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View Full Version : how to bring back infinte roll cassie (so its a high skill - high risk - high reward)



AIyash
02-27-2018, 01:57 PM
Suggestion
Bring back infinte roll cassie

Let incitement reduce cooldown by 2 sec like it is rn
5-2 is 3 sec for rest.. if they hit dodge roll shot
.... For the legendary that gives bonus damage with dodge roll shot
Make the legendary increase the dodge roll cooldown from 5 to 8 seconds
And if you hit dodge roll shot it gives additional cool down reduction
Of 5 seconds.
So .. if you have incitement... And this legendary card
You are 5+2=7 as cooldown
And if you hit dodge roll shot...
You get 6 sec cooldown reduction...
1 sec between rolls
(like old infinte roll cassie... But!!!! The LC gives you infinite roll as option but gives you a higher penalty if you miss)
8 sec of no rolling if you miss
Higher risk higher reward...

DokiDoki11
02-27-2018, 06:02 PM
Suggestion
Bring back infinte roll cassie

Let incitement reduce cooldown by 2 sec like it is rn
5-2 is 3 sec for rest.. if they hit dodge roll shot
.... For the legendary that gives bonus damage with dodge roll shot
Make the legendary increase the dodge roll cooldown from 5 to 7 seconds
And if you hit dodge roll shot it gives additional cool down reduction
Of 5 seconds.
So .. if you have incitement... And this legendary card
You are 5+2=7 as cooldown
And if you hit dodge roll shot...
You get 6 sec cooldown reduction...
1 sec between rolls
(like old infinte roll cassie... But!!!! The LC gives you infinite roll as option but gives you a higher penalty if you miss)
7 sec of no rolling if you miss
Higher risk higher reward...

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/171/293/128874496505848355.jpg

Rauyne
02-27-2018, 06:05 PM
Make Cassie great again. Infinite Roll Cassie should come back she wasn't that powerful she was just very mobile. However with her great mobility came easy predictability.

DokiDoki11
02-27-2018, 06:21 PM
Make Cassie great again. Infinite Roll Cassie should come back she wasn't that powerful she was just very mobile. However with her great mobility came easy predictability.

riiiiiight not powerful last time i check his roll is the op skill she got
also predicting is hard if you got too many fire everywhere and you think you can focus only the roll if you got a enemy fire everywhere

NekonataM
02-27-2018, 06:23 PM
Make Cassie great again. Infinite Roll Cassie should come back she wasn't that powerful she was just very mobile. However with her great mobility came easy predictability.

Why do you want it back if it wasn't that powerful? Isn't she good enough right now?

DokiDoki11
02-27-2018, 06:27 PM
Why do you want it back if it wasn't that powerful? Isn't she good enough right now?

yeah she's ok right now her roll is not that even long on cooldown also her dmg with new legend is her strongest point right now even they nerf it she can still rekt players

i dont have a porb on cassie no infinite roll if you can shove monster dmg on the enemy on a sniper range

NKWiewior
02-27-2018, 08:07 PM
I'll never understand all the whining about exaction Cassie. She required insane accuracy from you and didn't had anything crazy in her kit. The dodge roll isn't even a veritical mobility skill. You missed one shot and you're toast. Simple mathematics. On top of that the damage bonus was way lower than what we have now (Just Breathe, the most boring LC ever.) Cassie is basically what Grover should be. Long range damager and this is not fun to play with or against it. Cry all you want but i want infinite roll Cassie back aswell. Maybe not in the form of OP's suggestion but still.

Rauyne
02-27-2018, 08:37 PM
I'll never understand all the whining about exaction Cassie. She required insane accuracy from you and didn't had anything crazy in her kit. The dodge roll isn't even a veritical mobility skill. You missed one shot and you're toast. Simple mathematics. On top of that the damage bonus was way lower than what we have now (Just Breathe, the most boring LC ever.) Cassie is basically what Grover should be. Long range damager and this is not fun to play with or against it. Cry all you want but i want infinite roll Cassie back aswell. Maybe not in the form of OP's suggestion but still.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make. Cassie has become a back line sniper. A simple point and click Champion like so many others. Infinite Dodge Roll made Cassie versatile. She could Flank, Counter-Flank melt tanks down while rolling circles around them. She didn't deal that much more damage and her new LC/Talent is basically the same as the old Exaction except you don't need skill to use the new LC. Cassie is boring to play as now and has lost a lot of her charm.

