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View Full Version : "Barik is too strong, he needs a nerf"



M0J0E
05-01-2017, 07:59 PM
-No one, ever

I cannot for the life of me fathom why Hirez is so hellbent on nerfing Barik. Since OB40 when I started playing Paladins they have given him a major nerf 3 times:

OB44 nerfed his turrets so they no longer mark enemies. This was the main reason to put down turrets in the first place, since their damage is negligible and they get destroyed very easily too. Now they're just a diversion and nothing more. As "compensation" they gave us Tinkerin', you know, that useless legendary card that nobody uses?

OB46 took away some of his basic attack damage to try and justify the existence of this same garbage legendary. He was brought down to the DPS of Torvald, except that Torvald is actually much more threatening at close range because he can CC and his attacks never miss, and is MUCH tankier to boot.

OB49 is now going to nerf the only remaining good part of his kit, the shield. I was running a loadout that maximized the duration and minimized the cooldown, and I'd always take Fortify legendary and Chronos as the first item. The result is that Barik can put the shield up, and if it doesn't get destroyed before it expires there's only 2 seconds of downtime on it. Sounds great... until you realize that 1) it's stationary and Barik has to be very careful where he places it, 2) all the maps besides Ice Mines are very flank-friendly and one of them will eventually get behind you, 3) all AOE attacks like Tyra's and Maldamba's can go through it and force everybody away from it, 4) anyone who feels like soloing Barik can just walk through the shield and kill him, because Barik's DPS is very weak, and that removes the shield immediately.

In fairness, Makoa did have a pretty cheesy loadout that revolves around a card named Barrier Reef, where the cooldown is reduced based on how much damage the shield absorbed. Combined with the Half Shell legendary this could get fairly oppressive. The obvious solution was just to nerf Barrier Reef specifically, but of course Hirez had to take their hamfisted approach to balance and bring down Barik with him, when everyone's complaint was about Makoa and not Barik.

Barik was picked several times during the last tournament, maybe that's why they decided to nerf him? Because god forbid a tank other than Makoa sees some tournament play...

The whole shield aspect was the main reason I played Barik, it was my favorite thing about him and never once did I hear anyone say that it was too strong. Barik already has plenty of weaknesses, and without that shield he is the most useless frontline by far, with low damage and low health and no CC in his kit. What am I supposed to do in the 11-15 seconds while I have no shield and no way to assist my team? Build a turret that will get destroyed immediately? Dash behind a wall and deal <100 damage to anyone I see?

And as the final kick in the nuts, all of this is BEFORE even considering the new champion who can delete shields with a single button press.

In case you haven't gathered this yet, I am extremely salty right now. I was taking a break from Paladins for a few days with every intention of coming back, but now I think I'm going to stay away for a while longer since I don't like the direction this game is heading. It's like Hirez actively hates the frontline class and wants to not-so-subtly encourage everyone to instalock damage/flank instead.

Gordre
05-01-2017, 08:25 PM
I understand the rant, but shielding Barik is not the only reliable Barik. With good positioning for Turrets, his Turret legendary can make he get a lot more damage, especially since the shots don't miss. Turrets positioning is not easy, it requires a little quick reading on enemy positioning so you can think a place where they will not see the turret so easy and will get some shots if they dare to show up closer to the payload/objective. Tinkerin can be good with some Flarik builds, but I never played it myself so much with that one to be sure. I think the legendary of the shield itself is getting some pain, since with that legendary one needs to rely on shield builds, and with the cool down only starting after the shield vanishes, it will be a pain to have it activated too much time if you miss the right moment to put it on the ground and the enemies pass through it. Maybe the legendary would need to be buffed, but I don't think the other two builds will be too much affected by the last nerf.

DrDuckSmithy
05-01-2017, 08:27 PM
I understand as well, Barik was once my favorite go to champion before he can solo cap the point thanks to his incredible sustain the turrets give him as well as shields but somehow they nerfed it all into oblivion even the unnecessary ones but this one I must say didn't they figured it out that the People who complain on frontlines never bothered to even buy wrecker and instead all buy either cauterize or haven which is ridiculously stupid, I liked the older patches where shielding was a thing and that everyone knew how to counter champions by buying the correct items but now... new players like the easy carry life that's why they persistently complain to Hi-Rez to spoon feed them buffs and nerfs making the TTK even lesser than ever, heck they just wanna destroy the competitive aspect of the game itself and instead go in for just salty casual matches that require little to no skill at all.

