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View Full Version : I'm about sick of getting harassed for playing Pip



SandCube
02-13-2017, 08:06 AM
Please make him more viable as a healer. Every other healer has at least 2 healing abilities and/or healing ultimate. Whereas Pip only has one and even that one needs Reload IV card to be anything close to useful, which also has internal cooldown for whatever reason.

From the datamined Legendary cards it doesn't seem like anything is being done about his healing capabilities either:


[PIP] Acid Cloud
Explosive Flask leaves a lingering aoe that does 150 dps.
NEW! [PIP] Acrobatics
You can now double jump during Weightless.
[PIP] Mega Potion
Healing potion heals for twice as much, but has double the cooldown.


Which is a shame, really. Seeing that Ying gets the following:


[YING] Focusing Lens
Deal 150 extra damage if you hit all 5 shots on the same target.
[YING] Lifelike
Illusions heal for 30% more.
[YING] Resonance
Illusions heal allies for 600 in a large area when they are shattered.


And she is the best or the 2nd best healer already. So what about Pip?

AlphaCultist
02-13-2017, 08:24 AM
But Pip is in fact more for slow/damage than for healing. Is that so bad?

TheZurreal
02-13-2017, 08:31 AM
support doesn't mean healer. slows, stuns and other cc help just as much.

SandCube
02-13-2017, 08:38 AM
support doesn't mean healer. slows, stuns and other cc help just as much.

There's only 5 spots in the team and every team needs a healer.

Valkure
02-13-2017, 08:50 AM
That's not true. You can win also without a healer. And I am a main healer... So, yes, sometimes we are useless.

SandCube
02-13-2017, 10:19 AM
That's not true. You can win also without a healer. And I am a main healer... So, yes, sometimes we are useless.

That's more of a bad machmaking at play. Besides, I don't think I've ever seen a competitive match without at least one healer on both teams.

Jusey1
02-13-2017, 10:57 AM
Ying is actually 3rd best healer with Pip being second and Mal'Damba being first. Pip has a very high healing potential that can only be beaten by Mal'Damba. However, Pip's healing is based on groups, not single targets, while Mal'Damba and Ying can heal single targets (granted, Ying's clones are picky on who they heal though but they still only heal a single target).

In reality, you want to pick specific supports with specific team comps. At least these three. Grover is honestly not worth picking unless you got last pick and there is no one on enemy team that will counter Grover (Grover is the easiest support to counter and he has the weakest base healing per second in the game). Grohk is just not reliable at all as a support, despite how powerful his healing totem is. His healing totem forces people to come to him for healing or stay with him, causing the team to stay put on a single spot instead of pushing against the enemy like they should, so Grohk's healing isn't very reliable (it is also easily destroyed if placed in middle of battle unless he has a Fernando protecting it).

So really, Pip, Mal'Damba, and Ying are the only good overall supports. Ying is a great pure healer who can keep one frontline alive forever, while Mal'Damba is a great mixed support with the most powerful healing but also with some stuns to help out, and Pip is great as a versatile support, who can do many things depending on what is needed.

If you ask me, the best times to use certain supports would be as follow:

Mal'Damba - Best with Ruckus and Makoa. This basically allows for a very aggressive frontline comp style and whoever is getting healed by Mal is going to be near impossible to kill without killing the Mal first. Ruckus should be the one getting most healing since Makoa has a few means of healing himself when needed.

Pip - Best with Barik and Torvald or any 3-frontline comp. Barik and Torvald are very self sustaining frontlines. Torvald being the more aggressive one and pushing forward while protecting his allies, giving Barik a chance to set up on point. Since Barik and Torvald are very self-sustaining, Pip can focus heal the damage/flank more so than the frontline, while also providing his own damage and cc.

Ying - Any Other frontline + Torvald or Barik. Again, Torvald and Barik are self-sustaining, so having one plus a Fernando, Makoa, or Ruckus usually means that the other frontline is getting the majority of Ying's healing, and Ying's healing is very high when it is only healing a single target, giving that target very long sustainability, which the other supports cannot do.

