PDA

View Full Version : Gather some opinions on Fernando



Ironmonger42
05-17-2017, 08:18 PM
I plan to make a post later, but for now I just want people to vote in the poll above. I really want to know what active forum members think about Fernando. I'm not stating my opinion. Just gathering the opinion of others.

Note: you may select multiple options

DrSteelz
05-18-2017, 09:48 AM
I see a lot of people on here wanting damage buffs on Fernando, I think this is the wrong way to go as he does so much damage when played right. Done 150k damage with him in a match and have had several matches were i have done well over 100k damage with him.

The problem is Aegis is the strongest legendary for him, people go to the point and just sit with shield. This is wrong a good Fernando shouldn't rely on his shield he should charge of point and chase down low hp enemies for kills. Plus only use his shield to block burst damage, CC and debuffs as its countered pretty hard by wrecker late game.

The other legendary cards only support Flank Nando play styles best. Formidable gives you more self sustain but you need your shield more often for the burst damage, CC and debuff protection. Making it hard to tank the point like an Aegis Fernando would. Making it a better choice if you have no support or want to flank. To me scorch is a terrible legendary, its just a band aid for the bonus damage that was removed from his kit and isn't that useful unless you plan on flanking.

Fernando in his current state is pretty balanced and much better than most people realized, especially since he had a buff to his damage. But Aegis is the only reason why I would say he is balanced. I think what he really needs is none of the above in this voting poll, he needs either a buff for formidable and scorch or they need to be reworked. Maybe formidable could also give him the healing when he ults as well as on the 45 seconds cool down. Or the cool down could be adjusted to 40 seconds or 35 seconds. As for scorch maybe fireball or charge could have a cool down reduction if you take scorch to make scorch a bit more viable. This does encourage Flank nando thought however people will flank with him regardless.

Sorry btw this is a smurf account because i couldn't log into the forum using my Facebook account that i use for paladins. I have Fernando Diamond rank and also have the Self appointed knight title. I hope this information is helpful.

Ironmonger42
05-18-2017, 10:08 AM
I see a lot of people on here wanting damage buffs on Fernando, I think this is the wrong way to go as he does so much damage when played right. Done 150k damage with him in a match and have had several matches were i have done well over 100k damage with him.

The problem is Aegis is the strongest legendary for him, people go to the point and just sit with shield. This is wrong a good Fernando shouldn't rely on his shield he should charge of point and chase down low hp enemies for kills. Plus only use his shield to block burst damage, CC and debuffs as its countered pretty hard by wrecker late game.

The other legendary cards only support Flank Nando play styles best. Formidable gives you more self sustain but you need your shield more often for the burst damage, CC and debuff protection. Making it hard to tank the point like an Aegis Fernando would. Making it a better choice if you have no support or want to flank. To me scorch is a terrible legendary, its just a band aid for the bonus damage that was removed from his kit and isn't that useful unless you plan on flanking.

Fernando in his current state is pretty balanced and much better than most people realized, especially since he had a buff to his damage. But Aegis is the only reason why I would say he is balanced. I think what he really needs is none of the above in this voting poll, he needs either a buff for formidable and scorch or they need to be reworked. Maybe formidable could also give him the healing when he ults as well as on the 45 seconds cool down. Or the cool down could be adjusted to 40 seconds or 35 seconds. As for scorch maybe fireball or charge could have a cool down reduction if you take scorch to make scorch a bit more viable. This does encourage Flank nando thought however people will flank with him regardless.

Sorry btw this is a smurf account because i couldn't log into the forum using my Facebook account that i use for paladins. I have Fernando Diamond rank and also have the Self appointed knight title. I hope this information is helpful.

I have seen a lot of Fernando's do good damage. I have him at lv 8 or 9 with a platinum frame (I know the frames don't really mean much). I tend to do much better with him when I'm proactive and aggressive. He's a good main tank, but yet underutilized if he sits on the point the whole time.

