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View Full Version : Anyone can challenge Makoa — fix it for God's sake!



Thales3002
03-26-2017, 01:53 PM
I decided to make this thread because apparently people are worried only about Lex and completely ignored nonsense nerfs like this one.

Well, Makoa's ultimate has been nerfed and is no longer CC immune, which basically means it's pretty much useless, it doesn't even feel like a ultimate anymore. It was already one of the easiest ultimates to escape due to it being melee, now it's completely laughable, whenever I use my ult I just get stunlocked, rooted, disarmed or throwed away. Pip once simply ulted after I used Ancient Rage and the 9800 HP angry and mighty Makoa became a mere 1500 HP inoffensive chicken... It's ridiculous! Just remove his ult already, it's almost useless now.

Makoa's ult wasn't even OP in first place, I really don't understand this nerf. You can easily avoid his attacks or block them with shields (specially Fernando's), and percentage based damage and focus fire can take him down pretty fast, since he becomes melee and unable to use his shield. If you want to nerf Makoa, slightly nerf the damage or hook, taking away his ultimate just don't make any sense at all.

Now anyone can challenge Makoa with ease, just bring CC immunity back and fix this shit already! Most players think this nerf is unreasonable, so please listen to us and stop making non-OP things useless (or extremely OP, in some cases)

PS: Before you say "hurr durr just buy resilience bro", which other ultimates on this game need items to effective? That's right... None! So why should Makoa be the only one to need to use Nimble and abdicate Haven or Blast Shields to buy Resilience, in order to simply have a useful ultimate?

TL;DR: Hi-Rez fucked up Makoa's ult by removing its CC immunity, now it's extremely easy to challenge him and take him down, most players agree that it should be added back so Makoa can return to have a useful ultimate.

TsPixie
03-26-2017, 01:57 PM
Makoa is a Flank / Tank.
He plays amazingly as a front line harrasser and is able to take out most of the healers.
I'd like 2 cards added called "Grape Shot" and "Unload"
- Grape Shot changes his Cannon to a sort of Close to Mid Range Shot gun... Upgradding the card will increase the pellets fired
- Unload will Fire all the remaining Shots at 1s after hooking a target (making the squishier targets makoa should be targeting faster to deal with) (Unload will work better as a legendary)

Z1R0
03-26-2017, 02:04 PM
I agree. this nerf is stupid. you hardly see now makoa ulti till the end

EpplZ
03-26-2017, 02:36 PM
shhhhhh you 'll awaken the brownnosed squad!!!!

BurmaJones
03-26-2017, 02:39 PM
Makoa is still quite powerful, quit crying. If you think he needs a life reset, 10k hp, cc immunity and a high damage huge arc melee attack for his ult to be merely useful, you're a noob and a retard.

EpplZ
03-26-2017, 02:45 PM
Here it goes... I told you!

Branzer
03-26-2017, 02:46 PM
To be fair the CC immunity removal was a bit overkill. Don't play the champ but I can see how this disadvantages him.

ThatOthell159
03-26-2017, 02:50 PM
Way too overkill, now Makoa's ult is nothing but a quick burst of healing.

BurmaJones
03-26-2017, 02:50 PM
You think Sha Lin is balanced, Lex is op and Makoa's ult is useless. Your opinion on anything about balance is honestly a fucking joke.

ThatOthell159
03-26-2017, 02:52 PM
You think Sha Lin is balanced, Lex is op and Makoa's ult is useless. Your opinion on anything about balance is honestly a fucking joke.

???????????????

EpplZ
03-26-2017, 02:53 PM
Think he was talking to me buddy :)

1 : Shalin is not OP in my book, I told and explained why, I agree he's strong and need a slight nerf tho
2 : Lex is also not OP, I explained why and even voted "not OP but need a rework", and again, I explained why with some text blocks
3 : Yeah makoa's ult is now useless and I explained why I think so AND that the nerf he needed wasnt that one in several threads, which you replied by "nah, he's op, gtfo".

So yeah, I agree I'm a nobody average player and I'm pretty sure my voice doesnt count, but still, coming from murica the land of free speach, you might want to not deny me that right.

Have a good day, and be gentle on the booze

BurmaJones
03-26-2017, 03:01 PM
His ult is so useless he's still picked in pro games and they still get use from his ult.

It's almost like his ult is good if you don't use it for 1v5s like a retard.

EpplZ
03-26-2017, 03:08 PM
I think you suffer from coprolalia bro, but heh, stay in your forum circle jerk, it is not like I care mucho about you neither

BurmaJones
03-26-2017, 03:28 PM
I can tell you're one of those noobs who sees their team is dead so you activate Makoa's ult to try and 1v5 for an objective cap or to win OT, so you're all salty that the nerf makes that nub ult usage a guaranteed fail now.

EpplZ
03-26-2017, 03:33 PM
I can tell I can rekt you anyday also, but what's the point about... the actual point?

BurmaJones
03-26-2017, 03:39 PM
What a quip. For real though, can you make a legitimate argument for how his ult isn't even useful just because it lost cc immunity?

Brandonetwaru
03-26-2017, 03:45 PM
they are mad for nerfing maka ult no sence no brains they need to go and see some doctors that will take care of them...

EpplZ
03-26-2017, 03:47 PM
What a quip. For real though, can you make a legitimate argument for how his ult isn't even useful just because it lost cc immunity?

Because it's hard countered by any lucky stun / cripple and doesnt make makoa (non ulting) less powerfull at all? But do we really have to go through this again? I'm too lazy to link you to the actual argument you simply "nah'ed" for now, I'll go for the link, would be time consuming but maybe less than typing it all over again.

BurmaJones
03-26-2017, 04:17 PM
It's not hard countered by stuns. He's still really hard to kill in a team fight. The only part of his ult that got hard countered was being able to solo multiple enemies.

If you have support, the enemy can't just dump all their cc on you or they will get shredded by your team.

EpplZ
03-26-2017, 04:30 PM
I root makoa for dinner everyday now

Thales3002
03-26-2017, 04:32 PM
Makoa is still quite powerful, quit crying. If you think he needs a life reset, 10k hp, cc immunity and a high damage huge arc melee attack for his ult to be merely useful, you're a noob and a retard.

I think it's pretty interesting your only argument in this thread is "he's often picked in pro games" and I'm the one who's retard... That's actually an argument AGAINST this nerf, because it proves that, unlike Drogoz, almost no one picks him because of his ultimate, but because of his hook.

Yes, Makoa is still strong, but his ultimate is now hard countered by literally any character that has CC, now people just laugh when they hear "you challenge Makoa?".

EpplZ
03-26-2017, 04:41 PM
"you challenge mako...." damba cumstun on your face you big tortoise!

BurmaJones
03-26-2017, 04:44 PM
You guys realize he can hook during ult? You realize Makoa also has a team? It's not like you're the only cc target. Even if you are, your team would handily win because the enemy would be stupidly wasting all their resources on a 10k hp target while all your support and dps is left alone.

JebacVikice
03-26-2017, 04:57 PM
Makoa is still quite powerful, quit crying. If you think he needs a life reset, 10k hp, cc immunity and a high damage huge arc melee attack for his ult to be merely useful, you're a noob and a retard.