This is why when in comp, first two picks should always be frontline. Because your support/damage/flank should be based on the frontlines that are picked.

EvieIV
02-13-2017, 11:23 AM
Ying is actually 3rd best healer with Pip being second and Mal'Damba being first. Pip has a very high healing potential that can only be beaten by Mal'Damba. However, Pip's healing is based on groups, not single targets, while Mal'Damba and Ying can heal single targets (granted, Ying's clones are picky on who they heal though but they still only heal a single target).

In reality, you want to pick specific supports with specific team comps. At least these three. Grover is honestly not worth picking unless you got last pick and there is no one on enemy team that will counter Grover (Grover is the easiest support to counter and he has the weakest base healing per second in the game). Grohk is just not reliable at all as a support, despite how powerful his healing totem is. His healing totem forces people to come to him for healing or stay with him, causing the team to stay put on a single spot instead of pushing against the enemy like they should, so Grohk's healing isn't very reliable (it is also easily destroyed if placed in middle of battle unless he has a Fernando protecting it).

So really, Pip, Mal'Damba, and Ying are the only good overall supports. Ying is a great pure healer who can keep one frontline alive forever, while Mal'Damba is a great mixed support with the most powerful healing but also with some stuns to help out, and Pip is great as a versatile support, who can do many things depending on what is needed.

If you ask me, the best times to use certain supports would be as follow:

Mal'Damba - Best with Ruckus and Makoa. This basically allows for a very aggressive frontline comp style and whoever is getting healed by Mal is going to be near impossible to kill without killing the Mal first. Ruckus should be the one getting most healing since Makoa has a few means of healing himself when needed.

Pip - Best with Barik and Torvald or any 3-frontline comp. Barik and Torvald are very self sustaining frontlines. Torvald being the more aggressive one and pushing forward while protecting his allies, giving Barik a chance to set up on point. Since Barik and Torvald are very self-sustaining, Pip can focus heal the damage/flank more so than the frontline, while also providing his own damage and cc.

Ying - Any Other frontline + Torvald or Barik. Again, Torvald and Barik are self-sustaining, so having one plus a Fernando, Makoa, or Ruckus usually means that the other frontline is getting the majority of Ying's healing, and Ying's healing is very high when it is only healing a single target, giving that target very long sustainability, which the other supports cannot do.

This is why when in comp, first two picks should always be frontline. Because your support/damage/flank should be based on the frontlines that are picked.

defnotbiased

Atlecx
02-13-2017, 11:40 AM
Pip will become dangerously good in the hands of good players using his Mega Potion talent card

Combo that with reload 4. Now combo it with 2 front line

He'll be healing at least 3 targets which means at least a 6 second cooldown each time. And because of the longer cooldown, the cooldown of Reload 4 will be bypassed!

SandCube
02-13-2017, 12:17 PM
Pip will become dangerously good in the hands of good players using his Mega Potion talent card

Combo that with reload 4. Now combo it with 2 front line

He'll be healing at least 3 targets which means at least a 6 second cooldown each time. And because of the longer cooldown, the cooldown of Reload 4 will be bypassed!
It's a terrible talent. 2.4k heal for 16s cooldown? Reload 4 can at best get it down to 8s which is too long already.

LoboSora
02-13-2017, 12:24 PM
That is all because people are desperately afraid of "breaking the meta".

This is not OW stupid Tank Meta. Hi Rez is constantly trying to go against metas (that is why Shield braking abilities are so strong now).

Pip is an amazing support...-support-. But on hi MMR he is by no means a viable single healer. However, if you use him in the right circunstancies, as a second healer, there will be a lot of trouble for the other team.

Just look at Hi Rez finals...nobody was harrasing anyone that picked Pip, he was actually a viable target (Both teams were fighting to get him as much as they were for Fernando).

The best thing to fit Pip on any match is getting players that know how to escape the simple MMO mentality of Healers and Tanks.

Also. If you don't want to be harassed, just mute everyone and play -your best-.

