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View Full Version : Why does Pips healing potion feel so clunky?



Rustjaw
12-28-2017, 08:23 AM
I main Pip and have no problem UP/OP about him, but why is his heal so damned awkward to use? He's already one of the hardest supports to play as an actual healer, his kit doesn't need to work against him. It breaks on walls right next to people and doesn't heal them, if you hit a staircase/ramp it won't heal people above the stair it hit, and there doesn't seem to be a hitbox under the actual effect almost at all. I've also seen it go clean through characters without activating. Even with the mandatory 20% size increase it whiffs people right next to it sometimes for seemingly no reason.

I wanted to main him a long time ago but I remember his heal potion had a hockey-puck-shaped hitbox and I could never get it to hit the people I threw it at. I was told this was changed awhile back but I see no evidence of it. I can get it to heal people now but it's so finicky and aggravating, and it leads to me missing some really clutch heals on low players even though I landed it right next to them.

The other thing it really suffers from is that the actual bottle projectile is ENORMOUS so you hit things like door frames and such that you never even came close to. Earlier I was standing next to a wall and when I threw the potion it spawned inside the wall and broke instantly, goodbye Viktor I really wish that had hit you. Seris/Jenos/Mal'Damba don't have to deal with this and their heals are way better (Maybe Mal'Dambas Gourd has similar problems but I don't play him enough to know).

Why is it still like this so long after release? Are there any plans to change it to be more consistent?

LeonGra
12-28-2017, 09:29 AM
These "bugs" or whatever we should call them, are very annoying. What happens is that the game defines them as walls, and not a steep surface. This results in the game thinking it is supposed to bounce of it, or that the next staircase step isn't inside the radius of the healing potion. If you hit a wall with the Healing Potion, it doesn't makes sense that it heals someone on top of the wall, right? It's obvious they are not intended, like the Andro's Reversal bug/Fernando shield bug, but just like those bugs, Hi-Rez are taking their time to fix it. Since I main Damba as my healer, I can tell you, Damba has the same problem with his Gourd (And his ult).

landylan
12-28-2017, 06:08 PM
One reason it's clunky is that you need "left hand advantage". Walls to your left will hit the potion as it spawns since it has a huge hitbox and spawns from the left side.

The hitbox is too big.

To fix the problem with the game recognizing stairs and such as an impediment, there should be another point spawned slightly above where the potion detonated. From that point is where the actual explosion would be, and the potion would then work better in most cases.

I have had the most success with pip when i try to detonate the potion before it hits the ground. Maybe if the base potion speed was lowered, predetonating would be more effective

Rustjaw
12-28-2017, 11:54 PM
Since I main Damba as my healer, I can tell you, Damba has the same problem with his Gourd (And his ult).

I figured this could be an issue with him since it's more or less the same projectile. At least Mal'Dambas gourd has a lingering after-effect people can still make use of. Pip misses and it's just gone.


To fix the problem with the game recognizing stairs and such as an impediment, there should be another point spawned slightly above where the potion detonated. From that point is where the actual explosion would be, and the potion would then work better in most cases.

Yeah, while I appreciate their attention to detail that stairs are actually stairs and not just ramps that look like stairs, in most cases this is not actually a good thing mechanically. If it hits the inner corner of 2 stairs it nullifies half of the splash instantly because you're throwing it into a right angle.




I have had the most success with pip when i try to detonate the potion before it hits the ground. Maybe if the base potion speed was lowered, predetonating would be more effective

I have to do this most of the time but you're right the speed is a problem. I'm not sure if it's latency or how the throw works, but it seems to teleport the last 5-10 feet. I throw the potion, I see it in the air, then it vanishes and instantly hits the surface. This makes closer range airbursting much more difficult.


It's already so difficult to play him as a main healer (which I find myself doing almost every game I pick Pip), this really needs to be addressed.

SlayerBu
12-29-2017, 12:05 AM
It's already so difficult to play him as a main healer (which I find myself doing almost every game I pick Pip), this really needs to be addressed.
what if i told you hes not a main healer ? and hes more of a side piece to a another non main healer,Or a main healer.

Rustjaw
12-29-2017, 12:15 AM
what if i told you hes not a main healer ? and hes more of a side piece to a another non main healer,Or a main healer.

What if I told you that you can't control what other people pick?

What if I told you that because he isn't "supposed to be" a main healer doesn't mean his kit deserves to be this aggravating to use when stuck being your teams only support?

SlayerBu
12-29-2017, 12:27 AM
What if I told you that you can't control what other people pick?

What if I told you that because he isn't "supposed to be" a main healer doesn't mean his kit deserves to be this aggravating to use when stuck being your teams only support?

You just blew my mind :D:D:D:D::D:D::D so pip should be buffed on the basis "other people don't pick supports" :D:D:D:D

you do you bro :D good luck.

they should fix the potion rest is horseshit.