P.S.- Did you just made a click bait title?

WarMongger
05-01-2017, 09:27 PM
barik is not strong his turret is just annoying if you too focus on 1v1 barik his turret taking all the glory

NakFour2
05-01-2017, 09:38 PM
Barik is already more boring than 3 months ago. You cant rush into smn face and do some decent damage. Even with tinkerin. It required good awareness and timing. Now you can only put turrets on the same positions or use shield legendary to stay behind your shield and wait (unimportant shooting).

In this patch he will be weak as well.

SiderumNocte
05-01-2017, 09:45 PM
The obvious solution was just to nerf Barrier Reef specifically

Logic.
"What's Logic?" Said Hi-Rez.
Their balancing proposals are perplexing at the very least.

EnKrYan
05-01-2017, 09:52 PM
Completely agree with you here. Considering I mostly play supports and frontliners, this nerf on barik plus Willo's release is really just a kick in the nuts. It makes the few people who actually play frontlines and supports think twice about doing so esp if the enemy team has a willo.

I just dont understand Hi Rez logic. Oh, the community is complaining about Lex being overpowered? That his LMB can deal a lot of damage from a distance, has a 0 skill RMB, and that he can completely negate stealth with his retribution? LETS NERF BARIK THEN CUZ WHY NOT?

In an unrelated note, I'm still expecting a buff from inara. She needs some love, and I'm willing to give it to her. #BuffInara

+1 for clickbait title tho

SirRoss
05-02-2017, 02:57 AM
Don't forgett the ult nerf ;)

But I agree, why nerf Barik? There are more annoying champions in the realm like lex, but not Barik!

Kizaru89
05-02-2017, 03:36 AM
Ok hi rez with this patch wants a more lively and less static game and with this patch it is full. Already playing alone with barik in casual having one that cares you decent in the group is hard to find, but I had my barrier to make me company. But now I'm going to play a flank

MiraKabal
05-02-2017, 04:47 AM
Well said. I used to play Barik a lot but with the frequent nerfs to his kit it feels like Hi-Rez is actively trying to turn people away from playing him. I don't know, I always feel like Hi-Rez tolerates the existence of frontliners just because they're a mainstay of the genre. They're terrified of having a frontliner-heavy meta because in their mind they think that their audience wants a 'Call of Duty with abilities' kind of game. It's always "how to counter this champion with a flank or damage" with Hi-Rez, it's never "how to build a winning team comp".

I'm likewise considering quitting the game, but it has more to do with the shameful pushing of abusable op champions. It has gotten to the point where I’m expected to tolerate the op release of almost every new champion so that Hi-Rez can profit from the herd of stat-padders. And frankly, I have better things to do in my life that watch idiots be manipulated into buying the latest op champion, legendary, or whatever Hi-Rez will come up with next.

rixinthemix
05-02-2017, 04:53 AM
You know, a lively and less static game isn't automatically a game where players get killed at the littlest mistake. IN FACT, an instagib game like Team Fortress 2 can be boring at times.

Admit it, Hirez doesn't know what it's doing right now, we are all at the receiving end of their poor decisions.

Valkure
05-02-2017, 04:57 AM
I hate tank, I hate playing tank, I suck at tank. But not Barik: he's my favorite tank, and the only one I seem to obtain something decent with. I sincerely can't understand why HiRez keeps nerfing tanks, since no one wants to play with them, it's a total non-sense.


I understand the rant, but shielding Barik is not the only reliable Barik.
I don't use shielding-Barik too, but the point on Legendary was to allow multiple playstyle for a champion. Nerfing something good is saying "you just don't have to use it, pick another!", so Legendary point doesn't exist anymore. We already know some champions are used 99% of time with only one card (Netherstep for Androxus, bonus dmg for Lex, maelstorm for Grohk...), so, why bother creating other 2?
You n eed 3 viable way to use a champion, so you can choose the style fits you more. Removing all basic bonus and put them into legendaries is s**t (who said "Cassie"?).