Cyanian
02-13-2017, 02:26 PM
It's a terrible talent. 2.4k heal for 16s cooldown? Reload 4 can at best get it down to 8s which is too long already.

Not to mention the potential for over-healing which will count for nothing. Hi Rez really need to rethink that talent.

SandCube
02-13-2017, 03:46 PM
Not to mention the potential for over-healing which will count for nothing. Hi Rez really need to rethink that talent.

I'm also wondering why does it come with such a huge drawback, whereas Ying gets AoE heal and +30% heal from illusions without any drawbacks whatsoever. This is bullshit.

Jusey1
02-13-2017, 04:35 PM
But on hi MMR he is by no means a viable single healer.

I'm planning to fix that someday, ha-ha. I can play Pip as a single healer just fine and still win with 100k+ healing done. People prefer Ying and Mal'Damba though because they are sustain/constant healing while Pip is only a burst healer. Granted, he can still heal a lot thanks to Reload IV + Chronos combination, allowing him burst heal very often. It's still burst healing though. It usually works nicely alongside with self-sustaining healing, like Barik and his turrets for example. So that people are still getting some small constant healing but also huge bursts.

SiderumNocte
02-13-2017, 05:58 PM
I'm also wondering why does it come with such a huge drawback, whereas Ying gets AoE heal and +30% heal from illusions without any drawbacks whatsoever. This is bullshit.

Same but in all honestly I'm glad Ying will potentially have great legendary cards as healing really is the only thing she offers. She offers no CC, and no buffs like most other supports.

Maybe instead of twice the cooldown do 1.5 times or something.
I think the only other Legendary I'm really excited about is the one that gives Bomb King 80% knockback.
Just imagine how far you could fly. This will make Poppy Bomb great again.

Jhuraviel
02-13-2017, 06:09 PM
He's more of a flanker, and your teammates already know they can't really rely on his heals. There's a card that gives you 120% heal on level 4 if you heal a teammate instead. This can help you mitigate that problem

SirVeve
02-13-2017, 06:43 PM
Blame the silly best in class system for encouraging such silliness but he fine as he is.

If anything spike healing is going to have bigger impact in fights particularly when we are talking about cauterize being thrown in and the ability to break los so they dont have caut on them vs constant which wont see the same benefit from cover.

Jusey1
02-13-2017, 08:19 PM
Maybe instead of twice the cooldown do 1.5 times or something.

Actually, I have my own suggestion for Pip's healing potion. Basically, it heals 50% more (1,800 instead of 1,200) but you cannot heal yourself with it. (Gift Giver card can still heal you though).

Basically, it gives Pip a stronger potion but he has to use it to heal others, instead of himself.

NekonataM
02-13-2017, 08:55 PM
Pip's performance in the tournament was terrible. He only won once. I don't know but I still love pip, and I defeated z1unknown once (whose team "xenosy" is top1NA at the moment) playing as Pip.

SandCube
02-14-2017, 09:20 AM
He's more of a flanker, and your teammates already know they can't really rely on his heals. There's a card that gives you 120% heal on level 4 if you heal a teammate instead. This can help you mitigate that problem

I don't think you understand how the card works. Basicaly when you heal ally but not yourself you get healed for 30%*RankLvl. Which doesn't mitigate the main problem at all. Pip has his weightless for self heal and mobility.

Atilah
02-14-2017, 09:25 AM
Ying is actually 3rd best healer with Pip being second and Mal'Damba being first. Pip has a very high healing potential that can only be beaten by Mal'Damba. However, Pip's healing is based on groups, not single targets, while Mal'Damba and Ying can heal single targets (granted, Ying's clones are picky on who they heal though but they still only heal a single target).

In reality, you want to pick specific supports with specific team comps. At least these three. Grover is honestly not worth picking unless you got last pick and there is no one on enemy team that will counter Grover (Grover is the easiest support to counter and he has the weakest base healing per second in the game). Grohk is just not reliable at all as a support, despite how powerful his healing totem is. His healing totem forces people to come to him for healing or stay with him, causing the team to stay put on a single spot instead of pushing against the enemy like they should, so Grohk's healing isn't very reliable (it is also easily destroyed if placed in middle of battle unless he has a Fernando protecting it).