I do agree that Aegis is a little too good. I'm conflicted, though, because I still feel like aegis could do even more. For example, take away the infinite shield duration and add something like "Shield takes no damage for the first 2 seconds after it is deployed" or something like that if that's not OP. I'd love to see a legendary that is as useful late game as it is early that isn't related to damage. Formidable sort of does that, but yeah the cooldown is so long you rarely see it a second time before you die.

Flank-nando is fun, but it would be nice if HiRez stop encouraging it. I saw someone say they'd like to see Scorch have some sort of healing effect. They said that if Fernando hits 2 people with Fireball while equipped with scorch he should maybe get some flat health or maybe give lifesteal to fireball.

DrSteelz
05-18-2017, 11:33 PM
Infinite shield is a joke, in higher tiers were people buy wrecker his shield doesn't even last 2 seconds. I do like the 2 second no damage shield idea. But with the right card in your deck Fernando is rewarded with more mobility if your shield is destroyed that quick, a reset on charge. They could remove the infinite shield part and that legendary is still the strongest. This is because the 8 second cool down allows Fernando a lot more utility and survivability with his shield. The only people it would hurt are the ones that go afk on the point with the shield. I think that would be a change for the better, it would force people to use Fernando properly and realize hes much more than a potato with a shield. However I still stick by my original opinions, Formidable and scorch need to be buffed to the level of aegis to encourage other Fernando play styles.

I think encouraging Flank nando is fine, people are going to do it regardless. Flank king, flanknara, flank ruckus, flank seris etc. People will find builds to do it with on any champ. Its only a problem if its OP and carries teams like Fernando pre ob34 and bomb king after lag comp. Its only useful and fun in low and mid tier games.

Kandros
05-19-2017, 05:40 AM
His ult probably need a rework because it only postpones his death for 4 seconds if there's no support with burst healing nearby. If Drogoz failed to Dragon Punch you he can just wait and wipe your 1500 HP with his LMB. Fernando's ult is too situational compared to other champions' ults. Self-healing through shield (Last Stand card) + Aegis is barely reliable too because of wrecker. Aegis itself triggers enemies to buy and level up wrecker to tier 3.

Fernando is too slow, too close-combat(-ed?) and depends on his shield more than he should. He is my main frontliner (have him at level 17 atm) but it becomes more and more difficult to main him after every single patch.

LookGooD
05-19-2017, 06:04 AM
Nando is Purrrrfect but I still think his base health should be buffed. like around 700-800'ish.

Ironmonger42
05-19-2017, 01:09 PM
I've always thought that if Fernando was every buffed and he could have only 1 buff, it would be the rate at which his ultimate charges (before Moral Boost). His ultimate does need some improvements, like maybe a higher threshold for Fernando than the allies near him, or maybe a reward for saving the life of an ally (like a burst of healing or instant shield recharge if an ally in the radius would have died). However, if they don't do that, i just want to ult more often. Drogoz can ult almost twice as often as fernando, which is sad because fernando is supposed to be Drogoz's counter

DrSteelz
05-19-2017, 07:34 PM
His ult probably need a rework because it only postpones his death for 4 seconds if there's no support with burst healing nearby. If Drogoz failed to Dragon Punch you he can just wait and wipe your 1500 HP with his LMB. Fernando's ult is too situational compared to other champions' ults. Self-healing through shield (Last Stand card) + Aegis is barely reliable too because of wrecker. Aegis itself triggers enemies to buy and level up wrecker to tier 3.

Fernando is too slow, too close-combat(-ed?) and depends on his shield more than he should. He is my main frontliner (have him at level 17 atm) but it becomes more and more difficult to main him after every single patch.

His ult needs a rework??? You have made Fernando angry, I shall render your head from your shoulders.

Fernando arguably has one of the best ults in the game. It counters pretty much every other ult in the game not just for you but for your entire team. Close to winning a 5 v 5 push and you hear times ticking, death awaits you all, barrage incoming. Ult immediatly and you will save your team and win the push. Or be selfish and ult when you have 1500 hp and your teams dead and wonder why you lose the push and complain that 4 seconds of immortality is useless... No give your king a big hug, no bring out the big guns, no gaze into the abiss or its working its working, no lets make this interesting etc... These arent situational either, they occur every game.