Lol child you need to calm your self. No need for a tantrum just because people are providing feedback.

That being said, it is strange how something like you has 1270 posts and is still not banned from this place.

I do see you cry and moan every time someone points out some problems in the game. Shill or just incompetent mods allowing that kind of behavior?

BurmaJones
03-26-2017, 05:05 PM
The irony of what you said, your whole post history being obvious unfunny troll garbage. Of course you have no response to the topic.

Thales3002
03-26-2017, 05:21 PM
Yes, he can hook... once.

Makoa's ult is used when you're outnumbered and dying, it makes you resist longer (there's a reason why he says "I will not be stopped!") so your teammates can join the fight after it, and forces people away from the point/payload for a moment. You would hardly solo kill everyone (or even survive, depending on how many people are confronting you)

Makoa's ult already have a lot of counters:

1 - Staying away from him
2 - Putting up shields
3 - Dragon's Fury
4 - Tyra's molotov
5 - Focus fire

Adding CC to that list makes the ultimate almost useless because CC is very effective, a plenty of characters have it and can use it often, unlike ultimates or focus fire, that happen way less often and/or easily.

Makoa's ult was perfectly fine and didn't need any nerfs. I don't know why you insist on this so much, since no one ever complained about his ult being OP.

BurmaJones
03-26-2017, 05:32 PM
"Staying away from him" isn't a counter to his ult, that's called conceding defeat, which was the only realistic strategy because if you fought him you'd just die unless it was a literal 1v5 and his teammates weren't even spawned yet.

"Putting up shields" might keep him from securing more kills but it does nothing to actually kill him or counter his ability to simple stay alive on his own long enough to ensure his team gets another chance if not outright win an engagement.

"Dragon's Fury" is a good counter, realistically the only one that existed pre-nerf.

"Tyra's molotov" wasn't a counter just because it dealt %hp damage. It's a counter post-nerf because her teammates, if they have cc, might be able to make him eat more damage from it instead of being able to safely walk out like he could pre-nerf.

"Focus fire" only works in the sense that "Staying away from him" works: you would need a literal 1v5 to safely kill him and also count on his team not being spawned and returning to the fight yet.


Makoa's ult was perfectly fine

Name one other ultimate in the game that allows someone to win when they're outnumbered and dying.

M0J0E
03-26-2017, 06:23 PM
Making CC immunity less common is good for the game, it will teach players to actually use their CC abilities and/or save them for the proper situations, like an ulting Makoa. It still makes him tanky and dangerous, he's just not as unstoppable as he once was.

EpplZ
03-26-2017, 07:04 PM
Making CC immunity less common is good for the game, it will teach players to actually use their CC abilities and/or save them for the proper situations, like an ulting Makoa. It still makes him tanky and dangerous, he's just not as unstoppable as he once was.

Then make "CC" less comon also... Pip can slow every 4 seconds, grover can root every 6 or 7 iirc... since when CC can be compared to any "ult", I would be ok if ult didnt exist tho

Drathahasu
03-26-2017, 11:54 PM
Hi-Rez should make up their mind - are ultimates CC immune or not?
Because it's kind of funny that some are (Androxus for example) and some are not (Buck, Makoa).

Tangtaizong
03-27-2017, 01:57 AM
Or maybe pick Resilience and have Grover or Mal'damba or both in your team

BurmaJones
03-27-2017, 08:10 AM
"Staying away from him" isn't a counter to his ult, that's called conceding defeat, which was the only realistic strategy because if you fought him you'd just die unless it was a literal 1v5 and his teammates weren't even spawned yet.

"Putting up shields" might keep him from securing more kills but it does nothing to actually kill him or counter his ability to simple stay alive on his own long enough to ensure his team gets another chance if not outright win an engagement.

"Dragon's Fury" is a good counter, realistically the only one that existed pre-nerf.

"Tyra's molotov" wasn't a counter just because it dealt %hp damage. It's a counter post-nerf because her teammates, if they have cc, might be able to make him eat more damage from it instead of being able to safely walk out like he could pre-nerf.

"Focus fire" only works in the sense that "Staying away from him" works: you would need a literal 1v5 to safely kill him and also count on his team not being spawned and returning to the fight yet.



Name one other ultimate in the game that allows someone to win when they're outnumbered and dying.

Of course the people crying about Makoa are gonna keep dodging this.

TheMikirog
03-27-2017, 11:57 AM
People cry about Makoa's nerf and nobody is going to talk how everybody forced you NOT to play Inara, because "she's bad and period"? What weird dimension I crossed in my sleep?

OzzyOzzy
03-27-2017, 12:07 PM
A simple "Makoa's Ult has LV 3 Resilience" Is good enough to get his cred back to "not garbage" as everyone is apparently believing.

I'm with BurmaJones on this one. Makoa is still a MENACE with his ult, especially with teams that DON'T HAVE CC ATTACKS. This whole thread is thinking that every champion has a CC attack, when in reality, around a 1/3 of the roster has it. Ghrok, Kinessa, Torvald, Mal, Pip, Burger King, Sha Lin, Buck, and maybe Cassie, Grover and Evie have CC.

This is 8 (11, if we add the character's proper skill/legendary implication to it) out of 24 champions. And counting.

Only buff i would accept on him is a resilience slapped on to his ult, but nothing more. Heck, putting his CC immunity on his 1500HP Legendary would also suffice! HELL, IT WOULD MAKE THAT CARD WORTH IT.

Makoa is still a threat. Git gud with him.

Branzer
03-27-2017, 12:38 PM
It's not a case of "get gud". Makoa was taken down easy pre-nerf if whole team focused him. Matter of seconds really. Now with CC immunity gone? Ultimate will serve simply as avoiding death when focused hard. No guarantee you will live ofc. But drogoz ultimate in your face is guaranteed death. Bring you down below 65% health, guaranteed death with Lex etc. etc.

BurmaJones
03-27-2017, 01:16 PM
Lmao, who else has an ult that requires a 1v5 to prevent a lost fight? That's not balance. I've addressed his ult more comprehensively in a post above if you care to respond to that.

RogueRifler
03-27-2017, 01:39 PM
He didn't 1v5, ever. That's hyperbole.

The issue is his ult forces him to melee. The CC immunity allowed him to punish players with no escape. If the other players had an escape they could easily kite his ultimate. Now any slow / stun allows players to get out of his range even when they don't have an escape. To those saying buy resilience 3, name one other ult that requires 1200 credits to be effective. Furthermore there are a good number of sources of CC that have a minimum duration or aren't even affected by resilience (crippling throw, ripened gourd, evil mojo, fear, kinessa's mines, warder's field). If one of those abilities is available it hard counters his ultimate.

BurmaJones
03-27-2017, 01:50 PM
Reply to my full post above. Thanks.

SnakeNox
03-27-2017, 02:16 PM
I do not get it. I have played Makoa a ton after the nerf, and his Ult is still one of the most powerful ones. Instant health refill on a Tank? Yes please. 5000-something extra health on top of that? Yes Please.

People quickly forget that while you're trying to burn down Makoas 10 000 HP, his entire team is shooting back at you.
The enemy team has to spend additional time on Makoa (even after taking him out the normal way, then BOOM Ancient Makoa appears) and during that time, the enemy team is gunning you down.

