's hold rmb+lmb kit doesn't give much space for creative ways to flank, at least imo. I think this is the reason why most people use Moji as a damage instead of a flank. Maybe they should rework her kit before attempting to balance her..

BlackUndead
03-01-2018, 04:22 PM
Yeah, reworking it would probably help a lot more rather than changing her dmg especially because it changes as it depends on how many of her “magic marks” she has (not sure if that the right name tho). If they’re going to rework her kit, they might as well change the sounds she does while firing. Honestly they sound a bit disturbing to me.

BlackUndead
03-01-2018, 04:26 PM
When you put it like that, surely she isnt that bad. However it’s still an issue since players dont have to aim as much with her, and the damage in constant, so there are no breaks between the damage. In some situations this makes her very difficult to kill especially for supports and damages with low awareness or slow projectiles/low health.

MrsCrii
03-01-2018, 04:34 PM
Actually you do have to aim with Moji. If you just spray & pray you'll hit a fair bit with the second head but very very little with the left one. And that's where the real damage is. If you don't aim you're not going to do much damage. Moji is in a pretty good place as is, you even admit yourself she isn't OP.

ernhn
03-02-2018, 01:11 PM
I think Moji is only good when she's around other teammates to defend the middle or push the payload. Every flank is different than the other. Moji has massive hitboxes and every sniper or sniper like champions can kill her in a second without a trouble. So she can't really flank on them. But she's very useful at killing supports who are behind tanks to heal them. So I don't find her OP because she can't really kill anyone she wants like Buck or Talus and she doesn't have crazy mobility like Buck or Maeve and she can't deal high burst damage like Buck or Androxus. I find her a supporter flank because all of her legendaries seem like what a support should have. I usually use Toot legendary because I play her as i mentioned above, around my teammates to help them capture instead of going 1v1 and Toot gives everyone including herself healing and movement boost every 3s for 6s. Which is so cool. I don't really think she needs any nerfs. She's just really different from other flanks and that's why almost everyone is so confused by her.

kingasce13
03-03-2018, 10:44 AM
Androxus: 580 dmg every 0,36s = 2s = 3222 dmg
Buck: 700 dmg every 1s = 2s = 1400 dmg
Evie: 850 dmg every 1s = 2s = 1700 dmg
Lex: 350 dmg every 0,25s = 2s = 2800 dmg
Maeve: 800 dmg every 1,05s = 2s = 1523dmg (or just 1600 without counting the second dagger hits slower than the first)
Skye: 130 dmg every 0,10s = 2s = 2600 dmg
Talus: 110 dmg every 0,10s = 2s = 2200 dmg (not counting overcharge 2200 +33% and/or blitz upper +600 dmg).
Zhin: 800 dmg every 2s = 2s = 1600 dmg

So, it's very usual to see a flank dealing more than 1000 dmg under two seconds. In fact, all of them does. And most of these flanks can deal more dmg landing headshot.

You have a lot of stats in their wrong

Leafstorm
03-03-2018, 03:37 PM
Androxus: 580 dmg every 0,36s = 2s = 3222 dmg
Buck: 700 dmg every 1s = 2s = 1400 dmg
Evie: 850 dmg every 1s = 2s = 1700 dmg
Lex: 350 dmg every 0,25s = 2s = 2800 dmg
Maeve: 800 dmg every 1,05s = 2s = 1523dmg (or just 1600 without counting the second dagger hits slower than the first)
Skye: 130 dmg every 0,10s = 2s = 2600 dmg
Talus: 110 dmg every 0,10s = 2s = 2200 dmg (not counting overcharge 2200 +33% and/or blitz upper +600 dmg).
Zhin: 800 dmg every 2s = 2s = 1600 dmg

You have a lot of stats in their wrong
Which ones? I did the math, and he got all the Numbers right (exept the zhin part with 800 dmg, But i guess he noticed that too). Am i missing something?

M3RC3N4RI0
03-04-2018, 08:52 AM
Moji deals around 1000 damage in 1 second though not in 2 seconds.

Sterben
03-04-2018, 10:10 AM
The only OP and need of nerf its Talus

GreenNatureP
03-05-2018, 10:40 PM
the problem is that moji doesn't require aim to get over 2000 dmg in 2 seconds. Just hold and every time it will work. Other champs need aim and players can strafe to avoid their shots while moji is just a continuous widespread beam.

stesc5
03-05-2018, 11:57 PM
Are you sure this is a beam and not dragon (?) vomit?
My daughter saw Moji in the champ overview and told me she is soooo cute! And when she saw her in a game she was disgusted.

ernhn
03-06-2018, 03:13 AM
the problem is that moji doesn't require aim to get over 2000 dmg in 2 seconds. Just hold and every time it will work. Other champs need aim and players can strafe to avoid their shots while moji is just a continuous widespread beam.