Fernandos ult charge is fine you dont gain ult charge from using your shield, which is good. You gain ult charge really fast from hitting enemies with your flame lance and fireballs, especially if they are grouped up. So the game rewards you for being more than a potato with a shield.

WolfGamez5
05-20-2017, 01:21 AM
I see a lot of people on here wanting damage buffs on Fernando, I think this is the wrong way to go as he does so much damage when played right. Done 150k damage with him in a match and have had several matches were i have done well over 100k damage with him.


I would agree with you, but...his damage is in the wrong form. His major problem, in my opinion, is that Fernando does not punish people enough for coming into his range, something that is key for an frontline. Torvald has Runic Blast and good damage, Ruckus can swiss cheese someone at close range, Makoa can deal large burst damage. Inara has Warder's Field and good damage, Barik has high dps with his blunderbuss, and Fernando has...nothing. He needs to be more threatening at close range, because currently, you can walk through his shield with no punishment. I would personally buff his damage, but remove his "Burning" effect to compensate, as the effect does nothing for his kit but take away damage from the main weapon.

DrSteelz
05-20-2017, 03:25 AM
I would agree with you, but...his damage is in the wrong form. His major problem, in my opinion, is that Fernando does not punish people enough for coming into his range, something that is key for an frontline. Torvald has Runic Blast and good damage, Ruckus can swiss cheese someone at close range, Makoa can deal large burst damage. Inara has Warder's Field and good damage, Barik has high dps with his blunderbuss, and Fernando has...nothing. He needs to be more threatening at close range, because currently, you can walk through his shield with no punishment. I would personally buff his damage, but remove his "Burning" effect to compensate, as the effect does nothing for his kit but take away damage from the main weapon.
That's not true at all, Fernando is very punishing to people within his range, he just doesn't have 1 single ability that's punishing. Instead he does great combo damage, charge into enemy's that's 200 damage, turn around and fireball add another 450 with reduced healing plus use flame lance which works out to be 450 damage per second with the burn debuff. That's a lot of damage to one or more targets in your range in 2 seconds, over 1000 damage. Thats enough to make any smart damage dealer, flank or support back off. The ones that don't back off will die from your sustained fire and cant do enough damage to you because you are so tanky and if you are low on hp then put up your shield. This combo can be spammed a lot with the right cards in your build. I run Incinerate IV in all my builds (40% cooldown reduction on fireball) plus chronos makes fireball a great utility and usable every 4 ~ 5 seconds. Plus heat transfer reduces the cooldown of charge when your shield takes damage. With wrecker you lose your shield quick giving you a free charge allowing you to do this all over again. Plus fearless leader gives you % cooldown for eliminations making this combo even more spammable. Also work your way to cauterize 3 and you take away their healing as well. You don't need to flank nando to take advantage off this. I use aegis and charge off the point all the time for kills, then charge back onto the point and put shield back up.

I don't want to see Fernando buffed in damage because I know that it will result in terrible kit nerfs later down the track. Makoa, barik and torvold are all good examples of this.

Kandros
05-20-2017, 04:42 AM
Ult immediatly and you will save your team and win the push.

That's easy for you to say. Such a perfect counter for multiple ults occurs once in a year. Every single time when I attempt to save my team from 3-4 enemy ultimates, they just spread and rush away out of the range of my ult leaving me alone with those miserable 1500 HP against full enemy team. Then I die screaming that not the faaaace thing and the rest of my team gets wiped out.

This ult needs probably not a rework but a buff. Let Fernando himself resetting all his cooldowns/have minimum 2500 HP instead of 1500 while teammates still can't be brought below 1500 HP. Let Fernando have some benefit from his own ult instead of using it as self-sacrifice.

About gaze into the abyss, its working, making this interesting, etc - you do know that Fernando's ult makes him immune to CC but NOT his teammates, don't you? So they still can be thrown out of the map, turned into chickens, etc.