That is his job as a Tank.

To make the enemy team focus him, so that Makoas team can kill them. Makoa is not supposed to win fights alone. He is only dangerous if people lets him be, AKA not use CC on him. And all that time takes away from killing the DAMAGE dealers and FLANKERS who are actually murdering your entire team.

Makoas Ult is still strong. Maybe one of the strongest ones in the game still. He is constantly picked in Pro games, and you should take that into perspective when complaining that Makoa is useless.

M0J0E
03-27-2017, 02:42 PM
Name one other ultimate in the game that allows someone to win when they're outnumbered and dying.
Pip can turn them to chickens and kill them
Torvald can blow them away to stall for teammates, or blow them off the map for kills
Fernando can go immortal and deal damage at the same time
Grover can rapidly heal to stall for teammates
Evie can ice storm then use literally any of her abilities
Mal'damba can fear everyone then fight back or slither away

I understand you're trying to make a point but don't say foolish things. It's almost like you're trying to argue that Makoa's ult is the best in the entire game (or was before the nerf).

BurmaJones
03-27-2017, 03:07 PM
Pip can turn them to chickens and kill them
Torvald can blow them away to stall for teammates, or blow them off the map for kills
Fernando can go immortal and deal damage at the same time
Grover can rapidly heal to stall for teammates
Evie can ice storm then use literally any of her abilities
Mal'damba can fear everyone then fight back or slither away

I understand you're trying to make a point but don't say foolish things. It's almost like you're trying to argue that Makoa's ult is the best in the entire game (or was before the nerf).Everything you listed is pretty stupid, to be honest.


Pip isn't going to wipe multiple people solo if he's almost dead. It takes 3 shots of his clip of 6 to kill one person, not to mention his rate of fire wouldn't allow him to kill everyone before the ult ends.

Torvald needs specific maps and locations to actually kill with his ult, not to mention people with mobility can simply dash out of it. Or he can be cc'd or killed during it because he has normal hp when he ults.

Fernando's ult sucks when he's by himself, it's merely a stall and doesn't recover any of his hp, not to mention his damage is bad.

Grover's ult is totally countered by cauterize. And stall=/=win when outnumbered and dying.

Evie's ice storm deals bad damage and would never allow her to get away with killing multiple enemies in the same engagement with her hp and rate of fire.

Mal'Damba has no where near the damage and rate of fire needed to kill more than one person inside his ult.

You aren't even close to countering my point or bringing up a legitimate example of an ult that allows you to win when outnumbered and dying (all of yours were at best extreme reaches). Try again.

M0J0E
03-27-2017, 03:52 PM
I called your statement foolish because you were essentially saying "Name one other ult that can turn a losing situation into a winning one" when there are plenty of examples just off the top of my head.

And while we're at it, how much is "outnumbered" and how much is "dying"? Because winning a 1v2 when you're at 50% and they're both at 60% is certainly doable with any of the ults I listed (maybe not Grover but at least he can stall for a bit and hope help arrives). I hope you're not arguing that Makoa pre-nerf could literally wade into a 1v5, pop ult and win that fight, because no one's ult by themselves will let you do that.

BurmaJones
03-27-2017, 04:40 PM
Makoa could be literally a hit from dying and have a few enemies on him and swing that fight on his own because of the damage, cc immunity and massive hp spike. That's far beyond what most ultimates in the game can do. None of the ones you listed hold a candle to pre-nerf Makoa ult in the sense of turning a lost fight.

I wasn't asking for nerfs to Makoa's ult, I didn't think of nerfing him in terms of his ult needing it, I doubt much of anyone thought that besides Hi Rez. But after him losing cc immunity, tons of people came out clamoring that his ult was rendered useless, which is a joke.

I'm mostly arguing that people are exaggerating how nerfed his ult is, and are ignoring how powerful it really was. I think it was arguably the best ult in the game because it wasn't in any real way counterable or situational. It's still plenty strong with 10k hp, the hp reset and his damage. He doesn't need cc immunity on it to be good or useful, which is what everyone crying about the nerf is arguing.

Time for a humblebrag to demonstrate that Makoa's strong as hell and his ult is still good. I got Top Play with his ult btw.

And I don't wanna hear shit about the enemy team being bad, everyone but their Makoa had good stats and we barely won 4/3.
http://i.imgur.com/7fXHVkb.jpg

Nudgarrobot
03-27-2017, 10:00 PM
Burma even though I agree with you your argument here doesn't really help your case, or at least the screenshot doesn't.
Your team has high CC characters. Their team doesn't, the only cc they have is makoa hook and Evie ult.

In the case of your screenshot the makoa who could ult against a team with negligable CC won over the Makoa who could ult into anything from hook to Sha Lin stun to grumpy bomb to poppy bomb and so forth.

I don't think the nerf was unjustified or a bad thing, but I also can't say this screenshot really counts as admissible evidence.

BurmaJones
03-27-2017, 10:15 PM
They didn't lose because of the difference in cc on each team and the Makoa ult being crowd controllable now, it was more me and the Pip playing very well and their Makoa standing on the point before clearing enemies first. I guess you'll have to take my word for it.

In any case, just pretend the screen shot doesn't exist. My argument still stands. Life reset, 10,000 hp spike and high damage melee attack is a godly ult. If you don't use it solo it'll still do work. Next time I have to gap fill as a tank I'll grab Makoa and wreck noobs yet again because he and his ult are still god tier.

LookGooD
03-28-2017, 12:24 AM
They should bring back the CC immune. Frontline ultimates should be POWERFUL.

Hopeasusi
03-28-2017, 12:32 AM
Nerfing Makoa's ultimate was the wrong way to nerf him.

I never felt that the ulti was OP in anyway.
It's the hook, that makes him so good. Too much range+utility. Same as road hogs in that other game.

RogueRifler
03-28-2017, 01:13 AM
When you play Mal Damba and your gourd (ripened gourd) single handedly hard counters a Makoa ultimate, something is very wrong. If he shouldn't have CC immunity, give him hook resets or an empowered cannon. It's just a silly joke right now. It's like turning him into a 10k hp chicken as an ultimate against any intelligent player.


"Staying away from him" isn't a counter to his ult, that's called conceding defeat, which was the only realistic strategy because if you fought him you'd just die unless it was a literal 1v5 and his teammates weren't even spawned yet.

"Putting up shields" might keep him from securing more kills but it does nothing to actually kill him or counter his ability to simple stay alive on his own long enough to ensure his team gets another chance if not outright win an engagement.

"Dragon's Fury" is a good counter, realistically the only one that existed pre-nerf.

"Tyra's molotov" wasn't a counter just because it dealt %hp damage. It's a counter post-nerf because her teammates, if they have cc, might be able to make him eat more damage from it instead of being able to safely walk out like he could pre-nerf.

"Focus fire" only works in the sense that "Staying away from him" works: you would need a literal 1v5 to safely kill him and also count on his team not being spawned and returning to the fight yet.



Name one other ultimate in the game that allows someone to win when they're outnumbered and dying.

Fernando - You're out numbered and dying? Ult and you're CC immune, unkillable, can fire your weapon, and your teammates can win fights.