SiderumNocte
02-27-2018, 09:37 PM
Honestly the mobility was not even the issue, it aided a legendary which made the legendary broken as fuck in the right hands but the issue never was the dodge roll itself.

All Hi-Rez had to do to fix the issue was place a internal cooldown timer on the Exaction Legendary card to 3/4 seconds.
This would have solved the issue. Hi-Rez misdiagnosed the problem.
It wasn't the constant Dodge Rolls but the constant Damage people got from the dodge roll reset.

There was basically two ways to fix the issue and Hi-Rez took the wrong option.
1) Nerf the ability to get constant Dodge Roll Resets.
2) Somehow limit the damage that came from the Dodge Roll Resets.

All the damage came from the Legendary card and a well implemented Internal Cooldown Timer would have fixed the issue.

The problem: High Constant damage.

Even those who complained about the mobility really only complained about the damage that accompanied it.
So I agree bring back the "Potential Infinite Dodge Roll Resets" because it was the one thing that took some skill.

Windmeow
02-27-2018, 10:43 PM
infinity roll cassie bring nothing but pub stumping

Hexadermia
02-28-2018, 01:54 AM
Fun fact: Infinite roll Cassie is possible after the next update (Albeit somewhat slower)

Chronos III removes 1.5s from Dodge roll CD.

Incitement reduces the cd by 2.5s at level V.

This puts Cassie at 1s cd, which is exactly what the old infinite roll works.

Of course you need chronos III meaning you have to sacrifice caut for infinite roll.

dbzlucky77
02-28-2018, 08:54 AM
Honestly I'd prefer dodge roll cassie to come back versus what we been dealing with now. I don't think i need to say how brain dead just breath cassie was, and her with the COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY buff to her impulse shot speed. It's now her go to legendary because the burst is so damn strong and EASY to hit.

Seriously i RARELY saw cassies that were capable of taking full advantage of her infinite dodge rolls, compared to how many people were destroying with just breathe, and now her impulse legendary

Edit: I forgot to mention, if dodge roll cassie were to come back. I think they would have to nerf her health in return for balance

SuperNyancat
02-28-2018, 09:08 AM
Infinite Dodge roll was not broken, the reason it was broken is because with enough skill Cassie basically have...
40% damage increase, so she deals like 900+ damage each shot
40% lifesteal

so the real reason she was OP is because of the obscene damage and lifesteal that she can 1v1 most of the champions in the game with sheer numbers.
Just nerf the lifesteal and maybe damage increase and it would be a balanced Infinite Roll.

NekonataM
02-28-2018, 10:09 AM
I find this cheap rather than skillful, just as the stunlock Mal'damba had a long time ago.
Just leave Cassie as she is. Or give all the champions' their mobility back, even if it will make those who have no mobility useless. At their current state, is not hard to land those shots as Cassie, if they had more mobility, it would be better.

NKWiewior
02-28-2018, 10:28 AM
infinity roll cassie bring nothing but pub stumping

Your thinking is as shallow as Vivian gameplay.


Honestly the mobility was not even the issue, it aided a legendary which made the legendary broken as fuck in the right hands but the issue never was the dodge roll itself.

All Hi-Rez had to do to fix the issue was place a internal cooldown timer on the Exaction Legendary card to 3/4 seconds.
This would have solved the issue. Hi-Rez misdiagnosed the problem.
It wasn't the constant Dodge Rolls but the constant Damage people got from the dodge roll reset.

There was basically two ways to fix the issue and Hi-Rez took the wrong option.
1) Nerf the ability to get constant Dodge Roll Resets.
2) Somehow limit the damage that came from the Dodge Roll Resets.

All the damage came from the Legendary card and a well implemented Internal Cooldown Timer would have fixed the issue.

The problem: High Constant damage.

Even those who complained about the mobility really only complained about the damage that accompanied it.
So I agree bring back the "Potential Infinite Dodge Roll Resets" because it was the one thing that took some skill.