I'm not selfish, at least I'm trying not to be.

DrSteelz
05-20-2017, 09:36 AM
That's easy for you to say. Such a perfect counter for multiple ults occurs once in a year. Every single time when I attempt to save my team from 3-4 enemy ultimates, they just spread and rush away out of the range of my ult leaving me alone with those miserable 1500 HP against full enemy team. Then I die screaming that not the faaaace thing and the rest of my team gets wiped out.

This ult needs probably not a rework but a buff. Let Fernando himself resetting all his cooldowns/have minimum 2500 HP instead of 1500 while teammates still can't be brought below 1500 HP. Let Fernando have some benefit from his own ult instead of using it as self-sacrifice.

About gaze into the abyss, its working, making this interesting, etc - you do know that Fernando's ult makes him immune to CC but NOT his teammates, don't you? So they still can be thrown out of the map, turned into chickens, etc.

I'm not selfish, at least I'm trying not to be.

Just listing examples of ult blocking situations, the example I gave was extreme to get my point across on how it should be used and how OP his ult can actually be. Blocking one ult in a situation like near finishing a push or defending a push, in overtime for capturing the point, saving team mates from an ult or even just stalling for 4 seconds. even a 5 v 5 defending a push when no one ults 4 seconds were your team mates cant die but can kill the other team is game changing. Your team will even thank you for using your ult to save them if its well timed. Unfortunately people do need to learn to stay in his ult and not run. Its only a problem in lower end casual games because people don't know. His ult is probably one of the hardest things in his kit to master.

Sorry I'm actually not sure about the CC was just listing example ults. I always thought everyone got the CC immunity, but then its pretty hard to notice something like that in game. That could make a good buff for his ult and i don't know why its not part of his ult already.

I like the idea of increasing his ult hp threshold to 2500 but that would make formidable even more useless than it already is as its above the 40% HP mark. People do use it and hope that formidable kicks in when they ult at 1500hp. Mind due they could buff formidable along with this change to the ult.

However I do believe Fernando's ult in its current state is really strong even without these buffs being added to it. Meaning maybe he needs a buff somewhere else, that's why I think buffing his least used legendary's might be good.

addysomaddy
05-20-2017, 09:57 AM
This thread made me play as Fernando after many months. I love Fernando sooo much! (Click!) (http://paladins.guru/match/pc/115954766)

Ironmonger42
05-20-2017, 08:00 PM
I agree and disagree, DrSteelz. I agree that Fernando isn't nearly as weak as players give him, but I disagree that his offensive capabilities are perfect the way they are. Fernando shouldn't be able to burst enemies, but I do think he needs to more of a threat. The problem is that his "threat" doesn't need to be actual damage. Enemies hit by fireball receive 1/2 healing for 3 seconds, which could be big, but it's hard to him to KEEP that pressure on the enemy.

I think a solution might be to make the Scorch legendary for his weapon, not fireball. This might be more OP than it sounds to me, but what if the Scorch legendary removed the effect that slowed Fernando when using Flame Lance. This wouldn't buff his damage, but would help him stick to people. If that's too OP, maybe reduce the default movement penalty while firing from 50% to something like 25% or 20%. Being slow while firing is kind of Ruckus's thing. Plus, Ruckus has much better range, so being slow isn't as devastating to him.

Things like that could make him stronger without actually affecting his DPS directly. The numbers would stay the same, but escaping him would be harder, thus making his pressure more annoying and actually worth being concerned about.

DrSteelz
05-20-2017, 09:16 PM
I agree and disagree, DrSteelz. I agree that Fernando isn't nearly as weak as players give him, but I disagree that his offensive capabilities are perfect the way they are. Fernando shouldn't be able to burst enemies, but I do think he needs to more of a threat. The problem is that his "threat" doesn't need to be actual damage. Enemies hit by fireball receive 1/2 healing for 3 seconds, which could be big, but it's hard to him to KEEP that pressure on the enemy.