Torvald - You're out numbered lost your shield and it's overtime? Ult == win.

Barik - You're out numbered and dying? Here's a 20k shield while you heal up with healing stations. This is the weakest of all of the examples, but it allows you to still hold an area for a good number of seconds in a safe manner.

The trend is that Front Liner ultimates seem to be about holding an area and punishing those that don't concede ground. Makoa's pre ob46 ultimate fit that bill pretty well. It definitely had a lower skill floor then the above listed ultimates. Without CC immunity Makoa cannot hold an area and effectively punish players that don't concede ground. He's just a fat slab of meat being slapped around.

A different change might have been to prevent him from shell spinning in his ultimate. It fits the theme (angry turtle isn't going to run away), and it prevents chasing with the ult. His ultimate in that case would actually be usable.

BurmaJones
03-28-2017, 08:09 AM
Am I in the twilight zone? People really think resetting your health bar and spiking to 10k hp is shit?

I'll reply more comprehensively to your straw-grasping list of ults in a bit. Phone and such.

SnakeNox
03-28-2017, 08:30 AM
Am I in the twilight zone? People really think resetting your health bar and spiking to 10k hp is shit?

I'll reply more comprehensively to your straw-grasping list of ults in a bit. Phone and such.

I've been doing great with Makoas Ult. Its better than Inara, Barik and wven fernando, since the damage potential is there and health refill

BurmaJones
03-28-2017, 08:36 AM
Fernando - You're out numbered and dying? Ult and you're CC immune, unkillable, can fire your weapon, and your teammates can win fights.You don't get a health refill or spike to 10k hp, you don't get a boosted melee attack, and as you said, your TEAMMATES can win fights. Makoa's prenerf ult did fine against multiple enemies without needing teammates to win him fights. Not even comparable.


Torvald - You're out numbered lost your shield and it's overtime? Ult == win. Almost every champ in the game can dash out of it, and it doesn't make Torvald 10k hp and cc immune. Makoa's ult also doesn't require OT or a special spot on a particular map to have win or kill potential. Not even comparable.


Barik - You're out numbered and dying? Here's a 20k shield while you heal up with healing stations. This is the weakest of all of the examples, but it allows you to still hold an area for a good number of seconds in a safe manner.Again, no health spike, and anyone can walk in the shield and kill Barik, ending his ult prematurely. If he's almost dead and activates it, it's literally a waste. Makoa can be a hit from dying and spike to 10k hp suddenly. Not even comparable.

None of the ones you listed are even close in value to Makoa's prenerf ult. Not by a long shot. Hell, even postnerf Makoa's got a super strong ult. You seriously undervalue the ability to keep yourself alive. Even without cc immunity, 10k hp is a lot to cut down and is at minimum enough to guarantee your own survival.

Yeah it's obviously weaker without the cc immunity, but now you have to use the ult more intelligently as opposed to before where you really could drop it in a 1v5 to get out and survive, or in a 1v3 to win a fight.

The nerf was fine. Makoa is fine. His ult is fine. If you really get no value out of it somehow you need to learn to play with his ult better.

Insizer
03-28-2017, 09:05 AM
Imo, if they want to make him vulnerable to CC they should give him some innate resilience.

RogueRifler
03-28-2017, 09:42 AM
You don't get a health refill or spike to 10k hp, you don't get a boosted melee attack, and as you said, your TEAMMATES can win fights. Makoa's prenerf ult did fine against multiple enemies without needing teammates to win him fights. Not even comparable.


Uncounterable ultimate that guarantees point presence and possibly the outcome of a fur ball even when out numbered. It also saves teammates. I would always want a Nando ult over Makoa, any day.



Almost every champ in the game can dash out of it, and it doesn't make Torvald 10k hp and cc immune. Makoa's ult also doesn't require OT or a special spot on a particular map to have win or kill potential. Not even comparable.


While there is a specific time and place for it, this ultimate has so much more impact. While it is up, the other team can't engage from the hazard zone side relative to point. Even if you don't use it the other team can't risk it. Second, you literally press a button and win contested points and pushes. It doesn't matter if it's 1v5, if overtime has ticked and you ult point you win point. You can't be bursted down after it's been cast, you just win.




Again, no health spike, and anyone can walk in the shield and kill Barik, ending his ult prematurely. If he's almost dead and activates it, it's literally a waste. Makoa can be a hit from dying and spike to 10k hp suddenly. Not even comparable.


How is a 20k hp shield not a comparable hp spike? If you are being pressured from range this ult literally forces players to do nothing or attempt to fight you inside the dome. Even if they do that you can easily shield dance. I've literally held carts and points 1v5 with this.





None of the ones you listed are even close in value to Makoa's prenerf ult. Not by a long shot. Hell, even postnerf Makoa's got a super strong ult. You seriously undervalue the ability to keep yourself alive. Even without cc immunity, 10k hp is a lot to cut down and is at minimum enough to guarantee your own survival.

Yeah it's obviously weaker without the cc immunity, but now you have to use the ult more intelligently as opposed to before where you really could drop it in a 1v5 to get out and survive, or in a 1v3 to win a fight.

The nerf was fine. Makoa is fine. His ult is fine. If you really get no value out of it somehow you need to learn to play with his ult better.

Recently I've played less FL because I like the designs of all the other champions, supports included, so much more (except Ying, afk trash healer). However, I've played against a ton of Makoas, and when you can easily 1v1 Makoa in his ultimate as Damba, it's dumb (not even using Fear). When you hard counter Makoa's ultimate with Pip's, which you build 2-3x faster without moral boost, it's dumb. When you can keep a Makoa from getting any value using rclick as Grover, it's dumb. When you can do 5k damage to an ulting Makoa as Cassie with a single combo, 5k damage in 1.5s, it's just silly.

The lack of CC immunity is a huge blow to his ultimate, which wasn't the problem. Makoa will still be a top picked FL because his hook is still broken. He still needs an adjustment. This change didn't affect that. All it did was take a big ultimate with a long build up and made it mostly harmless. That's why it is a bad change.

M0J0E
03-28-2017, 09:48 AM
LOL don't use Barik as an example of a good ult please...

RogueRifler
03-28-2017, 09:55 AM
LOL don't use Barik as an example of a good ult please...

I use it as an example because I have won games single handedly with it. It's actually decent if you use it well.

SnakeNox
03-28-2017, 11:41 AM
I use it as an example because I have won games single handedly with it. It's actually decent if you use it well.

Just like Makoas :cool:

edit: seriously, getting a health reset and 10 000 HP to defend the point with is so satisfying. Sure, I might get slowed sometimes, but They dont always have their cooldowns ready for that. And if someone gets away, I hook another one in, or Shell them. Or I just use it to get a free escape just for the full health benefit. Its an amazing ult and I love it still. I like Makoa more now, because you actually have to think about how to use your ult. Before, not at all. Now? A bit.

RogueRifler
03-28-2017, 12:36 PM
Just like Makoas :cool:

edit: seriously, getting a health reset and 10 000 HP to defend the point with is so satisfying. Sure, I might get slowed sometimes, but They dont always have their cooldowns ready for that. And if someone gets away, I hook another one in, or Shell them. Or I just use it to get a free escape just for the full health benefit. Its an amazing ult and I love it still. I like Makoa more now, because you actually have to think about how to use your ult. Before, not at all. Now? A bit.