100% agree with this person. Damage was the problem not mobility. Even when exaction was a thing i always felt like the damage is too high.

QU1KUS3F
02-28-2018, 12:20 PM
"bring Cassie back she sucks" "Cassie is not as good as other champions" Well as far as I've seen from competitive all cassie players always deal more than 100k Damage and being such a pain in the arse and hard to flank. 5 sec is fine and I don't think she deserves a buff as she's one of the best champions currently.

Remember she's a damage champion not flank. So no need for extra buff to her mobility. Her dmg is fine aswell so nothing should be changed



Opinion dont hate me

MerVal
02-28-2018, 03:02 PM
Honestly I'd prefer dodge roll cassie to come back versus what we been dealing with now. I don't think i need to say how brain dead just breath cassie was, and her with the COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY buff to her impulse shot speed. It's now her go to legendary because the burst is so damn strong and EASY to hit.

Seriously i RARELY saw cassies that were capable of taking full advantage of her infinite dodge rolls, compared to how many people were destroying with just breathe, and now her impulse legendary

Edit: I forgot to mention, if dodge roll cassie were to come back. I think they would have to nerf her health in return for balance

This. I rather face an infinite dodge roll cassie than a just breath lc user.

dbzlucky77
02-28-2018, 04:32 PM
"bring Cassie back she sucks" "Cassie is not as good as other champions" Well as far as I've seen from competitive all cassie players always deal more than 100k Damage and being such a pain in the arse and hard to flank. 5 sec is fine and I don't think she deserves a buff as she's one of the best champions currently.

Remember she's a damage champion not flank. So no need for extra buff to her mobility. Her dmg is fine aswell so nothing should be changed



Opinion dont hate me

Dealing more then 100k with a damage champ is nothing special. She was hard to flank before because just breathe would eat you alive before you could get to her. She's hard to flank now because her go to legendary now lets her damn near insta gib you with ease.

At least with dodge roll cassie:
1. It took WAYYYY more skill to be consistent with ( i say this as a former cassie main )

2. You could dodge or block the shot, leaving her extremely vulnerable

Samercam
02-28-2018, 04:48 PM
Why do we need to buff a champion who is still one of the top tier damagers? I don't get it. Infinite roll Cassie being removed was a game design choice. Giving people back their old mobility without giving it to everyone will fundamentally break the game again.

Cassie can have pretty low cooldowns already if she invests in Chronos, and with level 5 cards I'm sure dodge roll Cassie will be a plenty viable gameplay style. We don't need to force it.

Rauyne
02-28-2018, 04:49 PM
Dealing more then 100k with a damage champ is nothing special. She was hard to flank before because just breathe would eat you alive before you could get to her. She's hard to flank now because her go to legendary now lets her damn near insta gib you with ease.

At least with dodge roll cassie:
1. It took WAYYYY more skill to be consistent with ( i say this as a former cassie main )

2. You could dodge or block the shot, leaving her extremely vulnerable

Basically this. The consistent damage balanced out with the fact that she needed to hit every single shot to keep the dodge roll going. It wasn't effective against shields and could be dodged with the right timing.

NKWiewior
02-28-2018, 06:23 PM
Basically this. The consistent damage balanced out with the fact that she needed to hit every single shot to keep the dodge roll going. It wasn't effective against shields and could be dodged with the right timing.

Shields basically countered the exaction playstyle to some degree. Frontliners with shields were the biggest nightmare for a Cassie because:

1. Bonus damage didn't scaled to shields (Worked like Grover's ferocity)
2. You can't proc incitement off a shield. If you shot a shield you were a sitting duck 99% of the time
3. With exaction you've been in the backline most of the time

People whined that "Cassie flanks better than flankers hurr hurr" but nobody thought about taking Cassie counters because "Who needs shields lol" or they just picked a clumsy character with 0 ability to dodge (Torvald, Viktor, Jenos, Makoa, Inara and so on) and complained "ffs this Cassie is too mobile" and that she deals too much damage. Exaction got nerfed by 10% and there were still whiners who complained that "she's better than flanks" i can also say that Pip is better at flanking than Evie and then we're gonna nerf Pip? No because that's the fucking point of this character.