I'm likewise considering quitting the game, but it has more to do with the shameful pushing of abusable op champions. [...]
I have better things to do in my life that watch idiots be manipulated into buying the latest op champion, legendary, or whatever Hi-Rez will come up with next.
when I first read a thread of a guy saying "have you noticed that HiRez release new pay skins for OP champions, in order for you to buy?", I thought he was paranoid. But now I have to re-consider his words...

EvieIV
05-02-2017, 05:35 AM
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/278536245976629249/305442317521911818/unknown.png

barik deserves the nerf. he was acting as unintended and there's nothing to defend from him. he's way too easy to use for what he can do and it was stupid that some tanks that can hit while her shield is up also had the advantadge of having shields uptime. you even said it yourself, with your loadout if not destroyed it could have a downtime of just 2seconds. that's stupid. that should have never been a thing and that's being changed
but favoritism much

lex does need more tweaks tho

Kizaru89
05-02-2017, 06:01 AM
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/278536245976629249/305442317521911818/unknown.png

barik deserves the nerf. he was acting as unintended and there's nothing to defend from him. he's way too easy to use for what he can do and it was stupid that some tanks that can hit while her shield is up also had the advantadge of having shields uptime. you even said it yourself, with your loadout if not destroyed it could have a downtime of just 2seconds. that's stupid. that should have never been a thing and that's being changed
but favoritism much

lex does need more tweaks tho

The barik shield can be placed very often but compared to others it is fixed and protects only frontally so if attached to the side or on two fronts it makes it ineffective. Then without the right legendary card it has only 5000 of life for 4 seconds duration. I can understand the nerf but have to compensate with a lower cd.

Gordre
05-02-2017, 06:19 AM
I don't use shielding-Barik too, but the point on Legendary was to allow multiple playstyle for a champion. Nerfing something good is saying "you just don't have to use it, pick another!", so Legendary point doesn't exist anymore. We already know some champions are used 99% of time with only one card (Netherstep for Androxus, bonus dmg for Lex, maelstorm for Grohk...), so, why bother creating other 2?
You n eed 3 viable way to use a champion, so you can choose the style fits you more. Removing all basic bonus and put them into legendaries is s**t (who said "Cassie"?).


Yeah, that is why I said the legendary should receive a buff in order to compensate for the shield uptime, since he is giving up any other help when going to the shield legendary.

I am sure also that OP characters and crystal skins are not related, since Grover received one when he is being left behind. I bet Barik will be one of the next to receive skin being not overpowered for sure.

EvieIV
05-02-2017, 06:25 AM
The barik shield can be placed very often but compared to others it is fixed and protects only frontally so if attached to the side or on two fronts it makes it ineffective. Then without the right legendary card it has only 5000 of life for 4 seconds duration. I can understand the nerf but have to compensate with a lower cd.

it's justified since barik's competitively too strong while he requires little skill

honestly people who think barik's not op while he's the must-go frontline when makoa gets picked have surely never played in a tournament

Hnusitel
05-02-2017, 06:52 AM
Please stop nerfing Barik. He has been through a lot
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/807678125591873173/DEE9583B70A9703D334CA2950EC13F0A03C39912/

Gordre
05-02-2017, 07:12 AM
Barik was a little more affected with the last nerf than Makoa with Half-Shell nerf. With the loadout cards, Makoa can still respawn the shield earlier than Barik, if it gets destroyed by damage. Also, Makoa almost don't need the shield, it is really the less dependent on shield, which makes me think Makoa should receive an HP nerf to make him less "confortable" pick and requiring players to be more careful when playing him instead of going into any battle knowing he can survive. That way we would have Makoa more like the other FL, instead of remaining so much better than the rest of them.

Peinzius
05-02-2017, 07:35 AM
Remember when Barik was nerfed to have 2900 health and a 14 second cooldown on rocket boots? While I hate this nerf, and Lex's retribution on stealth targets is way more frustrating, a slight nerf, not this crap. I'm just hoping he won't be as bad as he was around OB 38 patch, where he was completely useless until legendaries were introduced.