Makoa's ult doesn't protect teammates, it doesn't lock down an area of the map with a defensive effect. It gives him 10k hp, forces him to melee, and let's him fire 25% faster. If you are using Makoa's ult to live and flee, that's a terrible trade. All other FL ults are better than that. If you are using it to try and secure 1 kill, that's a bad trade even if you succeed given it's CD.

For those that think 10k hp is crazy, the effective hp that Inara can have with the right legendaries and cards is over 15k. (70% dr with 5.1k base). Inara is not picked at all and I personally find the wall legendary better. Why? Because, her damage isn't much of a threat and she can't really punish those that are ignoring her. This is worse for Makoa because he is locked into using his anchor. So slows even prevent him from doing damage.

BurmaJones
03-28-2017, 12:48 PM
Do you think his ult can only be used if he's by himself? Like it's impossible he can use it mid team fight for a huge health swing and work with his team? It seems like you have this assumption his ult is useless unless he can use it on his own and get some huge impact from it.

RogueRifler
03-28-2017, 12:54 PM
Do you think his ult can only be used if he's by himself? Like it's impossible he can use it mid team fight for a huge health swing and work with his team? It seems like you have this assumption his ult is useless unless he can use it on his own and get some huge impact from it.

He can use it for a health swing in the special circumstance that he's getting focused for some reason. If the other team is focusing a FL they're doing it wrong and I guess his ult can punish that. My point has always been that his ult has usually been used to punish players who burned their mobility or as area denial. The area denial and punish requires him to do damage and maintain position. That goes out the window without CC immunity.

BurmaJones
03-28-2017, 01:06 PM
Again, if he's got teammates with him that's all still true. If they ignore him to deal with his team, he can freely melee people to death or hook them. If they focus him his team cleans up.

If he's trying to hold an area, he can still do that with 10k hp and his damage. He doesn't need cc immunity to hold a point. If enemies need to cap something and he's there, they still have to deal with

EDIT: I'd also like to point out you say his ult is useless unless people focus him. You've also said in earlier posts that his ult was counterable before by focusing him down. So which is it? He shouldn't be focused at all or focusing him is a counter? Or are you implying there's constant cc available to stop him and his team from doing anything at all so post nerf focusing him is useless?

RogueRifler
03-28-2017, 01:26 PM
Again, if he's got teammates with him that's all still true. If they ignore him to deal with his team, he can freely melee people to death or hook them. If they focus him his team cleans up.

If he's trying to hold an area, he can still do that with 10k hp and his damage. He doesn't need cc immunity to hold a point. If enemies need to cap something and he's there, they still have to deal with

EDIT: I'd also like to point out you say his ult is useless unless people focus him. You've also said in earlier posts that his ult was counterable before by focusing him down. So which is it? He shouldn't be focused at all or focusing him is a counter?

He can't hold an area without CC immunity. All it takes is knock back and he is out of the area he is trying to hold. If he is stunned or slowed he cannot punish people in the area that he is trying to hold. Melee doesn't punish if he is not in range, hook doesn't punish if he is stunned. This isn't theoretical, I've played a good number of matches against Makoa since ob46 and it's easy to juggle his ult during a team fight. Throw a gourd on him, disengage him, whatever, then go back to what you were doing while he trudges back to the fight.

As to the edit, they're two different scenarios. Before you were asserting that he could 1v5, in that scenario pre ob46 you could burst him down ez. The other scenario is in a 5v5 and you're saying that he could use his ult for a health swing. For that health swing to be meaningful Makoa needs to have taken a good amount of damage. In a 5v5 though you shouldn't be focusing a tank, you focus heals and dps. That's why I don't think that usage circumstance shows up much. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

BurmaJones
03-28-2017, 02:39 PM
I know they're two different scenarios. You said prenerf ult you could just focus him easily. You can't just have it both ways. Either he was focusable prenerf or he wasn't outside of a 1v5 or similar scenario. In a full teamfight he doesn't go from being powerful and uncounterable to useless just because of cc immunity being gone. That's a load of crap and you know it.

As for your own matches, there's tons in your recent history with a Makoa on both teams. His ult can't be that bad. He's even won many of the games where he was the only Makoa in the game, even being against cc.

You're really exaggerating and being disingenuous about his ult postnerf.

SnakeNox
03-28-2017, 02:50 PM
Makoa's ult doesn't protect teammates, it doesn't lock down an area of the map with a defensive effect.

Yes it does. If the enemy shoots him, they dont shoot his allies. If they shoot his allies, he will do damage. Makoa has 2 tools to get close to enemies too. A Hook and a Shell. Makoa use his Ult close to an enemy. He gets away, Makoa hooks, he gets away again, Makoa shells to him. It might take some actual planning to use his Ult (unlike every other ult in the game, appearantly), but its still just as effective in the right circumstances. You just have to play smarter.

Thales3002
03-28-2017, 08:30 PM
You guys talk like he becomes completely invincible while Ancient Rage. As I said before, there's a lot of counters to his ultimate:

1. Keep distance - Seriously, he's meele so he cannot do much if you're not in range. Ok, he can hook you, but there will be no bonus damage and you can still escape even after it, since he doesn't deal too much damage on his ultimate. Also, Fernando's shield is just excellent for blocking all his attacks.

2. Shoot him down - Duh... He doesn't become immortal in his ultimate, so just shoot him! Champions like Kinessa can take him down on his ult extremely quickly because her shots deal huge damage and are very accurate. And no, a Makoa NEVER would win a 1v5 or 1v4 situation by using his ult, he would just delay his death by a few seconds, I wonder if you're playing the same game as me in order to say such absurdity.

3. Use your ultimates - Makoa is not the only one with an ultimate. A lot of ultimates can counter pretty hardly Makoa's Ancient Rage. The most obvious one is Drogoz's, that's an OHKO. But also, Grover can outheal him, Fernando can make everyone immortal, Ruckus can almost solo kill him with Hexafire combo'd with his shields, Kinessa can also almost solo kill him with Headhunter, Tyra can hurt him really bad with her ult as well, Maeve can make him blind, Lex can execute him (most of the time Makoa will go under 65% HP during his ultimate), etc. It's important to add that most of these ults generally charges faster than Makoa's.

What Hi-Rez is doing is adding an unnecessary extra counter to this list: Crowd Control. But the problem is that A LOT of champions have it and can use it often. So now here's the new counter that's making it extremely rare to see a Makoa go through his entire ultimate without dying after OB46:

4. Crowd Control - Kinessa, Buck, Mal'Damba, Pip, Grohk, Ruckus, Inara can slow him down, he cannot reach people to hit them with melee attack. BK, Mal'Damba, Inara and Sha Lin can stun him, he can't do anything since he can't use shield on ult. Cassie, Drogoz, BK, Sha Lin, Makoa and Torvald can throw/pull him away, he can't reach people. Grover can cripple or even root him, he can't spin or even move. Evie and Inara can slow + cripple him, he can't reach people or spin. Mal'Damba can scare him, he can't do anything. Pip can turn him into a 1500 HP chicken, all he can do is die in the most frustrating and humiliating way (damn, and Evil Mojo charges up almost 3x faster than Ancient Rage, which makes this the most ridiculous of all listed in here) .

