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View Full Version : Please fix or just remove Fernando and Barik



Spacey1
02-13-2017, 04:07 PM
I die a little inside every time my teammates pick these champions, and those games are usually losses. A halfway competent Torvald renders Fernando almost completely irrelevant and impotent, and Barik is not even a proper front line at all.

Atilah
02-13-2017, 04:42 PM
Fernando useless?

Uninstall Paladins. Now.

Jusey1
02-13-2017, 05:41 PM
A good Fernando can easily deal with Torvald. Actually, I've learned a lot of dealing with Torvald as Fernando or as Makoa.

For example, as Makoa, you want to knock down Torv's shield then do your bubble shield. However, within the next second, that Torv is gonna start trying to absorb your shield. You gotta do this in that very second or two... Cancel your shield, and hook his behind to cancel his shield-recharge, then finish off Torvald from there.

While Fernando cannot cancel Torvald's shield-recharge, Fernando can still scare an enemy Torvald away or get some help from his teams, if needs be. Just gotta know when Torvald is either dead or has his shield-recharge on cooldown before using your own shield.

As for Barik, he's a powerful frontline if done right. He's just different from the others. If a very good Barik gets himself and his team set-up on point, completely... You lost that point pretty much and aren't gonna break through without Bomb King or Drogoz, or some sort of powerful AOE based ultimate.

Spacey1
02-13-2017, 08:10 PM
While Fernando cannot cancel Torvald's shield-recharge, Fernando can still scare an enemy Torvald away or get some help from his teams, if needs be. Just gotta know when Torvald is either dead or has his shield-recharge on cooldown before using your own shield.

A good Torvald is going to be watching for Fernando's shield to use his recharge on, though. When Torvald and Fernando face off, it's all up to Torvald ... because he can hold his shield recharge to use when Fernando uses his shield or use it independently of that if the situation calls for it, but Fernando has no choice: he has to watch for Torvald to use his recharge first. Meanwhile, Torvald is automatically shielded at all times and can also attack at the same time, while Fernando must shut off his attacks to bring up his shield (which Torvald can then immediately steal).

And then at the same time, Torvald is also bubbling his allies. Note also that these bubbles are "fire and forget," whereas if Fernando wants to protect his allies, he has to try to position himself in front of them with his shield, which stops working very well when people just go around it or through it. But oh wait, he can't use it anyway because he's waiting for Torvald to recharge! So just what is Fernando doing for his allies while he desperately holds back his shield in the hopes that Torvald will go ahead and burn his recharge? And what is Fernando doing about his own survival? If he's not putting his shield up, he's just a big target and will die pretty quickly himself from damage directed his way.

Apart from Barik, who has his own problems (as I mentioned), other front lines have a way to respond to these shenanigans, as you pointed out yourself with respect to Makoa. Ruckus, since he's essentially a front line/damage hybrid, can also deal with Torvald by keeping a little distance initially and using his considerable dps to burn Torvald's shielding down from outside of his attack range. So he's also fine. But if your team picks Fernando, and the opposing team picks Torvald, if player skills are remotely equal, it's like you're a man down relative to them. A great Fernando might outfox and beat a mediocre Torvald, but he's not going to be able to deal with a great Torvald. No way.

LoboSora
02-13-2017, 08:15 PM
What is Fernando doing for his allies

Don't ask what your Fernando can do you your team, but what your team can do to your Fernando.

Seriously Tho. If you have a Fernando vs Torvald in the middle, just help him to kill torvald. Easy as that. As Drogoz i can melt Torvald's shield with a good salvo and some nice shots (Dem buffs were good).

It's easy as that. The team works together, Fernando can still be a beast as a frontline (He still top tier in the tank area).

Spacey1
02-13-2017, 08:26 PM
Seriously Tho. If you have a Fernando vs Torvald in the middle, just help him to kill torvald. Easy as that. As Drogoz i can melt Torvald's shield with a good salvo and some nice shots (Dem buffs were good).

It's easy as that. The team works together, Fernando can still be a beast as a frontline (He still top tier in the tank area).

Okay, so what happens when the enemy team's Kinessa or Viktor or whatever shoots your Drogoz down? It's not like it's Torvald vs. Fernando + his entire team. Torvald gets a team, too! But meanwhile, Torvald is hard-countering Fernando in a way that no other front line counters another (except for Barik, who's mostly countered by everyone). That Fernando's team might step up to carry him doesn't really fix or change the fundamental problem.