So really, Pip, Mal'Damba, and Ying are the only good overall supports. Ying is a great pure healer who can keep one frontline alive forever, while Mal'Damba is a great mixed support with the most powerful healing but also with some stuns to help out, and Pip is great as a versatile support, who can do many things depending on what is needed.

If you ask me, the best times to use certain supports would be as follow:

Mal'Damba - Best with Ruckus and Makoa. This basically allows for a very aggressive frontline comp style and whoever is getting healed by Mal is going to be near impossible to kill without killing the Mal first. Ruckus should be the one getting most healing since Makoa has a few means of healing himself when needed.

Pip - Best with Barik and Torvald or any 3-frontline comp. Barik and Torvald are very self sustaining frontlines. Torvald being the more aggressive one and pushing forward while protecting his allies, giving Barik a chance to set up on point. Since Barik and Torvald are very self-sustaining, Pip can focus heal the damage/flank more so than the frontline, while also providing his own damage and cc.

Ying - Any Other frontline + Torvald or Barik. Again, Torvald and Barik are self-sustaining, so having one plus a Fernando, Makoa, or Ruckus usually means that the other frontline is getting the majority of Ying's healing, and Ying's healing is very high when it is only healing a single target, giving that target very long sustainability, which the other supports cannot do.

This is why when in comp, first two picks should always be frontline. Because your support/damage/flank should be based on the frontlines that are picked.

Wtf xd

Pip is not better healer than Ying.

Valkure
02-14-2017, 09:49 AM
I think that each healer has pros and contros and that their pick is 100% situational. It depends on the team composition, on the map, on the enemy team composition and on the individual play style of all the team members.
There are team which stays grouped around the point or the payload, there are teams spammed around the whole map. There are match you can win focusing on burst damage, there are ones where the damage is constant throughout the time. It depends.
One is the only constant. Each time someone dies, the blame is always on the support u.u

Jusey1
02-14-2017, 11:01 AM
Wtf xd

Pip is not better healer than Ying.

Raw healing numbers wise, yes. Pip is. Pip can out-heal a Ying very easily. However, like I said in my post, each of those three best support works really well with certain frontlines (granted, they can work with almost any frontlines but for best results, you'll gonna want specific team comps).

Personally, I always outheal enemy Yings just fine as Pip. Only time I don't is in situations where my team is healing themselves a lot or that we are flat-out stomping the enemy, making my own healing pretty useless.

Z1R0
02-14-2017, 11:34 AM
Yes he is support, problem is many ppl announce from the getgo "I take pip as flank", and thats stupid.
not that he cant flank, every champ can, some better then others, but when heavy heals needed the player must focus on that.
I think it's more about play style, if people make sure to take champs according to need (aka look at other team and whats a good counter and/or look at your team and see whats needed), then pip is a good choice sometimes and bad some other times.
but taking pip as default is imo the wrong play.

SandCube
02-14-2017, 11:38 AM
Raw healing numbers wise, yes. Pip is. Pip can out-heal a Ying very easily. However, like I said in my post, each of those three best support works really well with certain frontlines (granted, they can work with almost any frontlines but for best results, you'll gonna want specific team comps).

Personally, I always outheal enemy Yings just fine as Pip. Only time I don't is in situations where my team is healing themselves a lot or that we are flat-out stomping the enemy, making my own healing pretty useless.

What numbers are you talking about exactly? Pip at most can heal twice in 8s as Reload card cooldown kicks in. That makes it 2400 hp*player. Ying, on the other hand has single target healing that heals 350 hp/second and can have as many as 3 at a time.

Now in actual gameplay there are usually 2 players contesting for point while others are dealing damage from afar or flanking. That makes Pip's total healing 1200*2*2=4800 over 8 seconds. Ying on the other hand does 350*3*8=8400 when she has 3 illusions, 350*2*8=5600 when she has 2 illusions. And she can keep 2 illusions up all the time with ease. Besides, Ying's illusions heal automatically with no targetting or requirement for ppl to be grouped up needed. As well as Ying has healing ultimate that heals every team member for 400/s for several seconds. So I'm sorry, I don't see how Pip is a better healer than Ying as you claim.