Wrong. Her left click needs aiming. Her right click doesn't really. And right click does very little damage and useless without left click. So she needs aiming. Also "doesn't need aiming" can apply to almost all AOE dealers if you want to talk about it. Such as Bomb King with his latest legendary. Or Drogoz with his fire spit+left click. Or Evie's ice staff in close range. Or Talus's blitz upper. Or Pip's catalyst legendary+left click. Or Ash's weapon because it explodes mid air and still deals damage.

Every champions needs different kind of aiming. All the champs I listed need aiming too but they're all different. Just like Moji. Some champs are noob friendly, some champs require more practice. Moji is currently one of the most squishy flanks in the game alongside Evie and Skye. Because Moji is only good in close range.

Y'all need more practicing before complaining how OP Moji is. Because she's not. Learn when and how to attack her. She's mostly terrible in 1v1, mid-range.

kingasce13
03-06-2018, 10:45 AM
Which ones? I did the math, and he got all the Numbers right (exept the zhin part with 800 dmg, But i guess he noticed that too). Am i missing something?

Nvm I was thinking about older stats for some reason and forgot these were the current ones my fault.

Anarchick
03-07-2018, 09:31 AM
I play all tank (except Terminus) and Moji deal so much dmg on me and the second tank in 2/3s. An other flank can kill Moji in 1v1 but it's harder(~80% impossible) to kill her with tank, healer, dmg !! In 1v1, imagine 2v1 O.O !

With a tank, i can survive 2vMe or 3vMe but impossible MojivMe :(

I think Moji need :
a reload cooldown
+1.5s on Magic protection cooldown
+1s Magic protection duration but impossible to cancel the spell earler
add a CAP of amount of healing during magic protection (like max 800Hp)
add +10% speed during Magic protection
Remove bonus dmg (=the star icon) if we shoot her during Magic protection (think about bad ping ... who shoot her accidently) but keep bonus dmg with flame.
Reduce -30% range of flame
increase range of her Ult (too hard to use her Ult), a small range, but more than OB66
Reduce cooldown of her escape by 1s (too long to wait the next dash)

Maybe increase by 5 or 10% the time between 2 Left click ? idk

And fix the bug of her flamme who bypass all shields (visual glitch, do not make any dmg) ^^

ernhn
03-07-2018, 02:12 PM
Moji is really good like very good when she's around other teammates. She can support them better than a support or any other flanks. But she compensates it with her bad/decent 1v1 skills. When she's around a Fernando or Ash, she can wreck the enemy team but when she's aloene, she sucks pretty bad. Any unaware player would be crashed by any champion in the game. I think it's not rocket science to attack her. When she's busy with someone else, it's very easy to kill her. The thing about Moji is that she has a high damage output on stationary champions. Like tanks on points or less mobile champions like Lian, Tyra, Vivian. Move around like a crazy person and she's vulnurable.

Zhenonz
03-09-2018, 01:53 AM
Moji is just an annoyance right now. Too much dps, too much sustain. It's stupid. People here are saying you can drop here easy in 1v1 with other flanks, well that's a lie.

I play a lvl 30 zhin and i easily get shutdown by an enemy moji in 1v1, even with smolder. Once she gets that full star on you, there's no way in hell you can beat her in a 1v1. And i'm not even going to touch on how much trouble she is when she's being pocketed by a tank or staying behind one.

tl:dr insane dps, insane sustain, HI-REZ PLZ NERF

I don't see why moji shouldn't be banned in every comp match along with a makoa or torvald.

ernhn
03-09-2018, 02:25 AM
I play a lvl 30 zhin and i easily get shutdown by an enemy moji in 1v1, even with smolder. Once she gets that full star on you, there's no way in hell you can beat her in a 1v1. And i'm not even going to touch on how much trouble she is when she's being pocketed by a tank or staying behind one.


