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Vinayaka
02-23-2017, 11:37 AM
Hi,

After several scrim I realized that the new legendary card was completely OP. How can you heal more than 10k per minute with a Caut III in the opposite team by only pushing one button ? It's not fair, when Mal must aim his target properly Ying only need to press one button and she's out healing Damba or any other healer ...
Annoying as hell :(

RogueRifler
02-23-2017, 11:44 AM
Agreed. Ying lost 14% damage and gained a potential 100% healing. In practice it's like a 50% buff, but that's still insane. She was a top tier support to begin with.

CandySuxxx
02-23-2017, 11:46 AM
I wonder how they got the idea lul

Gordre
02-23-2017, 11:54 AM
Mal'Damba will probably not be the best healer for some time. I think Pip will be the second, behind Ying who will be in the first place. That's just what I believe, but maybe good aim can make Mal'Damba good still...

NekonataM
02-23-2017, 11:58 AM
I agree. Her healings were good enough then and now they are too strong.

Wallachia
02-23-2017, 11:59 AM
I'll take the chance to recover my diamond border on ying, huehuahue.

Jusey1
02-23-2017, 12:10 PM
Honestly, it isn't as OP as you may think. Ying actually had the 4th highest heal rate in the game. Only reason why she was better than three was because of how easy her healing is and her ultimate gives her a lot of more healing than normally. However, this legendary card put her up right next Mal'Damba on healing rate. Actually a bit higher than Mal'Damba, but not too far, making her (with this card) a pure healer support while Mal'Damba can still provide almost as strong healing but also strong cc. Kinda funny but Mal'Damba went from second highest healing potential to fourth highest now.

For people wondering, the healing potential was as follows:
1. Grohk
2. Mal'Damba
3. Pip
4. Ying
5. Grover

Now, with the legendary system. It is:
1. Pip (Pip's double healing mega potion is OP. Needs nerf if you ask me).
2. Ying
3. Grohk
4. Mal'Damba
5. Grover

Granted, if you ask me, Mal, Ying, and Pip are still the top three supports since Grover is generally weaker in the role (except for his rooted ability) and Grohk is too easily counter-able (but Grohk is much stronger now, so he is viable in certain situations. He counters Pip strongly now).

ukchivas
02-23-2017, 12:52 PM
Ying and Grover FTW.

Brodeo
02-23-2017, 12:54 PM
Honestly, it isn't as OP as you may think. Ying actually had the 4th highest heal rate in the game. Only reason why she was better than three was because of how easy her healing is and her ultimate gives her a lot of more healing than normally. However, this legendary card put her up right next Mal'Damba on healing rate. Actually a bit higher than Mal'Damba, but not too far, making her (with this card) a pure healer support while Mal'Damba can still provide almost as strong healing but also strong cc. Kinda funny but Mal'Damba went from second highest healing potential to fourth highest now.

For people wondering, the healing potential was as follows:
1. Grohk
2. Mal'Damba
3. Pip
4. Ying
5. Grover

Now, with the legendary system. It is:
1. Pip (Pip's double healing mega potion is OP. Needs nerf if you ask me).
2. Ying
3. Grohk
4. Mal'Damba
5. Grover

Granted, if you ask me, Mal, Ying, and Pip are still the top three supports since Grover is generally weaker in the role (except for his rooted ability) and Grohk is too easily counter-able (but Grohk is much stronger now, so he is viable in certain situations. He counters Pip strongly now).

Each champions healing potential is entirely dependant on your team comp. Ying heals consistently throughout the match, so over time she effectively raises the total HP of her frontliners. Grohk has way better burst heals, but is much riskier (totem hard to protect, long CD). Damba is going to get better heals than Ying if he can continuously spam his abilities, but then he can't do as much attacking as Ying or Grohk could because his heals require constant player input. Pip has insane burst heals, but needs a grouped team to really shine, due to how his CD reduction works.

The math for a healer's potential output only matters of they're on a team that can provide ideal healing conditions.

ukchivas
02-23-2017, 12:54 PM
Mal'Damba will probably not be the best healer for some time. I think Pip will be the second, behind Ying who will be in the first place. That's just what I believe, but maybe good aim can make Mal'Damba good still...

