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Chasma
01-15-2018, 10:46 AM
Starting basically with: All champion ultimate charge rates decrease by 10%

Balance changes. Starting with Moji.

Moji.
(Moji's basic problem is her size/speed.)
-Adding instant ~600 base self heal on her Magic Barrier skill. (This will help her continue a 1v1 fight, or fledge it.)
-Reduce the movement speed of her Bon Appetit victim by 10~20%.
-*Change the visual effects, making her Familiar Spit ability effects override the effects of Familiar Spray, so the player have acknowledge at were he shoots.
(Increasing ability cooldowns to balance the changes may happen)
(I'd also suggest an increase at her ultimate charge rate, but the previous changes alone can make that happen)

Ash.
-Increase base damage from 400 to 450.
-Slug shot legendary, reduce from 50% faster and further to ~30-40% and readjust damage increase by 15 points (at lvl 4) so 12/21 damage at lvl 1/10.
-Add base damage reduction at Shoulder Bash ability by 30%.
-Readjust Battering Ram legendary damage reduction at ~40% increased damage reduction at lvl 4.

Fernando
-*Dragonfire Lance legendary, readjust damage at ~160 per hit [OR] add damage over time same as primary flame lance.
-Change the visual effect so the player can see his target

Makoa
-Reduce Dredge Anchor's projectile speed a bit (or make it projectile if it is considered hitscan)
-*Readjust increased health from Leviathan legendary to 1000~1200

Terminus
(Terminus needs to be able to chase enemies, or stand on point as heavy tank. Now he lacks both abilities.)
-*Power Siphon now consumes 25% of the "Remaining" energy upon activation, but has 0.5 ~ 1 sec cooldown to start the auto regeneration, and requires at least 20% overall energy to use the ability.
-Increase Calamity Blast's cooldown by 1 sec, the ability's base calamity charge now hits for 400 and the following charges hit by an additional 200 each.

Torvald
-Direct Current legendary. Nullify now connects with the target and cannot break from environment (like walls) and deals damage.(the same damage)
-Alternating Current legendary now increases recharge's duration by 1 sec more and increase personal shield capacity by ~500-1000 hp at lvl 4.
-Reduce the duration increase of Thanks, Grandpa legendary from {1.7|.1} to {1|.1}. (Meaning it gives an extra 1.3sec at lvl 4 instead of 2 sec)

Willo
-Base damage from Wand increase from 500 to 600
-Reduce scaling damage from Blastflower legendary from by 100 to 70
-Increase Dead Zone cooldown by 2 sec.
-Increase the further distance by Flutter by ~15%.
-*Reduce Nightshade legendary damage from 800 to 650-700
-Nightshade legendary now also reduce Dead Zone's cooldown by 3sec and it's durating by 2sec.

Sha Lin
(Sha Lin is able to avoid/destroy flanks/tanks and he can flank himself, getting in a wrong position isn't always punished. I don't think reducing his damage is the way. so..)
-Reduce his base health by 100.

Bomb King
-Increase Poppy Bomb's cooldown by ~2-3sec.

Strix
-Reduce the area of effect of Flare by ~30-40%. (No reason to be that much, smaller=more rewarding if you do it at the desired place)
-*Reduce his health by 100

**Pip
-Healing Potion not trigged anymore when hit an ally or an enemy.
-Health reduced by ~100.

Drogoz
-Fire Spit will not be able to be triggered if not get hit directly.

Barik
-Increase base health by 200 [OR/AND] increase turret damage ticks by ~30.

Zhin
-Increase Billow's cooldown by 1sec
-Increase Counter's cooldown by 2sec.

Cassie
-*Reduce her damage from 680 to 670.
-*Reduce the damage from Impulse legendary from 350 to 250~275.

Ruckus
-*Reduce the wait time (increase the speed/make it activate faster) of Advance by ~30% when used for vertical mobility with Aerial Assault legendary.

Tyra
-*Reduce ~20% of the increasing damage from Burn, Monster legendary from Fire Bomb, and add that ~20% on her base Fire Bomb skill.

Skye
-Stealth ability now also grants cc immunity and makes stealth unbreakable for 1 sec.

Vivian
-Reduce the Deflector's shield duration and cooldown by ~2sec.
-Precision Sights now also grants distance based increased damage, ~15% increased damage on the maximum distance.

Androxus
-Power of the Abyss card, now reduce Nether Step's cooldown for {55|5}% instead of {10|10}, meaning 70% for lvl 4. (55% at lvl 1, 100% at lvl 10)
-Increase Nether Step's cooldown from 10 to 12sec.

Ying
-Increase Illusory Mirror's damage by 10 per tick.
-Increase default deployment range of Illusions by ~20%. (Ying needs a more efficient way of diploying illusions for best precision, i'm not sure if this change will help at all)
-Dimensional Link. Reduces the postfire time from 0.5s to 0.2s, but now Dimensional Link has a limit of 4 swaps.(Kinda like Androxus has a limit of 3 steps)

Buck
-Buck Wild (ulti) now also reduce* damage taken by ~30% for the duration.

Lex
-Increase the lower limit of magnums damage [OR] increase the damage on fall off damage.

Inara
-Reduce Warder Field's health by ~400


* = The latest changes/edited
** = Under Discussion of not being changed

Leafstorm
01-15-2018, 11:14 AM
Some nice ideas, But could you Please explain some of these more in detail?