Exactly! But that's how her gameplay was designed probably. When she's behind or next to a ally tank, she's really deadly. You may not be able to kill her with Zhin because they have don't have any vertical mobility. She is really good against champs who are on ground. Zhin is the best flank about self sustain so don't go hard on Moji for her barrier. I do also believe she needs toning down on Toot legendary and on her cooldown cards but she is very vulnurable when her magic barrier once used. Just try to understand how to attack her.

NaixSenpai
03-09-2018, 03:53 AM
after all , all of us know moji need reload system talus need a nerf and skye need huge buff.

Gabbianelloide
03-09-2018, 04:30 AM
What about adding a slow while firing? Like Inara or Fernando's? This would help prevening the rmb+lmb spamming, making the payer actually think when to fire and when to hold on

Hexedian
03-10-2018, 12:41 PM
I think Moji need :
a reload cooldown
Possibly, but not necessarily.


+1.5s on Magic protection cooldown
Maybe more.


+1s Magic protection duration but impossible to cancel the spell earler
It already can't be cancelled.


add a CAP of amount of healing during magic protection (like max 800Hp)
Other champions don't have caps, it doesn't make sense for Moji to have one.


add +10% speed during Magic protection
Maybe as a card.


Remove bonus dmg (=the star icon) if we shoot her during Magic protection (think about bad ping ... who shoot her accidently) but keep bonus dmg with flame.
I'd rather see the amount of magic marks be proportional to the damage dealt, so proper timing against burst-y champions would improve Moji's damage, without making sustain champions suffer too much.


Reduce -30% range of flame
Not if other changes are implemented.


increase range of her Ult (too hard to use her Ult), a small range, but more than OB66
The biggest problem with her ult is it's only useful in melee range; anything more and the enemy can just run away.


Reduce cooldown of her escape by 1s (too long to wait the next dash)
I really can't agree with that, unless her other abilities are severely nerfed.



Maybe increase by 5 or 10% the time between 2 Left click ? idk
Technically, if you just spam left and right click, you don't get the full damage of magic mark; magic mark does significantly more damage when maxed, so decreasing her left click speed would not decrease her damage (unless the player misses a lot)



And fix the bug of her flamme who bypass all shields (visual glitch, do not make any dmg) ^^

What about decreasing the dino head size in first person? I'm not a fan of third person view.

Shadowpuppy
03-12-2018, 04:49 AM
People keep saything that his AOE doesn't do any damage. It does 500 a second of unmissable damage.
If this is true then wtf is up with Barik ????

Moji does way to much damage and has way to much healing in his cards.
The magic mark should be removed from the shield, its just to easy and does way to much.

Block all damage on a short cool down and gives him huge damage potential when he comes out of it.

Sterben
03-12-2018, 10:17 AM
Try to kill her with Vivian.....
Thats the Hard Counter to Moji

Zio_Xeno
03-12-2018, 04:59 PM
Try to kill her with Vivian.....
Thats the Hard Counter to Moji

Actually no vivian is no counter. the only counter is to kill the healer and then, maybe she can be killed.

M3RC3N4RI0
03-12-2018, 09:25 PM
Actually no vivian is no counter. the only counter is to kill the healer and then, maybe she can be killed.Moji has self-heal. The only weak spot I see till now is that her sight is blocked by those two dragon heads. When they attack it's hard to keep the overview.

Moonsand7
03-12-2018, 10:37 PM
Wrong. Her left click needs aiming. Her right click doesn't really. And right click does very little damage and useless without left click. So she needs aiming. Also "doesn't need aiming" can apply to almost all AOE dealers if you want to talk about it. Such as Bomb King with his latest legendary. Or Drogoz with his fire spit+left click. Or Evie's ice staff in close range. Or Talus's blitz upper. Or Pip's catalyst legendary+left click. Or Ash's weapon because it explodes mid air and still deals damage.

I main flank. Recently I've tried Moji and here are the conclusions I came to.

First of all, those of you who say that Moji deals 1000 dmg in 2s should do the math. Even without magic marks Moji does around 1900 damage. Add marks and you will get up to 3300 damage in 2 seconds.

Her ult bypasses damage immunity, which means she can yum ulting Nando, Ash and Lian, among others. If used right, her ult becomes a true game changer.