I really don't consider Mal'damba as healer, Mal'damba could have been flank

Jusey1
02-23-2017, 01:28 PM
Each champions healing potential is entirely dependant on your team comp. Ying heals consistently throughout the match, so over time she effectively raises the total HP of her frontliners. Grohk has way better burst heals, but is much riskier (totem hard to protect, long CD). Damba is going to get better heals than Ying if he can continuously spam his abilities, but then he can't do as much attacking as Ying or Grohk could because his heals require constant player input. Pip has insane burst heals, but needs a grouped team to really shine, due to how his CD reduction works.

The math for a healer's potential output only matters of they're on a team that can provide ideal healing conditions.

And I agree with what you're saying. I was just saying, based on the maximum healing potential, Ying isn't as powerful as people may think. She's a lot more viable now though, that's for sure. In 5 minz, Ying went from 235K to 470K, which is pretty big. Much larger than everybody else except for Pip. (For the record, Pip was around 127,200 PER ALLY, which is a grand total of 508,800 if it hits all four allies).

For people thinking Mal'Damba is a bad healer... His healing potential was around 347K before legendary. However, this has been boosted with an extra 30K with his legendary which puts him up to 377K now, which is wow. Still quite a bit behind from Ying actually. I thought Mal was higher but guess I was incorrect. However, Grover was originally 216K (216K in total before, if he heals all four allies) but he got a small boost too.

But yeah... I guess Ying's healing legendary does need a slight adjustment. Pip's mega potion definably needs a nerf though if you ask me. Maybe the amount it heals decreases the more people you are healing?

Brodeo
02-23-2017, 01:50 PM
It's a lot more useful to analyse them in specific situations. If your damage gets wiped, how long can each healer keep the tank alive vs 3-5 enemies? Is the healing mobile, allowing the tank and healer to escape and wait to regroup? This stuff matters as much as healing output over time when considering balance. That's why Grover is much more viable than his healing output might suggest. That's why Damba is much more impressive than his healing math might suggest.

EDIT: if anything, Pip's potion should heal More for every ally in its radius. Grouping up and letting Pip heal is already a bad strategy unless the enemy has a terrible team comp. Balancing should make more strategies viable with skill, not less.

RogueRifler
02-24-2017, 12:51 PM
@Jusey1
You are making vacuous assumptions for you analysis, which undermines your effort. Statistical methods are better to determine practical outputs for this sort of complex problem. In the few mirror matches I had as Ying where I didn't pick Life Like, the other Ying out healed me be roughly 50%. This is obviously a low sample size, but it still gives a general idea where that buff sits. Even if Pip literally doubled his avg healing output, which is impractical given that you can't overheal, he would not be putting out the healing that ob43 Ying and Damba provided. So of all the Legendary cards that need adjusting, Mega Potion, isn't one of them.

sirREGlNALD
02-24-2017, 01:05 PM
I don't think it's as OP as people think, but I DO think that it is slightly too strong. I think that maybe the card should allow her to instead have three clones out at once, but only one target each... or they could keep it the same but have the healing reduced to 80% (roughly) of what it currently is (with that card specifically). Just my opinion...

Thoughtfully,

sirREGINALD

SandCube
02-24-2017, 01:11 PM
They should roll back to the datamined version before patch. Which gave a flat +30% heal from illusions. That was way better than the double healing she does now.

bZbIt
02-24-2017, 01:20 PM
can some1 clarify something for me tho, illusions heal 400 p second (not sure if the right number, just off the top of my head), with the new card, does it heal the same 400 max but can be spread (example, 200 to skye + 200 to fernando) or does it heal the maximum value to each ally being healed ( 400 to skye + 400 to fernando) ?

also read it has some sort of bug, didn't have time to test all of this so i was hoping some1 who does can help me out figuring out why the healing numbers went up so damn high

RogueRifler
02-24-2017, 01:36 PM
can some1 clarify something for me tho, illusions heal 400 p second (not sure if the right number, just off the top of my head), with the new card, does it heal the same 400 max but can be spread (example, 200 to skye + 200 to fernando) or does it heal the maximum value to each ally being healed ( 400 to skye + 400 to fernando) ?

also read it has some sort of bug, didn't have time to test all of this so i was hoping some1 who does can help me out figuring out why the healing numbers went up so damn high

Ying clones heal for 350hps. This Legendary card allows one Ying clone to heal two people for 350hps, but it can't heal a single person for 700hps.