Starting basically with: All champion ultimate charge rates decrease by 10%

Torvald
Direct Current legendary. Nullify now connects with the target and cannot break from environment (like walls) and deals damage.(the same damage)

Willo
Base damage from Wand increase from 500 to 600
Reduce scaling damage from Blastflower legendary from by 100 to 70
Increase Dead Zone cooldown by 2 sec.
Increase the further distance by Flutter by ~15%.
Reduce her health by 100.
Nightshade legendary now also reduce Dead Zone's cooldown by 3sec and it's durating by 2sec.

Bomb King
Increase Poppy Bomb's cooldown by ~2-3sec.
(Also, maybe and not nessecerily reduce his sticky bombs damage by ~10 to 30. Note he already does 10 extra damage when sticking a bomb at an enemy).

Strix
Reduce the area of effect of Flare by ~30-40%. (No reason to be that much, smaller=more rewarding if you do it at the desired place)

Pip
Healing Potion not trigged anymore when hit an ally or an enemy.
Health reduced by ~100.

Zhin
Increase Billow's cooldown by 1sec
Increase Counter's cooldown by 2sec.

Lian
Enlightenment (ult) now refunds 40% (instead of 50%) if it kills an enemy [OR] Projectile speed of enlightenment is decreased.

Skye
Stealth ability now also grants cc immunity and makes stealth unbreakable for 1 sec.

Vivian
Reduce the Deflector's shield duration and cooldown by ~2sec.
Precision Sights now also grants distance based increased damage, ~15% increased damage on the maximum distance.

Androxus
Increase health by ~100-200 (with Andro's current changes and bugs he dies a lot)

Inara
Reduce Warder Field's health by ~400

Blatt
01-15-2018, 11:38 AM
Nice composition there.

I'm confused at your Pip and Drogoz suggestions, though. What do you mean there?

Further more I think Inara's nerf is too minor and ash should, besides minor offensive nerfs, get minor defensive buffs.

I'M MISSING EVIE IN THIS LIST!!!

Other than that, I'm liking these suggestions a lot and Hi-rez should definitely take a look at them. (And employ you) :o

Edit: No experience with moji and vivian is plain as hell, thus I skipped those.

CatManDude
01-15-2018, 11:41 AM
Some explanations for your wanted changes would be nice. A lot of the wanted changes seem really weird. Taking Pip for example; why nerf his healing? He's already a not heavily played support.

Wlfvenom
01-15-2018, 11:45 AM
I think Pip is fine how he is and considering you are throwing glass bottles / vials they SHOULD break when they hit something or someone.

Only thing I would say it don't let stupid small things like a small ledge or being slightly behind cover negate his healing. Pip players will know what I am talking about. You throw a healing potion and just because they are slightly above you or are hidden partially behind a tree it decides that you "missed" even tho they would clearly be hit by the healing concoction in real life.

EssenceStudio
01-15-2018, 01:06 PM
Imo I don't think willow needs more dmg I think that she needs to better control what happens on point rather than huge bursts of dmg (we already have Drogoz for bursty Projectile damage)

Chasma
01-15-2018, 04:17 PM
Explanation inc.

Ash's changes is a try to make her viable with every legendary you choose, but yet have a special gameplay for each.

Fernando's new legendary just feels like it's doing nothing.

Makoa is the most OP champion for like the start of Paladins. Making more difficult to connect a hook with the enemy will reward best a more skilled player. The only problem with this change is that is will be diffucult for new players to understand how the hook works..

Ruckus change is just for how it feels when you play.

For Torvald, Field Study and Thanks, Grandpa legendaries are good enough to make the 2 remaining a no worthing pick. The changes create a specific reason to pick one of these legendaries.

Willo's changes are for the same reason, she does damage if you don't hunt her, but she is an easy enemy to kill. If you can land the hits better than your opponent you should be rewarded.
Also if you pick Nightshade legendary is because you want that damage, so with the changes you can have the damage more often but you give up some of the dead zone time.

Bomb Kings change is for the same reason with Sha Lin, he can do anything. You should be more aware for your placement.

Pip's healing potion change is a buff not a nerf, since now you can trigger the potion. Say you want to heal your 2 tanks, you throw the heal but a full health Viktor passes in front of you, so your tanks are dying and your next potion will be ready in 5 seconds. It happens a lot.
His health is cause now he can do anything while weightless and he is hard to be targeted, so if you can target him you will be more rewarding.

Drogoz's change makes it difficult to combo fire spit - salvo as you will have to directly hit the fire spit with one of your salvo rockets.

Barik is not viable at the moment so he needs a small buff that applies on every legendary of his.

Zhin does a lot of damage, and he can distract a whole team without even dying. With the changes he has to be more careful as to when use the abilities.

Cassie's new legendary is OP. With the change you can choose it only if you want to snipe.

Almost every 1v1 Lian has ends with her ultimate and she still does a lot of damage. As a damager she has to give something up for 1v1s.

With Skye's change i believe that she could be viable if played right, now she can't even enter stealth if she gets hit when pressing F.

Vivian i think she got more nerfed than she should. In close distance there isn't a reason to have a 6 sec shield, or more damage than she already has.

Mal Damba now, he does a lot of damage with the new legendary, with this nerf the player has to think, to damage or to heal with that Mending Spirits.