"bring Cassie back she sucks" "Cassie is not as good as other champions" Well as far as I've seen from competitive all cassie players always deal more than 100k Damage and being such a pain in the arse and hard to flank. 5 sec is fine and I don't think she deserves a buff as she's one of the best champions currently.

Remember she's a damage champion not flank. So no need for extra buff to her mobility. Her dmg is fine aswell so nothing should be changed



Opinion dont hate me

She can easily deal 100k damage when you pretty much snipe for 900+ damage per shot. I've been in countless situations where i did a 1k+ burst on someone from a really long range and enemy didn't even realized what happened. And all i got at the end of the match is "I hate you Cassie". Funny and sad at the same time. Right now you need 0 skill to use the new legendary is that what you consider balanced? Exaction required some thinking from you and good aiming/reflexes. She may be the "best" right now but she's certainly not the most skill requiring.

They did the same thing with Androxus made him "noob friendly" with the spray and pray rework and nerfed him by making him take a shot of vodka every time he shoots to make aiming artifically harder and give the user a headache.

AIyash
03-01-2018, 01:45 AM
Infinte roll cassie was hard to counter as she was agile. Her 1v1 was strong... But zhin (2immune move, huge af projectiles that cant be dodged by strafing unless you are with nimble and at medium to long range) has better 1v1. And Cassie arrow hitbox isnt even that big. With the idea that i said.. she would be down left help less for 8 seconds without any buff from LC if she misses a shot or hits a shield

QcDiablo
03-01-2018, 04:45 AM
For those saying "Cassie is already OP" :

1) Buffing Exaction/Incitement build wouldn't affect Just Breathe so...

2) We don't want to buff her, we just want her Roll playstyle back.

I really don't know why we just wouldn't nerf damage output if this is the problem. Nope, instead we destroy a playstyle :/

And of course, if we gave Cassie mobility again, this also includes a buff in mobility for flanks and some other champions.

EDIT - Yes, Cassie is not a flank, but she's been a Flex champion from CB10 to OB62, so I think her Dodge Roll is kinda part of her.

Rauyne
03-01-2018, 06:58 AM
For those saying "Cassie is already OP" :

1) Buffing Exaction/Incitement build wouldn't affect Just Breathe so...

2) We don't want to buff her, we just want her Roll playstyle back.

I really don't know why we just wouldn't nerf damage output if this is the problem. Nope, instead we destroy a playstyle :/

And of course, if we gave Cassie mobility again, this also includes a buff in mobility for flanks and some other champions.

EDIT - Yes, Cassie is not a flank, but she's been a Flex champion from CB10 to OB62, so I think her Dodge Roll is kinda part of her.

Cassie's flexibility is what made her a decent Champion. Also, with the Incitement Legendary most often she would play at mid to close range and dance around her opponents. The new Legendary invokes a sniper type playstyle which means Cassie sits in the back sniping away and only helping your team by lowering the health of your opponents. She isn't anti-flanking that pesky flank that keeps distrupting your team. She isn't flanking the healer that's standing further back from the rest of their team. Her playstyle is now so mindless that all of her attacks should just be auto-aim.

QU1KUS3F
03-01-2018, 08:33 AM
"We don't want to buff her. Just bring back her old playstyle" I mean seriously by bringing that infinite dodge roll back is a buff as it makes enemy tribes having difficult time to hit u. And give u more mobility soo... What do u exactly mean by that's not a buff?

GeSteYiam
03-01-2018, 06:11 PM
It would be nice enough if they changed it so max cooldown reductions was 3 seconds instead of 2 so you could get the inifite roll with the heavy investment of cronos 3 only unlike the old cronos 1

DokiDoki11
03-01-2018, 07:36 PM
is obt67 out now?

QcDiablo
03-01-2018, 08:15 PM
"We don't want to buff her. Just bring back her old playstyle" I mean seriously by bringing that infinite dodge roll back is a buff as it makes enemy tribes having difficult time to hit u. And give u more mobility soo... What do u exactly mean by that's not a buff?