About Moji's aim, let's see compare it to other flanks.
As Moji you don't have to:


Constantly click (Lex, Buck, Andro, Evie)
Deal with screen shacking (Andro)
Time your slow projectiles and avoid self-damage (Evie)
Deal with slow attack speed (Evie, Buck, Maeve)
Deal with projectile decay (Maeve)
Manage your ammo magazine (Everyone except Maeve)


He is what you do have to do:


Point and hold both mouse buttons
...that's it


All of the above means that while Moji does require some skill, she cannot really be compared to other flanks. Damn, she's easier to play than Lex. This says a lot.
Now, if you know what you are doing, she also becomes a carry, a game changer. As you've said, Moji is FLank/Support, except that unlike most supports, Moji has ways to stay alive and deal some serious damage.

SRant
03-13-2018, 01:11 AM
Androxus: 580 dmg every 0,36s = 2s = 3222 dmg
I sopped reading at that point, andro has 580 dmg every 0.36s, right, but you miss the reload, also firing at 0.36s per shot implicates it's maximum recoil possible, good luck landing all those shoots

ThunderZsolt
03-13-2018, 03:08 AM
Where do people get that Moji is bad at 1v1?

When she gets low on HP just activates magic barrier, which heals her and removes cauterize and if you accidentally hit it, she deals maximum bonus damage to you, which is way more than 1000/second with no reload btw.

She is almost as annoying to fight as Zhin (but deals moch more damage) - only reliable way to kill her is to burst down very quickly, and not much champions can do that. Definately needs a longer CD on magic barrier, or it needs to be directional, like reversal or Zhin's counter.


And she is easy AF to use. Even if you have to aim, you have no recoil, no reload, you don't need to position well because of the low CD of magic barrier and scamper, you get lots of self heal...

Zio_Xeno
03-13-2018, 06:24 PM
Moji has self-heal. The only weak spot I see till now is that her sight is blocked by those two dragon heads. When they attack it's hard to keep the overview.

i know that she has selfheal, but if the moji is constantly under healing she is immortal, scamper is not that good if she is alone against multiple, and even if alone against one, she needs to confuse him by scamper and immediately magic barrier. The self heal is strong but while you scamper you are an easy prey, believe me, lately i've been playing her a lot, and if you have an healer that helps you then you are effectively immortal, while alone she is easy to take down.

Heimpai
03-13-2018, 09:04 PM
Wrong. Her left click needs aiming. Her right click doesn't really. And right click does very little damage and useless without left click. So she needs aiming. Also "doesn't need aiming" can apply to almost all AOE dealers if you want to talk about it. Such as Bomb King with his latest legendary. Or Drogoz with his fire spit+left click. Or Evie's ice staff in close range. Or Talus's blitz upper. Or Pip's catalyst legendary+left click. Or Ash's weapon because it explodes mid air and still deals damage.

Every champions needs different kind of aiming. All the champs I listed need aiming too but they're all different. Just like Moji. Some champs are noob friendly, some champs require more practice. Moji is currently one of the most squishy flanks in the game alongside Evie and Skye. Because Moji is only good in close range.

Y'all need more practicing before complaining how OP Moji is. Because she's not. Learn when and how to attack her. She's mostly terrible in 1v1, mid-range.

Your point was invalid the moment you put evie in there..seriously? Still a lot harder in close range than that spray monster you are desperately trying to convince others is fine

NekonataM
03-13-2018, 11:46 PM
Moji needs her cooldowns increased to 8sec for scamper, and 10sec for Magic Barrier.
It's just ridiculous that she can spam her scamper every 2.5 seconds, and her shield every 4.5, and she can heal herself for it ignoring cauterize.

Zio_Xeno
03-14-2018, 12:52 AM
Moji needs her cooldowns increased to 8sec for scamper, and 10sec for Magic Barrier.
It's just ridiculous that she can spam her scamper every 2.5 seconds, and her shield every 4.5, and she can heal herself for it ignoring cauterize.

Actually Moji just needs to reload, if you increase scamper's cooldown you will totally destroy an already weak movement ability, you can use it to ingage but rarely to disingage, magic barrier is really strong and needs some extra seconds of cooldown.

Give her a reload and even with that sustain she will need to think before a fight.

Dovahkat963
03-14-2018, 01:26 AM
Just to add to the balance reasons for adding a reload (of which there area many) let me just throw in a reason from a realistic standpoint. That familiar can constantly spit up and vomit that magic barf nonstop for 10 minutes straight if you so choose. I don't care if it is a magical creature or if Moji has powers beyond comprehension. That thing should not only get tired of vomiting but there shouldn't even be any fluids left in its body after all that! And the only sustenance they get to support this cruel treatment is the occasional Champion dog biscuit...