Buck is really good now compaired to the other flanks while 2 of his legendaries are not that good but can't be buffed up, nerfing the 2 remainings was the go. Also his ultimate feels more like that Buck becomes targeted, and also can't be used for anything special or combine ult with another champion.

Lex is difficult to go near an enemy, and from far he is almost useless as he doesn't even have vertical mobility. Like Zhin, he should be somewhat more decent at medium range fights.

Inara can reduce damage taken on Warder Field with her Earthern Guard, so even if you want to destroy it some times it's almost impossible. 400 health could be 800 damage hit with her Guard on.

Chasma
01-30-2018, 07:21 AM
Buck
Buck Wild (ulti) now also grands damage taken by ~30% for the duration.

Oops, i just read that, what i meant was, reduce damage taken from all attacks by ~30% for the duration.
I'm gonna edit it now.
(Also edited an additonal part for Fernando's new legendary visual effects)

Zio_Xeno
01-30-2018, 08:13 AM
Explanation inc.

Ash's changes is a try to make her viable with every legendary you choose, but yet have a special gameplay for each.

Fernando's new legendary just feels like it's doing nothing.

Makoa is the most OP champion for like the start of Paladins. Making more difficult to connect a hook with the enemy will reward best a more skilled player. The only problem with this change is that is will be diffucult for new players to understand how the hook works..

Ruckus change is just for how it feels when you play.

For Torvald, Field Study and Thanks, Grandpa legendaries are good enough to make the 2 remaining a no worthing pick. The changes create a specific reason to pick one of these legendaries.

Willo's changes are for the same reason, she does damage if you don't hunt her, but she is an easy enemy to kill. If you can land the hits better than your opponent you should be rewarded.
Also if you pick Nightshade legendary is because you want that damage, so with the changes you can have the damage more often but you give up some of the dead zone time.

Bomb Kings change is for the same reason with Sha Lin, he can do anything. You should be more aware for your placement.

Pip's healing potion change is a buff not a nerf, since now you can trigger the potion. Say you want to heal your 2 tanks, you throw the heal but a full health Viktor passes in front of you, so your tanks are dying and your next potion will be ready in 5 seconds. It happens a lot.
His health is cause now he can do anything while weightless and he is hard to be targeted, so if you can target him you will be more rewarding.

Drogoz's change makes it difficult to combo fire spit - salvo as you will have to directly hit the fire spit with one of your salvo rockets.

Barik is not viable at the moment so he needs a small buff that applies on every legendary of his.

Zhin does a lot of damage, and he can distract a whole team without even dying. With the changes he has to be more careful as to when use the abilities.

Cassie's new legendary is OP. With the change you can choose it only if you want to snipe.

Almost every 1v1 Lian has ends with her ultimate and she still does a lot of damage. As a damager she has to give something up for 1v1s.

With Skye's change i believe that she could be viable if played right, now she can't even enter stealth if she gets hit when pressing F.

Vivian i think she got more nerfed than she should. In close distance there isn't a reason to have a 6 sec shield, or more damage than she already has.

Mal Damba now, he does a lot of damage with the new legendary, with this nerf the player has to think, to damage or to heal with that Mending Spirits.

Buck is really good now compaired to the other flanks while 2 of his legendaries are not that good but can't be buffed up, nerfing the 2 remainings was the go. Also his ultimate feels more like that Buck becomes targeted, and also can't be used for anything special or combine ult with another champion.

Lex is difficult to go near an enemy, and from far he is almost useless as he doesn't even have vertical mobility. Like Zhin, he should be somewhat more decent at medium range fights.

Inara can reduce damage taken on Warder Field with her Earthern Guard, so even if you want to destroy it some times it's almost impossible. 400 health could be 800 damage hit with her Guard on.

First of all, you said that willo is easy to kill, so if you lower hp she will be a easy target. Also, the new legendary is not that reliable, yeah you can finish targets, but the deadzone is used for her cauter 3 effect, if you reduce deadzone time, you will change a zoning and dangerous ability with 680 damage, but also you can deal more damage having the skill every 7-8 seconds and that would be a little op.
Now according to you, we should increase zhins cooldowns, he has already been nerfed, and the nerfs aren't light ones(maybe, don't feed counter?) his billow has been nerfed in duration and cooldown, same thing with counter that also has reduced damage and duration, now zhin needs to be careful, but if you increase cooldowns he will have serious problems, since smolder has been nerfed. Sha lin doesn't need base health reduced, he is already squishy, and you know there is something called illuminate, bk needs a rework on royale subjects, his bombs sometimes won't hit even if it explodes 2 centimiters from theyr teeth so his damage is rewarding if you can land the bombs first.
Vivian should be removed, totally not just nerfed.
Mal'damba has to think: i use it on enemy or on ally so is not that broken in bound mode and you have three seconds cooldown that make you regret wrong choises, sure if you play unbound you will be deleated at first shot.
Lian is annoying for aimbot not for the ult, you should understand when she is 1v1 with you just to ult you.
Inara's field... maybe try to stay away from her? as a damage and flank i usually avoid to ingage a fight with her if i'm alone because shooting that thing is stupid, she will start the cooldown, and while you escape she will have that thing again, so your strategy should be to never, i repeat NEVER ingage a fight alone, she would trap you and even if you destroy the field you won't be able to save yourself.
Andro needs some things: they should remove that drunk effect every times he shoots, ok for recoil but the shake causes nausea; Old dark stalker, old pistol and old dash distance. Lex is braindead, he is done to spam lmb while you kiss the enemy, he doesn't need decreased falldown but a total rework.