Besides, with legendary cards Ying will have burst healing (600 hp in an aoe per illusion) and +30% healing from illusions themselves. She will be the #1 uncontested healer. Whereas healer Pip will be no more as he gets trash legendary cards.

esroh
02-14-2017, 12:25 PM
well, if you want to heal for more don't play pip maybe. he is just a dog anyway, not a real champion.

Migrayne
02-14-2017, 02:44 PM
Pips new card should not hve such a harsh penalty. Double cooldown would make that boarderline useless.

Instead make the new card add a heal over time after the instant heal. Maybe 400 over next 4 seconds or something like that.

Whatever yings new card adds add that amount as the HOT bonus.

Spacey1
02-14-2017, 03:10 PM
The trade-off for getting bitched at for not healing much is you get to be the most powerful flanker in the game, as well as a flanker who specifically renders Buck completely irrelevant by doing his whole thing better than he does it, while also having the ability to toss a heal at an ally once in a while if you feel like it.

The other downside, though, is that to gain access to this great power, you have to be a furry. :(

Miyonala
02-14-2017, 03:22 PM
What numbers are you talking about exactly? Pip at most can heal twice in 8s as Reload card cooldown kicks in. That makes it 2400 hp*player. Ying, on the other hand has single target healing that heals 350 hp/second and can have as many as 3 at a time.

Now in actual gameplay there are usually 2 players contesting for point while others are dealing damage from afar or flanking. That makes Pip's total healing 1200*2*2=4800 over 8 seconds. Ying on the other hand does 350*3*8=8400 when she has 3 illusions, 350*2*8=5600 when she has 2 illusions. And she can keep 2 illusions up all the time with ease. Besides, Ying's illusions heal automatically with no targetting or requirement for ppl to be grouped up needed. As well as Ying has healing ultimate that heals every team member for 400/s for several seconds. So I'm sorry, I don't see how Pip is a better healer than Ying as you claim.

Besides, with legendary cards Ying will have burst healing (600 hp in an aoe per illusion) and +30% healing from illusions themselves. She will be the #1 uncontested healer. Whereas healer Pip will be no more as he gets trash legendary cards.

I thought that Ying clone only heal for 320 though. And it's impossible to get 3 clones out at once, the 3rd one will destroy 1 clone you had.

So the number is more like 320*2*8=5120, total. While Pip, even if he is only healing 2 people once every 5 seconds, will have the healing output of ~4800, and that's beside the one he give to himself by Gift Giver. That's not counting the effect of Cauterize by the way: half the time Ying heal will be reduced by Cauterize, while for Pip if you have a small window you can heal a lot more.

IMHO the reason why Ying is a powerful healer is because: she's safer (dimension link>weightless), sustained healing ensure people don't get 1-shot, while burst healing only have good number if people are near dead, risking them dying before that point, getting randomly unexpected cauterized affect Pip a lot more, and Ying clones trick Dragon Punch. I played plenty of games where I heal more than Ying while playing as Pip, and people are surprised Pip healed at all, but I picked Pip precisely to match the comp (2 front liners especially).

SandCube
02-14-2017, 04:49 PM
I thought that Ying clone only heal for 320 though. And it's impossible to get 3 clones out at once, the 3rd one will destroy 1 clone you had.

So the number is more like 320*2*8=5120, total. While Pip, even if he is only healing 2 people once every 5 seconds, will have the healing output of ~4800, and that's beside the one he give to himself by Gift Giver. That's not counting the effect of Cauterize by the way: half the time Ying heal will be reduced by Cauterize, while for Pip if you have a small window you can heal a lot more.