The half shell nerf was so stupid, was it OP? Yes. Was Barrier Reef the problem? MOST DEFINITELY!!!! SO WHY NERF THE COOLDOWN???

EvieIV
05-02-2017, 07:37 AM
Remember when Barik was nerfed to have 2900 health and a 14 second cooldown on rocket boots? While I hate this nerf, and Lex's retribution on stealth targets is way more frustrating, a slight nerf, not this crap. I'm just hoping he won't be as bad as he was around OB 38 patch, where he was completely useless until legendaries were introduced.

The half shell nerf was so stupid, was it OP? Yes. Was Barrier Reef the problem? MOST DEFINITELY!!!! SO WHY NERF THE COOLDOWN???

the problem is the mechanics

you're not meant to benefit of something you're actually casting aswell as having the timer start

Peinzius
05-02-2017, 07:47 AM
Without the half shell legendary, the cooldown starts after he finishes casting it anyway (as far as I'm aware, I may be wrong), clearly half shell was meant to have the cooldown start straight away. So this nerf makes no sense.

EvieIV
05-02-2017, 08:55 AM
Without the half shell legendary, the cooldown starts after he finishes casting it anyway (as far as I'm aware, I may be wrong), clearly half shell was meant to have the cooldown start straight away. So this nerf makes no sense.

it's not meant to. the difference between channeling and deploying. deploying was already better than channeling because you could shoot while shielding, which means it doesn't make any sense in the sake of balance to have the cd timer be even better

Joquan
05-02-2017, 10:28 AM
it's not meant to. the difference between channeling and deploying. deploying was already better than channeling because you could shoot while shielding, which means it doesn't make any sense in the sake of balance to have the cd timer be even better

Agreed on the half shell nerf. The legendary card added way too much of a power difference between the non-legendary and the legendary version. If they nerfed makoa and left barik in place the half-shell spammers would have simply moved on to fortify barik, possibly having barik replace makoa in terms of first pick tank.

It seems like hi-rez is trying to remove all the cancerous deployable shield spam, and bring them to more of a power level that fernando is currently at, who IMO had the worst team shield out of the 3. Now that they are closer in power to my boy, maybe they will give us some well deserved nerfs to cauterize and wrecker.

SnowzStormz
05-02-2017, 11:46 AM
These nerfs were not needed it wasnt to long ago people didnt use barick and they were buffing him. Looks like he will be back on the shelf.

SnowTamer
05-03-2017, 01:35 AM
Not only does he has a very low health pool compared to the other frontliners, you cant move his shield, he has super low dps, and now they are nerfing him again??? He used to be my frontline main. Maybe not anymore?

rixinthemix
05-03-2017, 03:19 AM
If Half Shell and its interaction with Barrier Reef and Ancient Resolve is the problem, then why not just nerf the two cards or change its interaction with Half Shell?

SirGontar
05-03-2017, 03:57 AM
Not only does he has a very low health pool compared to the other frontliners, you cant move his shield, he has super low dps, and now they are nerfing him again??? He used to be my frontline main. Maybe not anymore?

It's time to start using Inara. :) I will use her instead of Barik.

Valkure
05-03-2017, 03:59 AM
It's time to start using Inara. :) I will use her instead of Barik.
I will not using frontliners at all. And that's what many others will do. Each time one is often picked, HiRez nerfs him/her. If they wanted to encourage tank/support picking (the roles no one wants to fill), they are moving in the totally wrong way.

SirGontar
05-03-2017, 04:09 AM
I will not using frontliners at all. And that's what many others will do. Each time one is often picked, HiRez nerfs him/her. If they wanted to encourage tank/support picking (the roles no one wants to fill), they are moving in the totally wrong way.