CatManDude
01-30-2018, 09:20 AM
Pip's healing potion change is a buff not a nerf, since now you can trigger the potion. Say you want to heal your 2 tanks, you throw the heal but a full health Viktor passes in front of you, so your tanks are dying and your next potion will be ready in 5 seconds. It happens a lot.
His health is cause now he can do anything while weightless and he is hard to be targeted, so if you can target him you will be more rewarding.


And this isn't a problem with Pip in general, and if anything, is only a problem with your own teammates. It should be common sense to never walk in front of an ally Pip if they're healing, otherwise, you could easily screw them over. Of course, if they're on point, accidents will happen and that's expected, but if the Pip is in the backline, go around him please, don't expect him to have to play around you.
And his health pool is fine where it's at, and is one of the bigger benefits that he has, considering how easily he would be killed by literally any flanker without 2500 health. He's meant to be slippery; you simply have to get better. It'd be like nerfing Evie's health because she can be hard to hit while in Soar.

Benaful
01-30-2018, 09:20 AM
Explanation inc.

Ash's changes is a try to make her viable with every legendary you choose, but yet have a special gameplay for each.

Fernando's new legendary just feels like it's doing nothing.

Makoa is the most OP champion for like the start of Paladins. Making more difficult to connect a hook with the enemy will reward best a more skilled player. The only problem with this change is that is will be diffucult for new players to understand how the hook works..

Ruckus change is just for how it feels when you play.

For Torvald, Field Study and Thanks, Grandpa legendaries are good enough to make the 2 remaining a no worthing pick. The changes create a specific reason to pick one of these legendaries.

Willo's changes are for the same reason, she does damage if you don't hunt her, but she is an easy enemy to kill. If you can land the hits better than your opponent you should be rewarded.
Also if you pick Nightshade legendary is because you want that damage, so with the changes you can have the damage more often but you give up some of the dead zone time.

Bomb Kings change is for the same reason with Sha Lin, he can do anything. You should be more aware for your placement.

Pip's healing potion change is a buff not a nerf, since now you can trigger the potion. Say you want to heal your 2 tanks, you throw the heal but a full health Viktor passes in front of you, so your tanks are dying and your next potion will be ready in 5 seconds. It happens a lot.
His health is cause now he can do anything while weightless and he is hard to be targeted, so if you can target him you will be more rewarding.

Drogoz's change makes it difficult to combo fire spit - salvo as you will have to directly hit the fire spit with one of your salvo rockets.

Barik is not viable at the moment so he needs a small buff that applies on every legendary of his.

Zhin does a lot of damage, and he can distract a whole team without even dying. With the changes he has to be more careful as to when use the abilities.

Cassie's new legendary is OP. With the change you can choose it only if you want to snipe.

Almost every 1v1 Lian has ends with her ultimate and she still does a lot of damage. As a damager she has to give something up for 1v1s.

With Skye's change i believe that she could be viable if played right, now she can't even enter stealth if she gets hit when pressing F.

Vivian i think she got more nerfed than she should. In close distance there isn't a reason to have a 6 sec shield, or more damage than she already has.

Mal Damba now, he does a lot of damage with the new legendary, with this nerf the player has to think, to damage or to heal with that Mending Spirits.

Buck is really good now compaired to the other flanks while 2 of his legendaries are not that good but can't be buffed up, nerfing the 2 remainings was the go. Also his ultimate feels more like that Buck becomes targeted, and also can't be used for anything special or combine ult with another champion.

Lex is difficult to go near an enemy, and from far he is almost useless as he doesn't even have vertical mobility. Like Zhin, he should be somewhat more decent at medium range fights.

Inara can reduce damage taken on Warder Field with her Earthern Guard, so even if you want to destroy it some times it's almost impossible. 400 health could be 800 damage hit with her Guard on.

I main fernando, and the dragon frie lance dmg is to much, we just need the visual effect, i can't see a shet when i am using dragon fire lance.

Benaful
01-30-2018, 09:21 AM
And this isn't a problem with Pip in general, and if anything, is only a problem with your own teammates. It should be common sense to never walk in front of an ally Pip if they're healing, otherwise, you could easily screw them over. Of course, if they're on point, accidents will happen and that's expected, but if the Pip is in the backline, go around him please, don't expect him to have to play around you.
And his health pool is fine where it's at, and is one of the bigger benefits that he has, considering how easily he would be killed by literally any flanker without 2500 health. He's meant to be slippery; you simply have to get better. It'd be like nerfing Evie's health because she can be hard to hit while in Soar.

I feel you bro, Pip is good when your tanks know pip, and how he have to play ; (.