SocraticPhoenix
03-14-2018, 08:41 AM
I feel like the problem with Moji is not the balance but her kit itself. I'm no flank expert but aren't flanks supposed to be the creative-thinking, tricky champions? Moji's hold rmb+lmb kit doesn't give much space for creative ways to flank, at least imo. I think this is the reason why most people use Moji as a damage instead of a flank. Maybe they should rework her kit before attempting to balance her..

Fun fact: Holding rmb/lmb gives you less DPS then holding rmb and periodically firing when the magic stacks build up.

ernhn
03-14-2018, 08:44 AM
Your point was invalid the moment you put evie in there..seriously? Still a lot harder in close range than that spray monster you are desperately trying to convince others is fine

I am actually trying to make people understand the differences of each champion. I used Evie because she can close the distance between her and the enemy really fast with blink and deal damage on close range to be more accurate. Moji can use Scamper but she can't go as fast as Evie unless Moji uses Toot legendary. Any good damage dealer can kill Moji on mid range. She is only effective from close to mid range. After mid range, she's easily killable with her big hitboxes. I also think she needs longer cooldowns but her damage is not the problem, that's what i implied. She can deal around 750 damage in a secon without a non-stop shooting with both her rmb and lmb. Less than Evie, more than Buck, less than BK, more than Cassie, less than both snipers. But here's the catch, Evies can't always kill her because of her magic barrier. Once she marks you with magic barrier, you need to run for your life. So we need a longer cooldown. Even though Evie is capable of more damage, Moji has better self sustain. But Cassie has less damage per shot, she can kill Moji without a problem. That's why i said every champion needs different kind of aiming and positioning.

TL: DR just increase both her cooldowns 3.5 seconds, she'll be good to go.

SocraticPhoenix
03-14-2018, 08:47 AM
Her ult bypasses damage immunity, which means she can yum ulting Nando, Ash and Lian, among others. If used right, her ult becomes a true game changer.

Her ult does bypass damage immunity, but it is a form of cc. This means that any ult that provides cc immunity to the user counters it. The only ult you listed that she can actually counter is Ash. Both Fernando and Lian are also cc immune in their ult. With regards to Fernando's ult, she can ult Fernando's teammates, but not teammate's itself.

Her ult does this because it deals no damage. Rather it is a form of CC that, under certain conditions, leads to an instant KO. (Compare this to Drogoz's ult, the description of which states that it deals 100% of the targets maximum health as damage).

ernhn
03-14-2018, 08:48 AM
Fun fact: Holding rmb/lmb gives you less DPS then holding rmb and periodically firing when the magic stacks build up.

Yes, that's what i said in another thread. She fires spit every 0.6 and sprays every 0.1 so she has 5 stacks of magic mark before she spits. It deals around 344 damage with 5 stacks BUT 10 stacks of mark deals 775 damage. So she does around 775 in a second if she only sprays and spits after 10th of stack. But deals around 688 damage in a second if she spits+sprays at the same time. She actually needs attack positioning and timing but not many people realise that.

Zio_Xeno
03-14-2018, 09:21 AM
Yes, that's what i said in another thread. She fires spit every 0.6 and sprays every 0.1 so she has 5 stacks of magic mark before she spits. It deals around 344 damage with 5 stacks BUT 10 stacks of mark deals 775 damage. So she does around 775 in a second if she only sprays and spits after 10th of stack. But deals around 688 damage in a second if she spits+sprays at the same time. She actually needs attack positioning and timing but not many people realise that.

Yeah and the only cooldown that needs to be increased is magic barrier, that's too valuable, scamper is actually a shitty sprint, doesn't need nerfs, only a change to the card that heals you if they hit the barrier, a reload on lmb to use that canteen and a way to limit the rmb so she won't be able to spam.

m69
03-20-2018, 10:13 PM
Solution:

Where is your teams flank? They should have no problem shutting her down.
She has no 1v1 capability which is where she falls flat.

Every other flank can beat her pretty clean in a stand off.

- She has the biggest hitbox next to terminus making it impossible to miss.
- Her shield gimmick is pretty easy to read and no fall for.
- Loudest foot steps in the game.
- Her escape option has very slow start up.

She is decent it takes you playing with the character to really know how easy it is to beat her ass.

moji has a lot of 1v1 capacity. go try it yourself in playground and see how much damage it does in such less time.
you just hold both mouse buttons, literally pray n spray

but you have a vivian avatar so i guess you're down to brainless champions XD