I almost always play support or frontline. In my last 30 games there were only 3 with damage dealers (2 of them cause of weekly quest), while 12 with support and 15 with frontline. :) But yup... I think I will play more dd instead of frontline from today for sure. And with support class... maybe will become a dd Grohk and a cripple-sniper Grover only. :D

EvieIV
05-03-2017, 04:12 AM
I will not using frontliners at all. And that's what many others will do. Each time one is often picked, HiRez nerfs him/her. If they wanted to encourage tank/support picking (the roles no one wants to fill), they are moving in the totally wrong way.

tell me youre not that blind/stupid to believe that these simple fixes in their mechanics mean they want frontlines to be inviable

SirGontar
05-03-2017, 04:42 AM
tell me youre not that blind/stupid to believe that these simple fixes in their mechanics mean they want frontlines to be inviable

Makoa's half-shield CD nerf was a simply fix, yup.

Barik's nerf and Willo's Dead Zone skill (100% AOE cauterize for 4+2 sec from the begining of the match with a simply skill) and Scorched Earth legendary (that 100% AOE cauterize now combined with an instant shield destroy) not only "simply fixes" in my opinion.

DoarRaz
05-03-2017, 04:52 AM
Barik and makoa are currently the best tanks(im talking about matches where people have a brain and buy wrecker),so they wanna balance them with the other tanks. If they buffed the weaker tanks,like Torvald,the meta would be turning into double tank composition. I personally always hated double tank meta.
If by "the last tournament" you mean the last week ESL Europe,Barik was picked literally every match.

SirGontar
05-03-2017, 05:05 AM
Barik and makoa are currently the best tanks(im talking about matches where people have a brain and buy wrecker),so they wanna balance them with the other tanks. If they buffed the weaker tanks,like Torvald,the meta would be turning into double tank composition. I personally always hated double tank meta.
If by "the last tournament" you mean the last week ESL Europe,Barik was picked literally every match.

Always there will be best/most used champions at their roles. According to this -false- logic HiRez needs to hard nerf Bomb King, Sha Lin, Mal'Damba, Ying, Drogoz, Lex and maybe Grohk too. After that, when players start using other champions more HiRez should nerf those too... and so on... and so on... untill every champion can't do literally nothing. :D

Valkure
05-03-2017, 05:13 AM
Hey, not to make your statement invalid (I have understood the point), but BK needed a nerf. To lag compensation.

DoarRaz
05-03-2017, 05:19 AM
Guys,im just saying what hi-rez were probably thinking,from what i can tell. Im not a big fan of the nerfs. I main drogoz and BK so those nerfs can affect me too. Im just happy that they didnt buff the other weaker tanks,because i dont want a super stacked double tank + double support meta shit again.

SirGontar
05-03-2017, 05:25 AM
Guys,im just saying what hi-rez were probably thinking,from what i can tell. Im not a big fan of the nerfs. I main drogoz and BK so those nerfs can affect me too. Im just happy that they didnt buff the other weaker tanks,because i dont want a super stacked double tank + double support meta shit again.

I understand that at the first place. :)

EvieIV
05-03-2017, 07:32 AM
Makoa's half-shield CD nerf was a simply fix, yup.

Barik's nerf and Willo's Dead Zone skill (100% AOE cauterize for 4+2 sec from the begining of the match with a simply skill) and Scorched Earth legendary (that 100% AOE cauterize now combined with an instant shield destroy) not only "simply fixes" in my opinion.

how is 50% an instanst shield destroy.

it's just 50% as it says
willo is trash

SirGontar
05-03-2017, 08:48 AM
how is 50% an instanst shield destroy.

it's just 50% as it says
willo is trash

You are right, not instant - but not just 50%... It is 50%/sec - last 4 sec.

M0J0E
05-03-2017, 10:01 AM
tell me youre not that blind/stupid to believe that these simple fixes in their mechanics mean they want frontlines to be inviable

These are not "fixes", they are completely changing the way deployable shields have worked since the very beginning of the game. This is a drastic change that will greatly affect the playability of these frontlines. Combine that with the current strength of wrecker and all the recent champions that have very frontline-unfriendly mechanics... the writing on the wall is clear. You're the one who's blind if you can't read it.

EvieIV
05-03-2017, 10:10 AM
You are right, not instant - but not just 50%... It is 50%/sec - last 4 sec.

it's 50% over 1sec

period

SirGontar
05-03-2017, 10:56 AM
it's 50% over 1sec

period Yup. :) I was wrong, sy.