Rustjaw
12-29-2017, 01:44 AM
they should fix the potion rest is horseshit.

The rest of what? This entire thread is about healing potion.

SlayerBu
12-29-2017, 02:06 AM
i mean i agree with the initial post, although you might just panic press q several times. Occasionally you're absolutely right the potion acts weirdly on steps and door frames.But if i throw it at air, it works fine. this part is all true i agree with you 100%

but i didn't reply with a quote to your main post right? i replied to one of the things you mentioned in a response to someone.


It's already so difficult to play him as a main healer (which I find myself doing almost every game I pick Pip), this really needs to be addressed.

you picking pip as a main healer is not a good idea to begin with. Fact that you do it almost every game is also a mistake.And you don't balance the game around mistakes players make... thats insanely retarded proposition to make.

heres some examples

Why doesn't grover heal for 1.2k with hes bloom? im stuck as a main healer on grover and i can't seem to keep my team alive.(cause hes not a main healer)

Why doesn't Seris deal as much damage as Pip or Cassie? (maybe because her archtype is a main healer)

if the hit box doesn't works as intended it should be fixed 100%.
great post.

Rustjaw
12-29-2017, 03:03 AM
I'm glad you agree with the actual point of the thread, but you're also trying to start an argument that was never there.


you picking pip as a main healer is not a good idea to begin with. Fact that you do it almost every game is also a mistake.And you don't balance the game around mistakes players make... thats insanely retarded proposition to make.

In casual if I pick Pip no one else goes support, that isn't all my fault but I still try my best to heal and really don't have any problem with mainhealing as him (like I already said) except that the potion throw is buggy. I switch to Seris all the time because of it, but I just want to play my favorite character in casual. He's capable of close to the same healing numbers as other supports if his potion feels like working, plus a ton of damage. If his kit worked properly he would offer an extremely even balance of heals/dps like I feel he was always intended to.

Comp is very different where I almost always get a second support and am a flank Pip, if we have no support I don't mainheal Pip I choose something else. All I said is that it's difficult to play him as a main healer (which i don't think anyone could argue with) and that I get stuck doing it often, so I have a lot of experience with the problems with his healing potion.


You just blew my mind :D:D:D:D::D:D::D so pip should be buffed on the basis "other people don't pick supports" :D:D:D:D

You're saying I'm asking for a buff which I never even alluded to. The very first sentence in my post I said I don't think he's underpowered or overpowered at all. I'm asking if there are any plans to rework an extremely clunky ability that could be way more consistent. That's literally it.

SlayerBu
12-29-2017, 03:26 AM
yeah i guess you're right about not asking for a buff, i guess that's something i assumed reading .

Rustjaw
12-29-2017, 06:39 AM
yeah i guess you're right about not asking for a buff, i guess that's something i assumed reading .

No worries man. Just glad we agree on healing potions bugginess.

I don't even know if anyone who could do anything about it reads these forums/posts but if there's even a slight chance that a thread about it could end up getting it fixed then I gotta try.

This could be a larger issue though, and not just a Pip one. I think this might be the way all explosions are calculated, because I've had similar things happen with Bomb King. It just isn't as detrimental because there are 5 more coming behind it. You feel it way more with Pip because if you whiff one someone dies, and it's ~8 seconds before you get another chance.

There's a fine line between the effects hitting clean through walls and the effects stopping on a piece of paper on the ground I know, but something's gotta give.

Gwadachou
12-29-2017, 07:02 AM
I don't even know if anyone who could do anything about it reads these forums/posts but if there's even a slight chance that a thread about it could end up getting it fixed then I gotta try.

A frooglepoopillion posts/thread had already been made regarding this issue. To my knowledge it is there for ages and if the dev spoke about it I missed it.

Rustjaw
12-29-2017, 08:06 AM
A frooglepoopillion posts/thread had already been made regarding this issue. To my knowledge it is there for ages and if the dev spoke about it I missed it.

I don't imagine I'm the first to complain about it, but maybe after over a year it could be fixed?

Not too hopeful considering things like getting stuck on a normal floor in a choke in ice caverns has been left in game for this long, though.

MrsCrii
12-29-2017, 03:59 PM
With Reload and Mega Potion it's quite easy to run Pip as main healer. You have to be aware of the issues with the potion but with decent aim and awareness you can support your team as effectively as most other healers.

missy20201
12-30-2017, 11:56 PM
what if i told you hes not a main healer ? and hes more of a side piece to a another non main healer,Or a main healer.

I know this was resolved, but tbh what are you on? Pip can be great as a main healer, and Grover too. Just depends on how you use 'em.

But yes, I wish Pip's bugs would finally end... please... not that I play much anymore but y'know.