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dpmaragoni
12-22-2017, 12:16 AM
Ok, so hirez is trying to make comp fair right... well for one they need to work on how much tp you lose when you actually lost a match. I have to win at least 3 matches to get the same amount of tp that I would get if I lose a match. Like wtf is up with that system. I think that they should make the amount of tp that you lose the same for winning and losing that way it's not so hard to rank up in paladins.

Let me know how you guys feel about how the tp system is set up.

M3RC3N4RI0
12-22-2017, 12:56 AM
A system where a computer decides arbitrarily who levels up and who levels down is not really a fair competition.

ìNS4N3
12-22-2017, 11:56 AM
i actually win more than i lose...maybe ur Hidden MMR is rly bad so you lose a lot of TP and you gain very little... The system is like every other MMR system ... not too bad, not too good either.

M3RC3N4RI0
12-22-2017, 12:09 PM
i actually win more than i lose...maybe ur Hidden MMR is rly bad so you lose a lot of TP and you gain very little... The system is like every other MMR system ... not too bad, not too good either.Not really. In ranked at WoWs you at least know every time why you loose a star and why you get one. There are also performance-stars, the "best player" of the loosing team gets one, but you see your performance stats at the end of the match and you have a quite good idea at least how they are calculated.

In my opinion the only thing that should count is if you win or if you loose.

ìNS4N3
12-22-2017, 12:16 PM
In my opinion the only thing that should count is if you win or if you loose.

thats actually the thing what happens here. But there is no point in having a guy who won a few games with 5stack premade and went to lets say Plat 3, stay plat and have the same MMR after losing 20 games in a row (should be ~low plat 5) like a guy who won 30 games in a row and just climbed to Plat 5 himself.

If you lose more than 50% of your games, youre simply not in the Elo(Division/Tier) you should be, so the system tries to fix that by letting you lose more TP. If youre able to Climb and win more than 50% of you games (yes even 50.01 is enough) you dont belong in your Elo either so the System gives you more TP.

Its simple and im pretty sure theyre using the same MMR rating other games use. (look at DOTA/LoL)


And since i havent played WoW Since WOTLK and mainly just played Arena there.... you lose a ton of points if you lose vs a team with lower MMR and you gain more if you win vs a Team with higher MMR ... according to ur logic these games should give the same Points.


And if you keep losing in a game, Your division simple doesnt represent your skill. So the System will try everything to fix that - or do you think its fair for (lets assume plat 3 again) if "real plat 3 players" have to play with a bronze 5 player just because he got carried to Diamond and lost every single game after that? - no? yeah...the system neither ...so if you lose a lot your MMR goes down, you get less TP and you lose more TP to let your Elo match ur MMR.... its not complicated and MMR system wont be revealed cause of abusing issues.



(And btw...giving "best player" points is a terrible idea for a game like this...ppl win run around just to kill / not to die so they get more points/lose less - and dont focus on actually doing a good job as a team.)

M3RC3N4RI0
12-22-2017, 01:00 PM
thats actually the thing what happens here. But there is no point in having a guy who won a few games with 5stack premade and went to lets say Plat 3, stay plat and have the same MMR after losing 20 games in a row (should be ~low plat 5) like a guy who won 30 games in a row and just climbed to Plat 5 himself. What's a premade good for? This is just the nonsense I mean.



If you lose more than 50% of your games, youre simply not in the Elo(Division/Tier) you should be, so the system tries to fix that by letting you lose more TP. If youre able to Climb and win more than 50% of you games (yes even 50.01 is enough) you dont belong in your Elo either so the System gives you more TP. An ELO is something completely different from a tier/lvl. It's a secret number calculated somehow by your playstyle and whatnot. If you gain 10 points for a win and loose 10 points for a loss and make a tier at 100 points it just works fine. And no, the system doesn't give you more TP if you win 51%. Even if, I see no reason why it should.


And since i havent played WoW Since WOTLKWoWs=World of Warships



And btw...giving "best player" points is a terrible idea for a game like this...ppl win run around just to kill / not to die so they get more points/lose less - and dont focus on actually doing a good job as a team.Yes it is. And it's crap at WoWs. But what is better that there I know exactly what to do to level up. While at Paladins you can guess, but you don't know for sure what you did wrong if you loose 25TP for a loss after you gained 5TP for a win. It might be your playstyle, since you play a support as damage. Could be everything. Even a bug.