So now over half of the champions can counter his ult to the point of rendering it almost useless, using only a normal CC ability. Now you see why this nerf is unreasonable and basically ruined his ultimate?

BurmaJones
03-28-2017, 09:26 PM
Let me know when you come up with a counter that doesn't assume you're solo as Makoa. Burning all your cc and damage on a 10k hp target leaves the enemy team free.

P.S. Keeping distance isn't a real counter. It's called conceding.

OzzyOzzy
03-29-2017, 01:09 AM
I feel like this whole thread just spiraled down to Burmajones vs everyone else here.

This image is fitting.

http://i.imgur.com/3Kq8yxJ.jpg

SnakeNox
03-29-2017, 03:50 AM
[CENTER]I feel like this whole thread just spiraled down to Burmajones vs everyone else here.

Um... no BurmaJones aint alone in thinking Makoa is better off now.

Thales3002
03-29-2017, 04:26 AM
Let me know when you come up with a counter that doesn't assume you're solo as Makoa. Burning all your cc and damage on a 10k hp target leaves the enemy team free.

P.S. Keeping distance isn't a real counter. It's called conceding.

So basically you want to be able to easily kill an ulting Makoa when his team is with him helping him? LOL

P.S. That's like saying that keeping distance from Skye's time bomb, Evie's icestorm or Barik's dome shield is conceding.

SnakeNox
03-29-2017, 04:46 AM
So basically you want to be able to easily kill an ulting Makoa when his team is with him helping him? LOL

You truly are the strawman master builder. I bow to your greatness.

RogueRifler
03-29-2017, 07:36 AM
Let me know when you come up with a counter that doesn't assume you're solo as Makoa. Burning all your cc and damage on a 10k hp target leaves the enemy team free.

P.S. Keeping distance isn't a real counter. It's called conceding.

Cassie and Big Game. Does 5k damage to Makoa in 1.5s (shot + blast shot + disengage + shot), knocks him off point. Ults and gains CC immunity and kites him while whittling him down. This isn't conceding because with disengage you choose where Makoa ends up.

Mal Damba and Ripened Gourd. Even if Makoa is on point, in a gourd you can kite around him while contesting. Furthermore the stuns coming out of Damba shut down his ult ez pz. If you get scared just use Fear. Mal Damba can build his ult 2-3 times a round if you know what you are doing.

Ruckus and Flux Generator. Makoa ults, you pop Repulsor and hold down m1. Then you pop Emitter when that ends. You don't even need to pop ulti to kill him especially if you have life rip and you are getting head shots.

Fernando. Pop shield and laugh.

Inara's entire kit counters his ultimate.

Pip / Drogoz Ulti. Both build incredibly quickly compared to Ancient Rage.

In all of these situations Makoa's ult is being shut down by one person and in many cases that one person isn't even using an ultimate. None of these are hypothetical, I have done all of the above and 1v1d the turtle easily. There are more theoretical ones, I haven't played BK in a while but I'd imagine that he'd have a field day with an ulting Makoa that isn't CC immune.

You could argue that the attention that Makoa draws from one person can be compensated for by his team. But for every person that is supposed to counter the person countering Makoa there is another person who can focus that person. What does this actually mean in a coordinated team fight? Who knows? I don't play competitively. All I know is that I can 1v1 the angry turtle without giving up the point. There are other people on my team that can do it too. Between the people that are still alive one can challenge him while the rest deal with the other team.

BurmaJones
03-29-2017, 08:17 AM
Weird, it's almost like at least one person has to burn their whole kit just to move the Makoa off point if he ults, something you couldn't do before.

I don't see what's wrong with the enemy team needing to use up cc to deal with Makoa. What other counter is there in a team fight? You can't just back off or ignore him because either he or his team will punish yours for it.

Also you keep acting like there's limitless cc to use. Most cc has a long cooldown or is tied to an ult. Not to mention only a portion of the roster has cc. Your posts all imply any one champion in the game can just nonstop spam slows, stuns or knockbacks on him. That's not even close to reality. Makoa has hook and shell spin during ult as well, it's not like he's just helplessly waddling around having no chance to do anything, even if he does get a couple cc's thrown his way.

No single champion will nullify Makoa in his ult without using their kit including ult. There's nothing wrong with that, it's called balance. If a Pip needs to use his ult and empty most of his clip to kill Makoa--one of five enemies--that's a fair trade, ult+ for an ult. Or a Mal'damba has to pick the slow gourd legendary, use a reload stun and save his ult to fear ult'd Makoa, that's literally tying down his entire kit and dictating reactionary ult use just for one ult.

Prenerf the only way to deal with Makoa during ult was either conceding a lot of ground to him or hoping he used his ult poorly and was alone and heavily outnumbered. That's not balance.

The reality is that cc has a high opportunity cost in addition to the cooldown. If an enemy team is burning every cooldown just to focus a target like ult'd Makoa, they're trading several important cooldowns or potentially one or more ultimates just to deal with a single ultimate. No matter how you wanna twist it, that does leaves Makoa's team very open to deal with the whole enemy team in exchange for them having dealt with the Makoa.

RogueRifler
03-29-2017, 09:06 AM
@BurmaJones
One team doesn't have to burn all their cooldowns, I just outlined how I personally have singlehandedly dealt with an ulting Makoa 1v1. You're acting like trading an ability that takes more than 60s to build for 1-2 abilities that takes 8s to recharge is a good trade. It's not. It's not even a good trade for a Pip or Drogoz ultimate because those can be built in half of the time it takes to build a Makoa ultimate or less. Not to mention Makoa usually dies and the person 1v1ing him doesn't (except Drogoz).

The reason Makoa can't simply use hook etc is that the person 1v1ing him is CC immune (cassie, drogoz), blocking his hook (fernando), has insane damage reduction (Inara, Ruckus), or has iframes and CC on demand (Mal Damba). He loses all of those fights 1v1. 10k hp means jack all when you can't punish or even stay in place.

BurmaJones
03-29-2017, 09:48 AM
First off, your experiential argument is patently bullshit. A single Damba stun and gourd doesn't shut down his ult, it stalls him briefly. And your scenario with Cassie displaces him and deals almost half his hp but he still has shell spin, and she used her entire kit plus ult. That's an uneven trade for Cassie and doesn't even result in Makoa dying. You're also under some assumption that it should require more than a champion to have a chance to counter Makoa's ult. That's not the case for most of the roster.

Second, if we go through your list of stuff in the second paragraph excluding Mal'damba, which I already refuted, it's counting on enemies using ults, and also assumes nothing but 1v1's which is retarded. This game is 5v5, you can't make valid arguments using specific 1v1 scenarios in a vacuum, in actual gameplay that virtually never happens. Even if it did, Makoa using his ult just for a random 1v1 is a moronic idea in the first place and should end up with his ult being a waste or bad trade at best.

You're also ignoring the possibility of Makoa just using his ult after a potential counter has been burned. He has nearly 5k hp and high utility, damage and mobility for a tank. He can force a lot of cc or ult usage before using his ult, which he could then trump by using his ult after.

