View Full Version : Adjusting Torvald and Killing Deathballs for Good

02-16-2017, 07:23 AM
Alright, first of all, we have to thank Torvald and Maeve for reintroducing the two-frontliner setup. Torvald is a support-frontliner that gives shields to his allies, while Maeve's high mobility, high sustain and low-risk offense punishes the poor use of low-HP champions.

But let's set aside Maeve for the meantime. For now, we talk about Torvald.

Torvald primarily focuses on shields, whether it is giving shields to allies, generating shields using his gauntlet, or depleting enemy shields. There's also his ult, Hyper Beam, that is a literal pushover. His kit, while lacking mobility, helps him to hold off some punishment on his own and gives clutch shielding to threatened champions while punishing anyone who comes near. But, when teamed up with another frontliner, both champions become beasts, with Torvald's defense and your frontliner of choice's offense giving a strong advantage, especially with a support ally and against a more traditional frontliner-support setup.

Remember Hi-rez and their attempts to kill the deathball setup by nerfing several frontliners, buffing Wrecker and weakening Haven and Blast Shields? Well, Torvald has made the deathball viable again, and we have to deal with that somehow.

Since Gauntlet is somehow balanced so far aside from a discrepancy on target range and target lock range, let's move on to the rest of his kit.

Recharge is Torvald's primary shield generation skill. Torvald self-generates 850 shield per second for up to 2.5 seconds, or siphons 2000 shield from enemy champions. It feels kinda harmless and even balanced, but there are several issues to it. For example, Torvald starts at maximum shield, 6000, giving him a natural early-game advantage compared to all the other shield-using champions. His shield also acts as effective HP. This means that Torvald heals up when using Recharge at 2000 effective HP per second. Only Grover's ult (at 2500 HP per second) outheals him.

My suggestion is to further lower his generation rates from 850 to 600 for self-generation, and from 2000 to 1500 on enemy shield siphoning. Personally, 1500 is already high, but a balance between setup time and recovery time on effective HP must be watched out. Also take note that Torvald's loadout Glyph of Siphoning gives him up to 400 shield per elimination, and other cards further increase Recharge's efficiency.

Protection grants one of Torvald's allies a 2000 HP shield for 2 seconds. Two issues I have with the shield is that 2000 HP is a 2-second mini Barik ult for squishy champions and it can be cast the same way as Tyra's Hunter's Mark. This gives a good Torvald with management skills the ability to beef up flankers enough for a sure kill without a tradeoff. Flankers have their respective kits for a reason, and 2000 HP shields are too much help for them.

To address this, Protection's cast range should be shrunk to the common range of damagers, which are often near the frontliner-support duo on the objective, and the shield should be weakened from 2000 HP to 1200 HP. 1200 HP is still enough for anyone to survive a Dredge Anchor or Evie shot, but not enough to turn a flanker into a Barik for two seconds.

Another addition is to prevent Protection from adding to the shields of other champions. Instead, stronger shields win—a champ with a 3000 HP shield gets no shield from Protection. This means Torvald attempting to use Protection on shield-toting champs like Fernando, Makoa and Ruckus, as well as those with loadout-based shields like Grohk and Barik, will not get too much shields. This primarily exists to prevent the deathball setup.

Runic Blast is not gonna be touched for now, due to the fact that it gives a unique debuff that has no points of comparison that exist yet.

Hyper Beam, also known as the GTFO Button, pushes all enemies it hits with enough force to knock them out of the map, or just far enough to clear the contest range on your map of choice. People suggest using Resilience, but it just hits so frequently that not even Resilience III will help you fight the force of Torvald's gauntlet. This ult is one reason why Torvald is picked so frequently; it trivializes punishment for bad positioning, and an experienced Torvald will almost always get a kill from it.

One issue with Torvald's ult is that the moment you hear IT'S, you're probably already in the air. Compare that to most ults that have an almost choreographed set up of actions and audio cues that prepare the enemy team for the ult. To address this, Torvald's ult must be given at least 1 second or 1.5 seconds of "warning" that his ult is about to fire.

Another thing is Hyper Beam being difficult to counter compared to other champs. Killing Torvald is obviously one option (albeit a generic response to an ulting champion), so we should enforce a hit limit to Hyper Beam. To me, a 5-hit limit is good enough that the ult doesn't lose its functionality, but it also allows Resilience to work better against it.

Overall, Torvald is a strong champion that kinda worsens the deathball problem Hirez has been tackling all throughout Season 0, and they should look for ways to make him a viable support while avoiding this support aspect from making frontliners too strong. I'm sure I haven't weakened his frontliner support factor yet, but any suggestions are free for everyone to voice out.

02-16-2017, 05:21 PM
I disagree with all proposed changes, you want to limit his ulti so that i can hit an enemy 5 times only - ridiculous, now it hits them like several dozen times or so in order to send them far away, with 5 ticks it would do nothing.

Also you count shield as hp, fine, if shield is HP to you, then drogoz' rockets with wrecker deal 2,5k dmg per hit.

Personally unless it's frog isle or maybe to some extent fish market I find torvald to be the weakest frontliner.

02-16-2017, 05:36 PM
Five ticks would still be enough to kick players out of the map. The changes just made Resilience strong against it without changing Resilience itself.

Also you count shield as hp, fine, if shield is HP to you, then drogoz' rockets with wrecker deal 2,5k dmg per hit.

Drogoz will invalidate your shield anyway with or without Decimate (which very few Drogozes even use), and that's not your problem. That's his purpose as a shield hard counter. Best you can do is silence him so that your teammates can deal with him for the two seconds of the Runic Blast debuff.