LoboSora
02-13-2017, 09:04 PM
Okay, so what happens when the enemy team's Kinessa or Viktor or whatever shoots your Drogoz down? It's not like it's Torvald vs. Fernando + his entire team. Torvald gets a team, too! But meanwhile, Torvald is hard-countering Fernando in a way that no other front line counters another (except for Barik, who's mostly countered by everyone). That Fernando's team might step up to carry him doesn't really fix or change the fundamental problem.

Well, i didn't had any problem with Torvald against fernando.

If the team has a flank, he should take the kinessa out before she shoots my drogoz down. It's all on the team.

firenzee
02-13-2017, 10:56 PM
Hey if they remove Barik, Fernando, Makoa, Ruckus, Torvald, BK, Cassie, Drogoz, Kinessa, Sha Lin, Tyra, Viktor, Grohk, Grover, Mal'Damba, Pip, Ying, Androxus, Buck, Evie, Maeve and Skye perhaps we'll have a balanced game.

sinosleep
02-13-2017, 11:20 PM
Nando up until last week had a 100% pick rate among pros since I started tracking the stuff during champions circuit. He dropped to a lowly 94% pick rate while Torvald sat at 33% For comparison, Maeve was picked 66% of the time, so I don't wanna hear a damned thing about pros not being used to him as she's been out for less and had double the usage.

Nando isn't what he used to be, and Torvald pretty much hard counter's his shield, but he's still a beast. If you're team picks up Nando and the other team counters with Torvald you can counter right back. It's a TEAM game, not a 1:1.

ThatOthell159
02-13-2017, 11:22 PM
Frontline Fernando yea it's pretty bad.


Not flanknando though.



Although Makoa is better at flanking than Fernando, he is hard to play and not many can land 80%+ of their shots on the enemy.

ZenekPr0
02-14-2017, 09:27 AM
I don't particularly like to play fernando against torvald, but on the other hand I don't like to play torvald against any champion different than fernando. As torvald I feel like I can't do anything against enemy team armed in wrecker, as nando I still have my huge hp pool plus some distance attack, and much better mobility.

And I really like Barik and have a decent winning rate so I'm not going to defend this champ, if they buff him it's only better for me:D

Arigena
02-14-2017, 09:48 AM
i think they no need to remove,but rework? Yes ! Barik is "worst" frontline above other frontlines.Fernando is soo bad,but a little rework will be good.
But maybe all will change,when legendary cards came out. One of legendary cards for Nando will have something like "infinite life" for his shield - cannot be destroy.But so far i hear some characters with these legendary cards become OP as hell :D

Brodeo
02-14-2017, 10:37 AM
Barik is difficult to play well, but he can hold his own in the current state of Paladins.

As for Fernando, he's the sort of champion that has to rely on his team to deal with certain threats. Like a good Torvald player. He has plenty of health to keep Torvald busy and useless while your team piles the damage onto Torvald to force his early recharge.

AlphaCultist
02-14-2017, 04:24 PM
5000 is not too much hp-one has only to reload. Torvald has the same+ much better shields. At least, it is much more difficult to play Fernando than Torvald. But when enemy has total wreckers-Torvald is half to useless while Fernando is not!

Spacey1
02-14-2017, 05:40 PM
5000 is not too much hp-one has only to reload. Torvald has the same+ much better shields. At least, it is much more difficult to play Fernando than Torvald. But when enemy has total wreckers-Torvald is half to useless while Fernando is not!

Because Fernando doesn't rely on a shield and so isn't impacted by Wrecker!

(oh wait he does and is nm)

Miyonala
02-14-2017, 05:43 PM
Because Fernando doesn't rely on a shield and so isn't impacted by Wrecker!

(oh wait he does and is nm)

How is Fernando shield dependent? Sure you can pick at loadout that make him one, but if you see Torvald, just pick a more aggressive loadout instead.

Spacey1
02-14-2017, 05:46 PM
How is Fernando shield dependent? Sure you can pick at loadout that make him one, but if you see Torvald, just pick a more aggressive loadout instead.

Um ...

You do know what Fernando's RMB does, right?

And honestly, if you want to play an aggressive front line, Fernando is a pretty horrible choice. He's not exactly a big damage guy and needs to get really close.