Furthermore, if the whole enemy team is just saving their cc and ults for the moment when Makoa uses his, that's a huge advantage for him and his team.

You're clearly ignoring actual gameplay situations and the other 8 people in a game by just drumming up these harebrained 1v1's where Makoa's ult won't be impactful.

You're also ignoring how, just glancing at your match history here, Makoa is a very common pick and wins a lot of the games where he doesn't have a mirror match. You're also ignoring his untouched ubiquity and first-pick status in pro games.

If his ult is so bad then why is he still so dominant? If the rest of his kit is just that good, then it's balanced for his ult to be more situational and counterable, even though you haven't been able to argue that anyway.

RogueRifler
03-29-2017, 10:15 AM
@BurmaJones
I mean. It's not random hypothetical circumstance. They're just results from playing Paladins recently. The only time I think I have died to an ulting Makoa since OB46 has been when I was playing Skye and being a retard. The only time I have seen a Makoa ult and be useful was as you described. His team was winning the team fight and the enemy team was focusing him for some reason so he healed. I have never seen an ulting Makoa hold a point or accomplish anything spectacular since ob46.

As to Cassie, bruh you forgot about dodge roll. Can't hook her, can't catch her, she wins. The total time added up for Cassie to build an ult and the cooldowns she trades for Makoa's ult is not comparable. Even less so when those cooldowns charge individually.

Damba wins 1v1 on point against an ulting Makoa. Have you seen an ulting Makoa in a slow gourd? When he shell spins, he's no longer on point. If he hooks, you dash then stun. Kite through the gourd and there goes most of his ult trying to waddle to you through a slow field. Or he gives up tries to hook someone else and you stun him before he can punish the hook.

A lot of these examples are 1v1s because it's easier to show that it is quite common for one person to handle an ulting Makoa with ease. It's not practical to iterate through all the situations that could arise in a team fight. Again, in these matches, I'm not saving cooldowns. I literally don't care if Makoa has ult. Chances are that at least one person on my team will have a CC ability to throw at him. By the time he's gotten through that another will probably be ready.

BurmaJones
03-29-2017, 10:32 AM
I hate to go this route, but you either don't know how to play Makoa or you're running into bad Makoas. There's no way every professional is just mistaken in picking him first every single match. There's no way he just happens to be a very common pick in your casual games and winning the lion's share of them. There's no way his ult is just so bad it's literally useless and literally any single champion can dispatch of him "with ease" as you keep saying.

And you're still ignoring the whole notion that if his kit is just so good that him having a weak ult (which you have not proven, despite your exaggerated anecdotes) doesn't matter because he's just that strong. It's like you don't think it's possible for his ult to be good unless it's a massive health spike, hp reset and has high kill potential. It was too good before, period. Was removing cc immunity the way to nerf it? Apparently that choice is working out just fine because he's still the best front line in every level of play still.

RogueRifler
03-29-2017, 10:38 AM
I hate to go this route, but you either don't know how to play Makoa or you're running into bad Makoas. There's no way every professional is just mistaken in picking him first every single match. There's no way he just happens to be a very common pick in your casual games and winning the lion's share of them. There's no way his ult is just so bad it's literally useless and literally any single champion can dispatch of him "with ease" as you keep saying.

And you're still ignoring the whole notion that if his kit is just so good that him having a weak ult (which you have not proven, despite your exaggerated anecdotes) doesn't matter because he's just that strong. It's like you don't think it's possible for his ult to be good unless it's a massive health spike, hp reset and has high kill potential. It was too good before, period. Was removing cc immunity the way to nerf it? Apparently that choice is working out just fine because he's still the best front line in every level of play still.

I never contested the fact that he's OP. He is. His hook needs a nerf, don't get me wrong I've been asking for that. Maybe even make it so he can't Shell Spin during his ultimate. But he needs CC immunity for his ultimate to do anything. I stopped playing Makoa in ob45 ish because I have 60hr on him and I got frustrated with being the community's FL and support bitch. So those stats don't reflect ob46 at all. These anecdotes are mainly to try and lend credence to the idea that this nerf to Ancient Rage might not have been the best solution. That's all I am arguing.

BurmaJones
03-29-2017, 12:01 PM
this nerf to Ancient Rage might not have been the best solution. That's all I am arguing.This is a much more reasonable and agreeable position than "His ult is useless" which I've seen said more than once.

My guess as to why they nerfed his ult and avoided his hook was because his hook is what his main niche is. Personally I wasn't expecting an ult nerf but I don't think it's an issue now that it has been nerfed because it's still a strong ult in a team fight setting and because the rest of his kit is so good

I would've just added a second or two to his hook cooldown and shortened its range slightly. As for his ult, I don't know how I'd nerf it if not cc immunity. Perhaps it's still cc immune but no more skill usage during it.

SnakeNox
03-29-2017, 12:58 PM
Damba wins 1v1 on point against an ulting Makoa. Have you seen an ulting Makoa in a slow gourd? When he shell spins, he's no longer on point. If he hooks, you dash then stun. Kite through the gourd and there goes most of his ult trying to waddle to you through a slow field. Or he gives up tries to hook someone else and you stun him before he can punish the hook.


I will debunk the claim that a Maldamba can defeat an Ulting Makoa. Even if Maldamba has his Ult ready as well.
We must examine all the strenghts of Makoas Ult in order to see if Maldamba can indeed, do this.

The thing is, the strenght of Makoas Ult isnt just the duration of which its active. Its powerful because unlike every other Ult in the game, he benefits from using it as late as possible. Other Ults needs to be used early. And the earlier you have to use an Ult, the harder it is to value if its even needed to pop it. If you play Makoa and you are clearly winning the fight, you can save it. If you play Ruckus, are down to 1/3rd health, you have lost a lot of value from his Ult.

And because Makoa can save his Ult until he absolutely needs it, we must account for the time before activation. We must have Makoa fight close to death first.

So Maldamba VS Makoas Ult should also include Maldamba VS Makoa before ulting, since his pre ult form also benefits from his Ult, you follow?

Maldamba VS Makoa

First, who would win in a regular Ultless fight? Makoa can do very high damage with Pluck, and his regular cannon also do high damage. I argue that for Maldamba to win against a normal Makoa, he needs to use his own ult to even get close to beating Makoa. So say Maldamba is hit with a hook and some shots. Both champions would be pretty low health, but I would still put my bets on Makoa, but hey, for the sake of it, say both are pretty low on health.

Makoa Ults.

Now Makoa has 10 000 health and Maldamba has 600 ish. One or two swings would kill maldamba. Makoa now has 2 options to get close. But if Maldamba has not used any abilities to get away from Makoa before, he would probably be close enough. So he only needs to hook or shell him to win. And EVEN if Maldamba doesnt die, he cannot bring down Makoas health. 8 Seconds will pass and Makoa is back to 4800 Health.

Conclusion: Makoa wins. The claim that Maldamba would beat Makoas Ult has been debunked.
And if you say that my claim is unfair, that only his Ult should count, then I say: His pre Ult health is part of his Ult. Its like saying Fernandos Ult is bad because on its own, its just stalling for time and doesnt kill anything, and Fernando has little killing power during it.