Chasma
01-30-2018, 09:31 AM
First of all, you said that willo is easy to kill, so if you lower hp she will be a easy target. Also, the new legendary is not that reliable, yeah you can finish targets, but the deadzone is used for her cauter 3 effect, if you reduce deadzone time, you will change a zoning and dangerous ability with 680 damage, but also you can deal more damage having the skill every 7-8 seconds and that would be a little op.
Now according to you, we should increase zhins cooldowns, he has already been nerfed, and the nerfs aren't light ones(maybe, don't feed counter?) his billow has been nerfed in duration and cooldown, same thing with counter that also has reduced damage and duration, now zhin needs to be careful, but if you increase cooldowns he will have serious problems, since smolder has been nerfed. Sha lin doesn't need base health reduced, he is already squishy, and you know there is something called illuminate, bk needs a rework on royale subjects, his bombs sometimes won't hit even if it explodes 2 centimiters from theyr teeth so his damage is rewarding if you can land the bombs first.
Vivian should be removed, totally not just nerfed.
Mal'damba has to think: i use it on enemy or on ally so is not that broken in bound mode and you have three seconds cooldown that make you regret wrong choises, sure if you play unbound you will be deleated at first shot.
Lian is annoying for aimbot not for the ult, you should understand when she is 1v1 with you just to ult you.
Inara's field... maybe try to stay away from her? as a damage and flank i usually avoid to ingage a fight with her if i'm alone because shooting that thing is stupid, she will start the cooldown, and while you escape she will have that thing again, so your strategy should be to never, i repeat NEVER ingage a fight alone, she would trap you and even if you destroy the field you won't be able to save yourself.
Andro needs some things: they should remove that drunk effect every times he shoots, ok for recoil but the shake causes nausea; Old dark stalker, old pistol and old dash distance. Lex is braindead, he is done to spam lmb while you kiss the enemy, he doesn't need decreased falldown but a total rework.

Willo. With her changes with the new legendary she'll have just 1 sec less cd on her dead zone. Legendaries are to make different playstyles, so you have to pick one. With these buffs (most importantly her 100 extra damage) and 100 health nerf she should be more aware of incoming enemies, or don't be aware and get punished.

For Zhin and BK you can be answered if you read your signature (while BK's damage nerf is optional). They are almost stable but they need more changes to reach that point.

For Sha Lin our opinions differ, i believe he should give something else (not damage) when he press Q, or flank.

If you pick Mal Damba's new legendary, is because you already have a healer in your team. Now he can be top damage with a descent healing, so he should pick a more stable playstyle.

Lian's auto hits help for a nice burst on a 1v1 fight and since that is a fact, i already explained the reason for her ulti nerf.

With Inara you just stated 1 possible case out of a thousand that can occur and is reffered only for flanks or damagers. The fact is that her F's hitbox is large, bigger than it's visual effect, yet it's almost never destroyed, even when people target it. It's a quality change.

Andro's recoil has been changed in a hotfix this patch. Rollback changes as the most people suggest in here are not the answer, and i don't think Hirez will pay attention at these.

Lex has got already a rework. As of the new semi-auto guns are out, and he has no vertical mobility, he needs something more so he can approach an enemy.

Harlequin98
01-30-2018, 09:36 AM
I really support your suggestion for Torvald, but I would also like it if Nullify could be countered. How about a cooldown refund if Nullify was broken? (Nice Alternating Current rework idea, by the way.)

Chasma
01-30-2018, 09:40 AM
And this isn't a problem with Pip in general, and if anything, is only a problem with your own teammates. It should be common sense to never walk in front of an ally Pip if they're healing, otherwise, you could easily screw them over. Of course, if they're on point, accidents will happen and that's expected, but if the Pip is in the backline, go around him please, don't expect him to have to play around you.
And his health pool is fine where it's at, and is one of the bigger benefits that he has, considering how easily he would be killed by literally any flanker without 2500 health. He's meant to be slippery; you simply have to get better. It'd be like nerfing Evie's health because she can be hard to hit while in Soar.

You say accidents can happen, that's the reason behind my suggestion. You are not in everyone else's mind and not playing in a 5 man party in voice chat. The change can help from the lowest skilled players to the highest.



I really support your suggestion for Torvald, but I would also like it if Nullify could be countered. How about a cooldown refund if Nullify was broken? (Nice Alternating Current rework idea, by the way.)

Hmm, Nullify would still be countered with Resilience item.

CatManDude
01-30-2018, 12:04 PM
You say accidents can happen, that's the reason behind my suggestion. You are not in everyone else's mind and not playing in a 5 man party in voice chat. The change can help from the lowest skilled players to the highest.

In close quarters. And in general, it's a good idea to stay out of your supports face so they don't fuck up a heal. Hell, people understand this with Damba, so why should it be different for Pip?

Zio_Xeno
01-30-2018, 01:25 PM
Willo. With her changes with the new legendary she'll have just 1 sec less cd on her dead zone. Legendaries are to make different playstyles, so you have to pick one. With these buffs (most importantly her 100 extra damage) and 100 health nerf she should be more aware of incoming enemies, or don't be aware and get punished.

For Zhin and BK you can be answered if you read your signature (while BK's damage nerf is optional). They are almost stable but they need more changes to reach that point.

For Sha Lin our opinions differ, i believe he should give something else (not damage) when he press Q, or flank.

If you pick Mal Damba's new legendary, is because you already have a healer in your team. Now he can be top damage with a descent healing, so he should pick a more stable playstyle.

Lian's auto hits help for a nice burst on a 1v1 fight and since that is a fact, i already explained the reason for her ulti nerf.

With Inara you just stated 1 possible case out of a thousand that can occur and is reffered only for flanks or damagers. The fact is that her F's hitbox is large, bigger than it's visual effect, yet it's almost never destroyed, even when people target it. It's a quality change.