KeltonWick
05-03-2017, 02:55 PM
The Barik nerf makes him pretty weak. He has been way overnerfed really. There's been a pretty steady long list of nerfs on him if you look through the Changelogs, to the point now where I doubt you will see him very often.

Hopefully they make some changes to make him more viable again.

Sebboosmum
05-03-2017, 03:11 PM
See I get why they would want placed shields to have the same mechanic from a design perspective, but at least they should have lowered the cooldown of his shield. I have no idea who thought it would be a good idea to add 4 seconds to his shield cooldown. It's just baffling.

If they want people to actually play tanks they should stop nerfing them so hard. Barik with such a huge shield cooldown just lacks the sustain and utility that got him back into the meta in the first place.
There really shouldn't be a tank in the game that can not solotank.

xPurplexx
05-03-2017, 07:57 PM
Honestly, he wasn't really that strong. I have no idea why people tier him at least A consistently, from playing loads of Barik matches myself. He doesn't feel strong at all, because his turrets do fairly little damage if the enemy team is actually paying attention to the fact that they exist, his shield has a pretty long cooldown (and did BEFORE the nerf it was hit with yesterday... -_-), and he only has 3400 max health, which is a whole thousand below Ruckus. Sure his Rocket Boots give him the ability to reposition to good effect and he's outstanding about objective time and getting consistent elims, but it's definitely not enough to make him strong. He's really not that good, and honestly he actually sort of sucks right now in my opinion. Yet again, most frontlines aren't that good at the moment with all the insane tank-shred some champions have...

Kerhann
05-04-2017, 11:00 AM
The Barik nerf makes him pretty weak. He has been way overnerfed really. There's been a pretty steady long list of nerfs on him if you look through the Changelogs, to the point now where I doubt you will see him very often.

Hopefully they make some changes to make him more viable again.


Honestly, he wasn't really that strong. I have no idea why people tier him at least A consistently, from playing loads of Barik matches myself. He doesn't feel strong at all, because his turrets do fairly little damage if the enemy team is actually paying attention to the fact that they exist, his shield has a pretty long cooldown (and did BEFORE the nerf it was hit with yesterday... -_-), and he only has 3400 max health, which is a whole thousand below Ruckus. Sure his Rocket Boots give him the ability to reposition to good effect and he's outstanding about objective time and getting consistent elims, but it's definitely not enough to make him strong. He's really not that good, and honestly he actually sort of sucks right now in my opinion. Yet again, most frontlines aren't that good at the moment with all the insane tank-shred some champions have...

I totally agree.

M0J0E
05-05-2017, 10:42 AM
So I've just learned that Willo's legendary card doesn't just deal 50% of the shield's max health over 1 second, it actually continues to take effect and deals 100% of the shield's max health over 2 seconds. And this champion is introduced in the same patch that nerfs Barik and Makoa.

What a fucking joke. Just delete frontlines from the game already, we all know that's where this is heading.

Chavchava
05-05-2017, 07:19 PM
It didn't take a genius to predict how this patch was gonna hurt Barik, but I held judgement until I gave him a chance. Now that I have, I see that I underestimated how badly he was nerfed.

Not only was his shield nerfed, but Willo is his natural predator. Barik wants to set up his base, while Willo jsut laughs at him, then throws out her seedlings. Even if Barik is able to dodge them, he can say goodbye to his turrets (even spreading out your turrets often isn't enough). Then of course there's her Dead Zone...

Makoa got nerfed this patch too, but he is still going to come out ahead, as he is now far and away the best front line.

I understand it's a hugely complex issue (Im not being sarcastic there... it really is complicated), but nerfing tanks to uselessness is not the answer. Already few enough people willing to play them, much less willing to put in the time to get any good with them. Don't discourage people from playing them even more.

JuriPL
05-06-2017, 03:31 AM
There is pretty much no point picking barik atm if you are not last pick and you know they will not get willo. Otherwise you can just go deserter or afk.

To be honest after this shielding change his barricade has way too much cooldown, you sometimes need to wait 10-11 seconds, this is way too much time, especially that barik has ONLY 3400 hp.