ìNS4N3
12-22-2017, 01:34 PM
What's a premade good for? This is just the nonsense I mean.
A Premade can easily carry a "lower" player to a higher division.



An ELO is something completely different from a tier/lvl.
your Tier shows your general ELO to other players.



If you gain 10 points for a win and loose 10 points for a loss and make a tier at 100 points it just works fine. And no, the system doesn't give you more TP if you win 51%. Even if, I see no reason why it should.
No. "it just works fine" - yes for ppl who wanna stay in Divisions they dont belong in.
And yes the System rewards ppl who win more with more TP. - not general winrate, but division according to MMR and Winrate atm. If i meet someone in a lobby who just lost 10 games in a row while i won 10 games in a row, and we lose this game, he will most likely lose more TP than I do. And thats a good System, because it rewards you for winning games - based on your MMR. If your MMR is (just throwing in some stupid numbers here) 3k, while you are ~Plat1 ...Your MMR is way higher than the average in your division (maybe you lost all your Placement matches -went bronze 5- but won like 95% of your games after - like i said some stupid, unrealistic numbers) So you should get more TP to let the System match your division with your MMR/ELO - so other ppl can see your Elo, based on your Tier/Division.





Yes it is. And it's crap at WoWs. But what is better that there I know exactly what to do to level up. While at Paladins you can guess, but you don't know for sure what you did wrong if you loose 25TP for a loss after you gained 5TP for a win. It might be your playstyle, since you play a support as damage. Could be everything. Even a bug.

It couldnt be anything. Its just you lost vs a Team that was more likely to lose vs your team (Based on MMR). So if you win vs a team that has 1k MMR while your team got 2k you will get lower TP. If its the other way around and your team is 2k and you lose vs a team with 1k you lose more TP.
And what you did wrong is simple: You lost. And if you are rly interested in WHY you lost, go and watch replays.


There are much worse games where you cant see anything at all - like CSGO, you get a rank ..but you dont know how close you are to a derank/promotion. At least you can see that in Paladins.

And if you need more explanation how an ELO/MMR system works ...google it. There are tons of Guides (even one for paladins - on the PALADINS PAGE BTW. ) Or just look at other games who use an ELO System with Divisions/Tiers Like LoL (or OW?) or even Smite (not sure about that one)

Jakdaw
12-22-2017, 01:40 PM
if you lose 25tp it means your hidden rating is way below the rank bracket (eg. gold 1) you are in. If you have a run of winning games your hidden rating goes up and the amount of tp you gain for wins increases as your hidden rating catches up to your rank.

ìNS4N3
12-22-2017, 02:07 PM
if you lose 25tp it means your hidden rating is way below the rank bracket (eg. gold 1) you are in. If you have a run of winning games your hidden rating goes up and the amount of tp you gain for wins increases as your hidden rating catches up to your rank.

Thanks. nothing more to say. Just Thanks.

M3RC3N4RI0
12-22-2017, 08:48 PM
if you lose 25tp it means your hidden rating is way below the rank bracket (eg. gold 1) you are in. If you have a run of winning games your hidden rating goes up and the amount of tp you gain for wins increases as your hidden rating catches up to your rank.Yes. I know. And in my opion this is bullshit. If you play soccer, or basketball, or whatever, do you get more points because the other team is stronger? Or do you get more points, if you have a winning streak? No, you don't. Would the soccer league be better if the team that won the last four games gets more points? No. This is good for nothing.

Jakdaw
12-22-2017, 09:23 PM
Everything you just said is completely irrelevant. This is a ranking system for thousands of individuals not a closed league where you play against the same teams.

The idea is for the system to get you to a level you can compete at and find competitive as quickly as possible. It works at doing that.
I went 6-9 in my placements and got put in bronze 2. I am NOT a bronze player and I proved it by winning 32 out of my next 46 games and ending up in plat 3 via four promotions through silver 3, gold 5 and gold 1. I had a lot of upward momentum and the system got me closer to a place where it was more competitive for me.
If things worked the way you think they should, with 10 points for a win and minus 10 for a loss I would have gotten fewer promotions and spent a lot more time in very low rankings ruining games for people who aren't at my level.