Andro's recoil has been changed in a hotfix this patch. Rollback changes as the most people suggest in here are not the answer, and i don't think Hirez will pay attention at these.

Lex has got already a rework. As of the new semi-auto guns are out, and he has no vertical mobility, he needs something more so he can approach an enemy.

Zhin is good as he is, and i main almost everyone, not just zhin and Bk, "oh but you are a bk main is normal that you defend him", it doesn't work like that dude. also you missed the point with lex's rework, i mean that he is a braindead spammer and needs to be reworked, he was better when he had magnums not .22 lr that shoot magnum ammo without recoil. and lian is a 1v1 antiflank, she is desined for that

Chasma
01-30-2018, 01:51 PM
In close quarters. And in general, it's a good idea to stay out of your supports face so they don't fuck up a heal. Hell, people understand this with Damba, so why should it be different for Pip?

Mal = hitscan, Pip = projectile. That's why.



Zhin is good as he is, and i main almost everyone, not just zhin and Bk, "oh but you are a bk main is normal that you defend him", it doesn't work like that dude. also you missed the point with lex's rework, i mean that he is a braindead spammer and needs to be reworked, he was better when he had magnums not .22 lr that shoot magnum ammo without recoil. and lian is a 1v1 antiflank, she is desined for that

It's funny cause i never mentioned that you main these champions. And posting a damager with a lot of kills and a flank with lots of damage proves something, doesn't it?
No, i got the point for Lex, they ain't gonna rework him again at least any time soon, so we gotta find how to balance him in the current gameplay.
I get your point for Lian.

CatManDude
01-30-2018, 02:00 PM
Mal = hitscan, Pip = projectile. That's why.

And you can still miss a heal by someone running infront of you as Mal. Yet people tend to never run into his face unless it's in close quarters. So Pip's heal being a projectile is not the case.

Chasma
01-30-2018, 02:04 PM
And you can still miss a heal by someone running infront of you as Mal. Yet people tend to never run into his face unless it's in close quarters. So Pip's heal being a projectile is not the case.

It is, but it's not the only one. The two have different potitioning. In addition, Mal damba has his heals available more often while Pip's heals are more critical. You might won't pay as much attention if this happens to Mal as with Pip cause you're gonna have 5-8 sec of no heal.

CatManDude
01-30-2018, 02:08 PM
It is, but it's not the only one. The two have different potitioning. In addition, Mal damba has his heals available more often while Pip's heals are more critical. You might won't pay as much attention if this happens to Mal as with Pip cause you're gonna have 5-8 sec of no heal.

And if it's more critical if it happens to Pip, that means players need a better game sense, instead of changing the way the potion works. Doesn't help that said change would most likely bring up more bugs, as it seems like the potion just detonates regardless of what it touches. It's not an issue with the healing potion, but is an issue with people just not knowing how to adapt to change in a healer, as people are more used to seeing Jenos, Seris, or Damba as healers, and tend to see any other support as 'trash' as a healer.

Chasma
01-30-2018, 02:14 PM
And if it's more critical if it happens to Pip, that means players need a better game sense, instead of changing the way the potion works. Doesn't help that said change would most likely bring up more bugs, as it seems like the potion just detonates regardless of what it touches. It's not an issue with the healing potion, but is an issue with people just not knowing how to adapt to change in a healer, as people are more used to seeing Jenos, Seris, or Damba as healers, and tend to see any other support as 'trash' as a healer.

When myself don't pay attention many times not to jump infront of a healer Pip, i cannot expect for a bronze+ to do so too. If any change can help Pip be more reliable and stable healer, then why not do that? Cause it "might" bring more bugs? Bugs do come with or without changes anyway.

CatManDude
01-30-2018, 02:19 PM
When myself don't pay attention many times not to jump infront of a healer Pip, i cannot expect for a bronze+ to do so too. If any change can help Pip be more reliable and stable healer, then why not do that? Cause it "might" bring more bugs? Bugs do come with or without changes anyway.

And Pip's bugs have been the longest lasting bugs that have been seen in the game. So anything that may bring more bugs just isn't going to be good. Plus, the potion not detonating on contact can and will really screw over Pip players, as it's not a bad thing. Also, why make things easier because players refuse to learn? That is just a bad balancing habit.

Chasma
01-30-2018, 02:27 PM
And Pip's bugs have been the longest lasting bugs that have been seen in the game. So anything that may bring more bugs just isn't going to be good. Plus, the potion not detonating on contact can and will really screw over Pip players, as it's not a bad thing. Also, why make things easier because players refuse to learn? That is just a bad balancing habit.

Sorry i'm not gonna continue the chat about don't change something it might bring bugs.
You said your opinions and i said mine, i don't think we can find a middle solution.

Zio_Xeno
01-30-2018, 05:12 PM
Sorry i'm not gonna continue the chat about don't change something it might bring bugs.
You said your opinions and i said mine, i don't think we can find a middle solution.

He is right, you don't need to change pip's healing, people should learn, even if some things should be changed, ex andro or lex, or vivian... pip is not a champion that needs changes just bug fixes

Chasma
02-07-2018, 08:40 AM
Editing additional changes in primary post.