IMHO the reason why Ying is a powerful healer is because: she's safer (dimension link>weightless), sustained healing ensure people don't get 1-shot, while burst healing only have good number if people are near dead, risking them dying before that point, getting randomly unexpected cauterized affect Pip a lot more, and Ying clones trick Dragon Punch. I played plenty of games where I heal more than Ying while playing as Pip, and people are surprised Pip healed at all, but I picked Pip precisely to match the comp (2 front liners especially).
Sorry, thought it was possible to have more than 2 illusions with the Rewind card. But the illusions do heal for 350, not 320. So it's still 5600 hp over 8s. That do not require for your frontline to be packed within 2 or 3 units. Besides, her ultimate heals every team member for 400hps for 10s (or is it 8s?) no matter where she is herself, that's another huge and reliable source of heals.

Fact is, Ying will outheal Pip most of the time, unless she's receiving a lot more pressure. And in Season 1 she will be the god-healer seeing the treatment she's receiving.

Miyonala
02-14-2017, 04:53 PM
Sorry, thought it was possible to have more than 2 illusions with the Rewind card. But the illusions do heal for 350, not 320. So it's still 5600 hp over 8s. That do not require for your frontline to be packed within 2 or 3 units. Besides, her ultimate heals every team member for 400hps for 10s (or is it 8s?) no matter where she is herself, that's another huge and reliable source of heals.

Fact is, Ying will outheal Pip most of the time, unless she's receiving a lot more pressure. And in Season 1 she will be the god-healer seeing the treatment she's receiving.

Indeed, Season 1 will make Ying much better than Pip at healing. Still, I disagree that it is a bad idea to clump your front liners together. Unless enemy have AoE damage, it's usually fine.

Also, Ying ultimate might give her a lot more heal, but in term of power there is no way it can match Evil Mojo. You don't need to heal your team when your enemy are dead!

SnowTamer
02-15-2017, 01:11 AM
Healing 2.4k for 16s. NOT WORTH IT

SnowTamer
02-15-2017, 01:12 AM
Pip is more of an fighter then a spam heal/pocket. He has mobility, good damage and can slow. The talent cards seem to be moving him along that direction, another type of healer. That i like =)

Valkure
02-15-2017, 01:52 AM
A problem I've found with Ying is that, even with the card that let you raise the distance, you can't deploy illusions where you want. The distance is too short, notwithstanding the card.
I am in point A, want to help my tanks near me, when I see a poor Viktor dying in point B. Not so distant, but not so near. Press Q. Illusions stands 2 meters from me.
-_-'
I've tried so many times, with so many different loadouts: the distance is still derisory.

However, I think that the main problem here is not deciding who is the best healer (as I've said, it depends on situation), but the fact that 90% of people harass support champions if things go wrong.
[Ok, lately they just harass Maeves, but this scapegoat would not go on for long...]
No one wants to take the healer (I want, but usually I am the ONLY in my team: I don't have to fight for this privilege), no one cares to help the healer, but when at the end of the match you hadn't been able to heal anyone because the enemy team has targeted you, so that you've spent your time dying, you are the one everyone's blame for not healing.
"I need healing!" you hear in the chat. Yes, but I'm dead!!!
I've put this also in another thread, the one I've written for asking tank suggestions. The thing is: if you want to be healed, you have to help also your healer. If your healer is a corpse, you will get no healing. Independently from who champion is better in healing.
So, before screaming against people trying to play as a support, remember that it's not their duty to run the whole map around, just to keep you alive, if you don't help them a single second in a 1vs1, or, as it's happening lately to me, 1vs3. And I was the "1".

Enemy goes for the healer. Period.

Then, we can discuss for hours about stupid Pip who doesn't give you a single potion during the whole game, even if they are standing still, doing nothing, and in 3 we are beside him, asking for cure. But that's another story!

SandCube
02-15-2017, 09:25 AM
Pip is more of an fighter then a spam heal/pocket. He has mobility, good damage and can slow. The talent cards seem to be moving him along that direction, another type of healer. That i like =)

If that's their intention then devs should change Pip's class to flanker and make his heal a self heal. Because currently you can't build Pip to be both a good flanker and a good healer. You have to choose either path since most of his healing depends on Reload card which flankers don't need (cooldown reduction only applies when healing allies, not yourself).