If you don't count in the health reset, you might as well not count in the added invincibility for Fernandos allies.

RogueRifler
03-29-2017, 01:04 PM
I will debunk the claim that a Maldamba can defeat an Ulting Makoa. Even if Maldamba has his Ult ready as well.
We must examine all the strenghts of Makoas Ult in order to see if Maldamba can indeed, do this.

The thing is, the strenght of Makoas Ult isnt just the duration of which its active. Its powerful because unlike every other Ult in the game, he benefits from using it as late as possible. Other Ults needs to be used early. And the earlier you have to use an Ult, the harder it is to value if its even needed to pop it. If you play Makoa and you are clearly winning the fight, you can save it. If you play Ruckus, are down to 1/3rd health, you have lost a lot of value from his Ult.

And because Makoa can save his Ult until he absolutely needs it, we must account for the time before activation. We must have Makoa fight close to death first.

So Maldamba VS Makoas Ult should also include Maldamba VS Makoa before ulting, since his pre ult form also benefits from his Ult, you follow?

Maldamba VS Makoa

First, who would win in a regular Ultless fight? Makoa can do very high damage with Pluck, and his regular cannon also do high damage. I argue that for Maldamba to win against a normal Makoa, he needs to use his own ult to even get close to beating Makoa. So say Maldamba is hit with a hook and some shots. Both champions would be pretty low health, but I would still put my bets on Makoa, but hey, for the sake of it, say both are pretty low on health.

Makoa Ults.

Now Makoa has 10 000 health and Maldamba has 600 ish. One or two swings would kill maldamba. Makoa now has 2 options to get close. But if Maldamba has not used any abilities to get away from Makoa before, he would probably be close enough. So he only needs to hook or shell him to win. And EVEN if Maldamba doesnt die, he cannot bring down Makoas health. 8 Seconds will pass and Makoa is back to 4800 Health.

Conclusion: Makoa wins. The claim that Maldamba would beat Makoas Ult has been debunked.
And if you say that my claim is unfair, that only his Ult should count, then I say: His pre Ult health is part of his Ult. Its like saying Fernandos Ult is bad because on its own, its just stalling for time and doesnt kill anything, and Fernando has little killing power during it.

If you don't count in the health reset, you might as well not count in the added invincibility for Fernandos allies.

1v1 me bro. Ulting makoa doesn't have range so Damba wins. Regular Makoa is a toss up. It depends on if he has cauterize and lands every shot.

SnakeNox
03-29-2017, 01:16 PM
1v1 me bro. Ulting makoa doesn't have range so Damba wins. Regular Makoa is a toss up. It depends on if he has cauterize and lands every shot.

Sure, I mean, why not test it out. Seems reasonable.
Can you do custom games to always have Ult ready? Gotta check that out.

So rules: Get to point, fight to the death. Use Ult whenever its the most beneficial.
Ok?

can you add me, I cant seem to find you based on your name. its just SnakeNox for me.
edit: ok now it worked.

RogueRifler
03-29-2017, 01:20 PM
Sure, I mean, why not test it out. Seems reasonable.
Can you do custom games to always have Ult ready? Gotta check that out.

So rules: Get to point, fight to the death. Use Ult whenever its the most beneficial.
Ok?

Sounds good, what's your timezone? I'll take the ping disadvantage if there is one. 2AM UTC sound good?

jaladreips
03-29-2017, 01:23 PM
Did anyone take into account the fact that Makoa (and other FLs) have their ultimate 2 to 3 times less often than other champions? And now Makoa's ult is so bad I find Makoa bigger threat when he's not ulting.

BurmaJones
03-29-2017, 01:28 PM
Aaaarrreeee you ready to ruuumblllllllllllllllllllle?!

BurmaJones
03-29-2017, 01:37 PM
Did anyone take into account the fact that Makoa (and other FLs) have their ultimate 2 to 3 times less often than other champions? And now Makoa's ult is so bad I find Makoa bigger threat when he's not ulting.

He was before the nerf too because he has a ranged cannon shot vs a melee in his ult. Even with the old cc immunity people could still use their mobility to avoid his melee attack, since he doesn't have bonus move speed or anything. You move away when he ults, if he hooks you dash back.

Nobody was using his ult prenerf to avoid specific cc or get kills, it's always been used to avoid dying. You fight until you get very low hp, then you use the ult to go from being almost dead to 10k hp suddenly. No Makoa was forgoing their ranged attack to melee people instead.

RogueRifler
03-29-2017, 01:43 PM
Aaaarrreeee you ready to ruuumblllllllllllllllllllle?!

It's on. If you want in on this I'll take on any turtle that wants to go against my snek. These pompous written slug fests can take a back seat to blood and venom for an evening.

BurmaJones
03-29-2017, 01:48 PM
1. That was a Michael Buffer reference though now that I think of it he says let's get ready to rumble.

2. I won't be on for another 6 hours probably. I'm at work for another 4 then I have to pick up my girlfriend and figure out dinner.

-6 GMT here. Aka CST.

How did the 1v1 with SnakeNox go?

Btw I'd rather just play Makoa in a real game. Would mean a lot more imo.

RogueRifler
03-29-2017, 01:52 PM
1. That was a Michael Buffer reference though now that I think of it he says let's get ready to rumble.

2. I won't be on for another 6 hours probably. I'm at work for another 4 then I have to pick up my girlfriend and figure out dinner.

-6 GMT here. Aka CST.

How did the 1v1 with SnakeNox go?

Btw I'd rather just play Makoa in a real game. Would mean a lot more imo.

I can't get on until I get home. 2am UTC is 8pm CST (I am also CST). We should group. The 1v1s don't mean much, I am just tired of the verbal vomitorium that is going on here. I'd rather settle this in a duel and get on with life.

SnakeNox
03-29-2017, 02:03 PM
I can't get on until I get home. 2am UTC is 8pm CST (I am also CST). We should group. The 1v1s don't mean much, I am just tired of the verbal vomitorium that is going on here. I'd rather settle this in a duel and get on with life.

Its 9 PM for me at the time of writing. Just accept my friend request and whenever both are in, we'll custom game or something.

We could have more people try, or join as Ult buffers. XD

BurmaJones
03-29-2017, 02:08 PM
Or let's play some Makoa in real matches.

RogueRifler
03-29-2017, 02:08 PM
Its 9 PM for me at the time of writing. Just accept my friend request and whenever both are in, we'll custom game or something.

We could have more people try, or join as Ult buffers. XD

Ouch UTC +3? Maybe on the weekend then! I played on Euro servers before only a 20 ping difference than what I get on NA servers. #Comcast

Vampragon43
03-30-2017, 12:44 PM
You SHOULD just buy Resilience. Most other ultimates don't have CC immunity, and they are much easier to eliminate. Buck, Cassie, Barik, and BK are all easy to kill even during their ultimates, and half of them don't even have CC immunity. Tell me, how many other ultimates give you 10000 health? Just because Makoa can actually be countered now doesn't mean he is bad, and it definitely doesn't mean he was "overkilled".

Nudgarrobot
03-30-2017, 02:01 PM
SETTLE IT IN SMASH

I like this mentality.