I mean we don't care if (for example) Cassie's damage was reduced by half, we just want her old playstyle back.
And it wouldn't be that much of a buff because you'd need to replace Just Breathe with Incitement.
I think both could be equal in term of "strongness" at high level.

EpplZ
03-02-2018, 06:50 AM
Infinity roll needed timing, aiming and was the only viable play that require more than half a brain cell working, ie : skills, plus this allowed players to be REALLY versatils because of the quick relocation.

Just breathe damage is point n click , ie : pubstomp with only one type of gameplay, snipe from afar.

Having said so, the problem is that Hirez want to cater for less mobile type of population, hence reducing / removing all hyper mobility skills from the game, while increasing damage all over the place, we went from a hero style Q3 arena shooter to a Hero CoD style game.

People these days want to kill fast, die fast and respawn, they dont want a duel to last too long and outplay the opponent, and Hirez went that way.

Cassie wasnt OP with infinity roll, she was just the only one left with that kind of mobility... ergo she needed to lose that. Back when more champion could dash like that, she wasnt standing that far above the crowd, and people had less complaints about her. Asking you this, why did tanks stand out stronger after all the hypermobility removal mess? because they were still able to be hypermobile (nando dash / fireball / dash, makoa anchor + reset on dash when hitting an opponent, ruckus flying all over the place), add that their large HP and bingo, you get yourself a winner. Problem was never hypermobility, problem is that if you remove it from certain champions they become dull and sitting ducks, so its either everyone have it or everyone doesnt, if not it brings inherent inbalance that cannot be tweaked with any "numbers", because the core of the problem is unsolvable.

ZaphirX7
03-02-2018, 07:16 AM
i m a console player.. i think they nerfed Cassie in consequence of the mobility nerf of all the champions probably requested by the noob on consoles, because "ehy I can't aim, I can't play at all if I have to shoot a mobile champion", this thing make angry because the mobility was amazing and the ttk was ok, not not as right now that every champion have thing that buff their damage, watching a person that stand still across the map by holding one button dealing a tons of damage, is funny?? really? In a tournament I love see an intense fight between champions, not a static fight by sniper or 1v1 that last 1 second..

kingasce13
03-02-2018, 10:43 AM
Why do you want it back if it wasn't that powerful? Isn't she good enough right now?

She is OP right now because she has a super boring and broken play style with just breathe we won't both fun and skill brought back besides it makes her much more balanced than stand in the back hitting like a sniper with a super fast fire rate.

DokiDoki11
03-02-2018, 05:29 PM
why give cassie her infinite roll if she can give monster dmg she's too op when she got her infinite roll on her previous time

beside cassie got no dmg falloff so shes already good almost like a sniper

eisthegreatest
03-03-2018, 10:04 PM
Skillful =/= healthy

NKWiewior
03-09-2018, 04:56 AM
why give cassie her infinite roll if she can give monster dmg she's too op when she got her infinite roll on her previous time

beside cassie got no dmg falloff so shes already good almost like a sniper

Sorry but i have to say this.

This is a perfect exaple of braindead person which thinks damage = everything. Can't you understand 2 simple things:

a) Her damage is high because it's a projectile based champion with a really tiny arrow hitbox on top of that
b) Bringing back exaction playstyle wouldn't affect Just Breathe even by a tiniest degree.

People like you are probably one of reasons why hi-rez thinks that if they'll make another Call of Duty with low ttk that it's gonna satisfy people and everone will be happy instead of good arena shooter with MOBA elements. I have to crush your petty view of the world and say that Paladins will never be like before untill Hi-rez will make massive reworks to almost every champion (Especially new ones) and bring certain playstyles back.

m69
03-20-2018, 10:17 PM
infinite roll was cancer, please don't.
it's not a counter strike game, i'd like to play this game even if i don't have 24h/day trained aim, and use my damn brains with cooldown management.

NKWiewior
03-21-2018, 02:06 PM
infinite roll was cancer, please don't.
it's not a counter strike game, i'd like to play this game even if i don't have 24h/day trained aim, and use my damn brains with cooldown management.

If you don't want to train quick reaction in arena shooter then i think this is not a game for you. In the "Golden age" aka before mobility nerfs you had to be constantly aware where are enemies and now gameplay is incredibly static.