Talus
Reduce his Overcharge fire rate from 33% to 27%. (Now his raging demon legendary will have more value, as for picking it gives more chances to get the kill)

Androxus
Power of the Abyss card, now reduce Nether Step's cooldown for {55|5}% instead of {10|10}, meaning 70% for lvl 4. (55% at lvl 1, 100% at lvl 10)
Increase Nether Step's cooldown from 10 to 12sec.

Ying
Dimensional Link. Reduces the postfire time from 0.5s to 0.2s, but now Dimensional Link has a limit of 4 swaps.(Kinda like Androxus has a limit of 3 steps)

Torvald
Reduce the duration increase of Thanks, Grandpa legendary from {1.7|.1} to {1|.1}. (Meaning it gives an extra 1.3sec at lvl 4 instead of 2 sec)

Ruckus
Removed the change proposal as they changed it back to as he was.

Jusey1
02-07-2018, 08:00 PM
Pip doesn't need a health nerf. He's very squishy, especially against hitscan. The buff isn't necessary at all and will do nothing.

Jusey1
02-07-2018, 08:02 PM
Sorry i'm not gonna continue the chat about don't change something it might bring bugs.
You said your opinions and i said mine, i don't think we can find a middle solution.

Except you're wrong. You have multiple Pip mains pointing out why you are wrong with your ideas, and why they wouldn't either do anything or make things worse for no good reason. Sure, it is still your opinion but your opinion is wrong.

Chasma
02-08-2018, 01:09 AM
Except you're wrong. You have multiple Pip mains pointing out why you are wrong with your ideas, and why they wouldn't either do anything or make things worse for no good reason. Sure, it is still your opinion but your opinion is wrong.

Nah, people are just bored to adjust at changes. Except forum i've asked elsewhere master Pip mains and they find it good idea. I can also see it at every Pip video moments i say "oh look if that didn't connect on that player, the player on the back could have been saved." Give a valide point of why this opinion is wrong.

iGR1MREAPER
02-08-2018, 04:18 AM
As a torvald (lvl 24) and barik (lvl 21) main, with these changes you would make both of my mains unstoppable and OP.
But ok.

Jusey1
02-08-2018, 08:51 AM
Nah, people are just bored to adjust at changes. Except forum i've asked elsewhere master Pip mains and they find it good idea. I can also see it at every Pip video moments i say "oh look if that didn't connect on that player, the player on the back could have been saved." Give a valide point of why this opinion is wrong.

Because you shouldn't be in a position where you're accidentally hitting people, just like with any other healer... No matter which healer you're playing as, if a teammate gets in the way of your healing target, you'll still heal that teammate. The only exceptions are Grohk, Ying, and Grover.

It's part of the game and skill balance of playing supports. Positioning yourself so that you always have full access to your tanks, as well as anyone else who may need healing, and having nothing blocking your path to do so. It's a skill. Buffing one support, but not the others, to deal with this problem is unnecessary, and unfair since it is a problem that most of the supports have.

So, if you run into this problem... Then either you or your teammate is in a bad position. If it is the former, get better and learn better spots. If it is the latter, then you should teach them to not do that. Simple as that.

Also, you're probably lying, since again, you have multiple actual Pip healer mains saying otherwise. So I don't trust your word right now.

Chasma
02-08-2018, 10:46 AM
Because you shouldn't be in a position where you're accidentally hitting people, just like with any other healer... No matter which healer you're playing as, if a teammate gets in the way of your healing target, you'll still heal that teammate. The only exceptions are Grohk, Ying, and Grover.

It's part of the game and skill balance of playing supports. Positioning yourself so that you always have full access to your tanks, as well as anyone else who may need healing, and having nothing blocking your path to do so. It's a skill. Buffing one support, but not the others, to deal with this problem is unnecessary, and unfair since it is a problem that most of the supports have.

So, if you run into this problem... Then either you or your teammate is in a bad position. If it is the former, get better and learn better spots. If it is the latter, then you should teach them to not do that. Simple as that.

Also, you're probably lying, since again, you have multiple actual Pip healer mains saying otherwise. So I don't trust your word right now.

Don't compare dissimilar things, every other's champion's main heal is instant or/and passthrough or/and hitscan or/and very low cooldown if miss or not. That's the thing that makes Pip healers unstable throughout all ranks.

Teach your teammates, sure. Lets add an additional time in every game for teaching our teammates what to do, will we need a blackboard? I wonder.. This is fun, lets be teachers!

If you think that the people you make conversation are lying, then why are you making coversation at the first place? You don't try to make conversation, instead you impose your own opinion as a fact. One of the people i've asked was Kami (which i think he is one of the most descent players on Pip) in his stream and he replied that that would be a great change for Pip.

What's your rank? Cause if any change makes Pip a descent, stable choice for healing on master+ to pro gm players but too OP for lower ranks, then maybe it isn't the way-to-go change for him, i can give you that.

CatManDude
02-08-2018, 11:26 AM
Except forum i've asked elsewhere master Pip mains and they find it good idea.

Some names would be nice. And I can assure you that most people only want bug fixes on Pip, not the changes you proposed. Everything Jusey said about the potion is fair, and is my exact reason as to why it shouldn't be a thing. Players should have to have awareness, not have others have to be aware for them.

And with the game being more damage oriented, making Pip more squishy would give him near 0 chance of survival of he gets attacked.

And if you really think rank matters and you need to know mine, Diamond 1 (and damn close to masters).