I think a solution might be to make the Scorch legendary for his weapon, not fireball. This might be more OP than it sounds to me, but what if the Scorch legendary removed the effect that slowed Fernando when using Flame Lance. This wouldn't buff his damage, but would help him stick to people. If that's too OP, maybe reduce the default movement penalty while firing from 50% to something like 25% or 20%. Being slow while firing is kind of Ruckus's thing. Plus, Ruckus has much better range, so being slow isn't as devastating to him.

Things like that could make him stronger without actually affecting his DPS directly. The numbers would stay the same, but escaping him would be harder, thus making his pressure more annoying and actually worth being concerned about.

Reduced movement speed penalty while using flame lance, haha do you want flanknando in every game you play... Thats why Fernando has a movement speed penalty of 50% without it he can follow people til they die while firing and carry whole teams to victory... Im starting to get sick of this (Fernando needs more damage) he has more damage potiental than, makoa, torvold and maybe inara and barik. He is the tankiest except for maybe ob50 inara with a good burst healer. Hes also got alot of movement over the other tanks with the lowest cooldown on charge. He is also very threatening in his current state with his combo damage. Much more threatening than, torvold, barik and inara. So yeah Fernando is in a good place right now.

Watch this, Im pretty sure it was made before fernando's 50% mobility nerf : https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x1ZgyVBs7nA

Z1R0
05-21-2017, 09:37 AM
IMO nando is the weakest tank atm.
his only shield is wiped so fast once you have 2 dmg and some wreckers.
other then that he is just a sitting target.

In open maps where he cant shield block the whole point (like bright marsh and castle) he is a big disadvantage.
die so fast.

Problem is that with the current state of the game 2 tanks are bad, yet nando cant really be a sole tank.

DrSteelz
05-21-2017, 09:07 PM
IMO nando is the weakest tank atm.
his only shield is wiped so fast once you have 2 dmg and some wreckers.
other then that he is just a sitting target.

In open maps where he cant shield block the whole point (like bright marsh and castle) he is a big disadvantage.
die so fast.

Problem is that with the current state of the game 2 tanks are bad, yet nando cant really be a sole tank.
Fernando is a great solo tank, actually its better to solo tank with him, unless you flank nando. He has one of the highest winrates in the game... Brighmarsh is one of fernandos best maps for chasing enemies into confined areas for kills. If your not charging of point for kills then your not playing Fernando right...

http://forums.paladins.com/showthread.php?39963-All-Champion-Win-Rates-(May-8th-2017)

You would know this by now if you took the time read all the helpful information in this thread.

Hexadermia
05-21-2017, 10:49 PM
they just spread and rush away out of the range of my ult leaving me alone with those miserable 1500 HP against full enemy team.

This, it's almost like people don't actually know how his ult works. I main him, and if I'm Drogoz and my team has a Fern and he ults, I immediately drop from from the skies to back him up with damage while being an immortal Drogoz for 4 seconds, heck, sometimes, my healer dies from a Drogoz ult when I ult because they ran away from Drogoz and got out of the range.

Ironmonger42
05-24-2017, 11:39 AM
Watch this, Im pretty sure it was made before fernando's 50% mobility nerf : https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x1ZgyVBs7nA

After watching the video, i noticed something: this seems to be before they added that movement bonus don't stack. Meaning? Fernando can't use that build anymore. None of them stack, even with nimble. Maybe this means reducing the movement penalty would actually be OK now, as such a build isn't possible anymore.

DrSteelz
05-24-2017, 08:22 PM
After watching the video, i noticed something: this seems to be before they added that movement bonus don't stack. Meaning? Fernando can't use that build anymore. None of them stack, even with nimble. Maybe this means reducing the movement penalty would actually be OK now, as such a build isn't possible anymore.

haha movement speed bonus from fireball and charge are still pretty strong even if its just 30%. I mean they could reduce his penalty a little bit but they still need to be careful. Im well aware these dont stack, and that wasnt the point of the video.