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View Full Version : >>> How to Balance Ying <<<



TheLionLegend
02-23-2018, 12:54 PM
1) Increase Illusion healing range (300 ft. same as her LMB)
2) Add healing drop off beyond a certain range (over 100 ft. same as her LMB)
3) Remove the cooldown of shatter (still can't be used when no illusions are alive)
4) Keep the bonus damage of ''Focusing Lens'' the same at any range (it's her high skill talent)

Those are simple changes that will keep Ying easy to understand, and at some depth and strategy to the point she can be viable competitively.

Have a nice day :)

Wallachia
02-23-2018, 12:56 PM
>>> Please stop making thread titles like this <<<

TheLionLegend
02-23-2018, 12:57 PM
>>> Please stop making thread titles like this <<<

>>> Why Do You Say That? <<<

Wallachia
02-23-2018, 12:58 PM
>>> Why Do You Say That? <<<

>>> Because otherwise I'll show you what is a Hokuto Hyakuretsu Ken <<<

Borvik
02-23-2018, 01:20 PM
>>> Because otherwise I'll show you what is a Hokuto Hyakuretsu Ken <<<

>>> Hey stop mailing him afro hair <<<

TheLionLegend
02-23-2018, 02:17 PM
Oh now I see...

People attracted by >< (thread title)
People attracted by Ying (thread topic)

Same people :)

Rakuda88
02-23-2018, 02:57 PM
1) Her range isn't the problem, it's the actual healing the Illusions do and the time and method of their (re)targeting.
2) Would rather have consistent heals in range rather than irrelevant heals from any range; (from a technical perspective - scaling up/down will most likely delay healing ticks);
3) Shatter is OK as it is now, her heals are what are lacking potency.
4) I had no idea "Focusing Lens" had dropoff,... also recently her attack range was supposedly buffed (pretty sure i heard that mentioned in the patch video dev' discussion)

5) your addiction/obsession with the "><" symbols is not healthy.
6) I agree, Ying is not viable in competitive, cause her heals are only able to patch-things-up, her "Life Exchange" Legendary tries to counter that problem but makes her inept at both dishing relevant damage AND healing.

TheLionLegend
02-23-2018, 04:30 PM
1) Her range isn't the problem, it's the actual healing the Illusions do and the time and method of their (re)targeting.
2) Would rather have consistent heals in range rather than irrelevant heals from any range; (from a technical perspective - scaling up/down will most likely delay healing ticks);
3) Shatter is OK as it is now, her heals are what are lacking potency.
4) I had no idea "Focusing Lens" had dropoff,... also recently her attack range was supposedly buffed (pretty sure i heard that mentioned in the patch video dev' discussion)

5) your addiction/obsession with the "><" symbols is not healthy.
6) I agree, Ying is not viable in competitive, cause her heals are only able to patch-things-up, her "Life Exchange" Legendary tries to counter that problem but makes her inept at both dishing relevant damage AND healing.
Healing Illusions should prioritize targets within 100ft and then if no targets are found scan for targets within 300ft but heal less.
This way it is a straight forward buff that wouldn't make Ying broken but would make her more viable because she will be able to also heal from safe distance.

This is the simplified version but I posted a more detailed on the past.
Because the heling is automated there could be some more complicated adjustments without being confusing for the player.
For example there could be a miss chance if the target is moving or is far away but also increase the base healing a lot so it can behave like a player healer.

An other alternative would be to both heal and deal damage with shatter by default but for a smaller amount (e.g. 350).

Ying might not need skill to heal but if the auto heal is more ''clever'' she can focus on staying alive and dealing damage which requires skill (especially while using her dimensional link ability) and thus she doesn't need to be ''weak'' because she is ''easy'' to play.

TouFuub
02-24-2018, 12:35 AM
One simple way to make Ying much more better: revert the unnecessary nerfs over the previous patches

Check out Valkure's idea for more info

TheLionLegend
02-24-2018, 05:16 AM
One simple way to make Ying much more better: revert the unnecessary nerfs over the previous patches

Check out Valkure's idea for more info
I will check it out :)
If you don't mind, please provide the link so I can find it easily.

Peinzius
02-24-2018, 09:54 AM
Reverting her previous nerfs will not make her the best healer again. The standards for a good healer have been improved since OB 45, so even that Ying would still struggle. I think we should test out this new range for a while, and then see what we should do.

I think a lower cooldown on illusions or a larger range would buff her, not "reverting the nerfs". Spamming Dim Link wasn't what made her good in OB 47, it won't make her good now.

GeSteYiam
02-25-2018, 11:18 AM
Check my signature to see my idea of balancing Ying

stesc5
02-25-2018, 11:38 AM
At the dev talk martini said something like she is a beginner support and should be easy to play and is doing good for her tier. So personally I don't expect that she will receive a buff. :(

M3RC3N4RI0
02-25-2018, 07:48 PM
Ying is also somewhat boring to play. She has no CC but can only spam her clones. A rework might be a good idea. I could imagine that shattered clones not only attack enemies but also team mates doing a full heal on them. Or they work like Barik's turrets and shoot at opponents (like Damba).

Valkure
02-26-2018, 03:02 AM
Just revoke the nerf.
http://forums.paladins.com/showthread.php?61502-Revert-Ying-5th-nerf-(also-4th-and-3rd-would-be-great)

TheLionLegend
02-26-2018, 09:22 AM
Thanks for you feedback guys, especially Valkure who seems to be everywhere around the forums!

I believe that reverting the healing speed nerf wouldn't make Ying as viable as before cause the meta moved on.
It would make her more viable though, and this is fine I guess.

Of course the best thing is to rework Ying and have an even healthier meta.
From what I can see in the forums, the simplest rework is for her shatter so it can heal as well or even remove its cooldown.

Valkure
02-26-2018, 09:55 AM
Thanks for you feedback guys, especially Valkure who seems to be everywhere around the forums!
As explained in the past, I am overly verbose!

Nah, removing the dmg from her shatter means sending her as the average support, aka, unable to defend herself. I've written another thread on the topic, since you have understood that I'm everywhere:
http://forums.paladins.com/showthread.php?67425-Support-the-supports
But we'll have to see how CU removal will affect the champs.

FireAndGasoline
02-26-2018, 09:56 AM
Ying has good healing (good healing value), good escape and good damage. But what should be changed is how it heals. Basically it puts an illusion that heals an ally in a certain ray, which makes it difficult to heal those that are further away, or even behind the wall.

Idea of ​​how illusions should heal:

It would be extremely interesting if the illusions could follow the allies to heal them. They would not traverse the map all behind the allies, but when you position an illusion, it will be able to follow an ally within 50 yards (an example of distance). These illusions would have the intelligence of a Bot, being able to deflect a little (they would not be overly defensive of themselves).

I found the increase in the distance of your damage a bit misplaced, I liked the distance of the old damage. So I think that the solution I gave to your cure would be incredible.

The illusions should be equal to the true Ying for the enemies. It would be magnificent in the game to see multiple yings going through small areas. It's annoying extreme to put illusions that stand still all the time.

Idea for animation of your ult:

When Ying uses her supreme ability she puts her hand into the mirror, it would be interesting if the illusions did the same, to confuse the enemies. Ying is a sorceress, she should be able to play with enemies' minds.

Obs: My English is not good.