Jusey1
02-08-2018, 12:10 PM
Teach your teammates, sure. Lets add an additional time in every game for teaching our teammates what to do, will we need a blackboard? I wonder.. This is fun, lets be teachers!

Now I can't take you seriously... Every game, be it from chess to a video game like Paladins, requires learning. Learning of strategy, positioning, playstyles, and many more things. It is always nice to help teach new players or just people in general about the game, rather than putting them down or even worse... Letting them think that their opinion is always right or fine to follow, despite being pointed out the flaws in their argument and why it is a bad thing...

Also, Kami is a decent Pip but he's not a master at the character. I wouldn't consider him a reliable opinion when it comes to how Pip is played or should be balanced. No offense to Kami, I love the guy and his streams but he isn't a Master at every champion. I may look up to him for advice on some other champs though.

Chasma
02-08-2018, 12:55 PM
Some names would be nice. And I can assure you that most people only want bug fixes on Pip, not the changes you proposed. Everything Jusey said about the potion is fair, and is my exact reason as to why it shouldn't be a thing. Players should have to have awareness, not have others have to be aware for them.

And with the game being more damage oriented, making Pip more squishy would give him near 0 chance of survival of he gets attacked.

And if you really think rank matters and you need to know mine, Diamond 1 (and damn close to masters).

I agree at everything but i can't open a thread on balance suggestions asking for bug fixes cause firstly, Hirez won't pay any attention and secondly the thread will be closed, so sitting and asking here for bug fixes will get you to nowhere. That's the reason i don't wanna talk about bringing or fixing bugs on this thread.

The suggestions i've made for each champion is if all changes of that specific champion come together and not partially.
I will put a "under discussion" on the primary post for Pip.

Rank matters sometimes, higher ranks usually know how most situations roll in game.

CatManDude
02-08-2018, 04:10 PM
I agree at everything but i can't open a thread on balance suggestions asking for bug fixes cause firstly, Hirez won't pay any attention and secondly the thread will be closed, so sitting and asking here for bug fixes will get you to nowhere. That's the reason i don't wanna talk about bringing or fixing bugs on this thread.

Well, you can. The thread most likely won't get closed, and you're acting as if Hi-Rez is constantly reading non-pinned threads in this section anyways.

Also, I see you dodged my question. Who are these players, besides the one that you mentioned? And at this point, I'm starting to think I won't get an answer.

Chasma
03-01-2018, 09:26 AM
01/03 Some additional changes. (I know next patch card system will be back to self increasing the levels of each card and a lot of these things will not need balance, so i'm just giving an idea of how it'd be balanced with the current system.


Moji
[Removed] Increasing her base speed [OR] increase the base distance on her Scamper ability.
[Added] Change the visual effects, making her Familiar Spit ability effects override the effects of Familiar Spray, so the player have acknowledge at were he shoots.

Fernando
[Change] Dragonfire Lance legendary reduced from my 180 damage proposal to 160

Makoa
[Added] Readjust increased health from Leviathan legendary to 1000~1200

Terminus
[Removed] While stand still, power siphon consumes 50% less energy
[Added] Power Siphon now consumes 25% of the "Remaining" energy upon activation, but has 0.5 ~ 1 sec cooldown to start the auto regeneration, and requires at least 20% overall energy to use the ability.

Willo
[Removed] Reduce her health by 100.
[Added] Reduce Nightshade legendary damage from 800 to 650-700

Strix
[Added] Reduce his health by 100

Cassie
[Removed-Fixed] Just Breathe legendary now has a base startup distance that starts the damage increase which is ~50 units.
[Added] Reduce her damage from 680 to 670.
[Added] Reduce the damage from Impulse legendary from 350 to 250~275.

Ruckus
[Added] Reduce the wait time (increase the speed/make it activate faster) of Advance by ~30% when used for vertical mobility with Aerial Assault legendary.

Tyra
[Added] Reduce ~20% of the increasing damage from Burn, Monster legendary from Fire Bomb, and add that ~20% on her base Fire Bomb skill.

Bomb King
[Removed] the proposal to reduce his damage 10-30

Lian
[Removed] Enlightenment (ult) now refunds 40% (instead of 50%) if it kills an enemy [OR] Projectile speed of enlightenment is decreased.

Mal Damba
[Removed] Wekono's Curse legendary now also increases Mending Spirits cooldown by ~1 sec.

Androxus
[Removed-Fixed] Increase health by ~100-200

Buck
[Removed] Bounce House legendary deals ~100 less.
[Removed] Bulk Up legendary heals ~100 less and increased max health for 4s instead of 5.

Talus
[Removed] Reduce his Overcharge fire rate from 33% to 27%.

PrismastebanZ
03-03-2018, 12:26 AM
Inara
-Reduce Warder Field's health by ~400

Just buy bulldozer. As an Inara main who loves "Wrath of the Stagalla" that mains her for her variety of abilities, fun ult (My Best Friend/Sister from another mother mains Seris so we always try to combine our ults :P) and/or card combos (I love summit 7u7) and her personality, I pretty much dislike a bit "Treachoruos ground" (or however it's called in english the F's legendary :P) and/or, mostly, Inara "mains" that use her in comptitive only for that legendary. I would't mind if they decrease the radious by 25% or just make the slow/cripple effects by ticks/every second, so it can be countered a bit by resilience.