In Season 1 we'll already have a god tier healer Ying. No point to have Pip as off-healer that he is now.

Migrayne
02-15-2017, 09:54 AM
They should have more then 1 viable healer. Some people may want to heal but dislike yings playstyle.
Each champ should be viable in its role. If teams are for ed to have the same 5 champs then whats the point of having so many.

Making pip a viable healer with the right cards should be possible.

Doubling the cooldown on his 1 heal is not the way to do that. Add a hot component after the initial heal to help between cooldowns.

Jusey1
02-15-2017, 10:44 AM
That do not require for your frontline to be packed within 2 or 3 units.

With a proper Healer Pip loadout, Pip's healing potion radius is about 1.5x the size of the point. So a good Pip who can throw his potions properly can easily hit multiple targets without them having be very close to each other. Plus, due to the general AOE buff from OB43, the healing potion actually hits more often than not.

While I do agree that Season 1's Ying will definably become a better healer than most Pips for sure, but she is still either getting a 30% increase in general healing or getting burst healing. I hadn't done the new numbers yet for her, so ain't sure how much of an increase she'll getting with the burst, but the basic 30% increased healing is boost her up quite a bit, but still not as high as Mal and MAYBE Pip (assuming Pip is healing 3 or more targets at a time, which he should be doing in a proper competitive play style since the only person who is separated from the main group should be the flank).

Also, since someone asked for numbers. I did the math at what each support can possibly do at maximum power in 5 minutes (basically, their healing per second calculated by per 5 minutes instead, due to how cooldowns). Mal'Damba is almost 400k with Pip being around 360k. With the 30% boost, Ying will be higher than 300k but only slightly.

Now, I generally agree that Ying will outheal Pip most of the time, though this is never the case with me. I've hadn't been outheal by Ying in a very long time (discounting matches where we stomp the enemy team. Usually the losing support gets top support because they are constantly healing while the winning support don't do much cause his teammates are barely being damaged), and I do play against Yings quite commonly.

So, yes... I am bias due to my skill as a support. I can play the main three supports very effectively. I rarely do NOT get top support no matter which one of them I pick.

SandCube
02-15-2017, 12:07 PM
Also, since someone asked for numbers. I did the math at what each support can possibly do at maximum power in 5 minutes (basically, their healing per second calculated by per 5 minutes instead, due to how cooldowns). Mal'Damba is almost 400k with Pip being around 360k. With the 30% boost, Ying will be higher than 300k but only slightly.


Apart from Pip those are not the numbers I'm getting.

I've calculated all the healers' highest potential healing done excluding self heals as they do not count towards healing stat in scores and this is what I get over the course of 300s:

Maldamba:
Mending spirits if you constantly swap targets so you get the best out of the 3s cooldown and 5s duration = 280hps*300s*5/3 dur/cd = 140,000 hp
Gourd with rank 4 Many Gourds = 280 hps*4players*5s dur*300s/8s cd = 210,000
Total healing = 126,000+210,00 0= 350,000

Pip:
Total healing with Reload 4 = 300s/8cd*4players*2400hp = 360,000

Ying:
2 Illusions permamently active = 2 illusions*350hps*300s = 210,000
Ultimate (I'm guessing you can use at least 3 ultimates within 5 minutes) = 3 times*340hps*4players*13s dur = 53,040
Total healing = 263,040

Now here things start to get interesting.

Grohk:
Totem with Rank 4 Crackle and Rank 4 Gale which roughly allows you to chain totems with 1s off-time = 520hps*4players*300s*10/11 dur/cd = 567,273 (rounded up to integers)
Ultimate = 3times*1000hps*2players*3s dur=18,000
Total healing = 585,273

Grover:
Blossom, passive heal = 80hps*4players*300s = 96,000
Blossom, active heal with Rank 4 Perennal = 1,000hp*4players*300s/10s cd=120,000
Ultimate = 3times*2,500hps*4players*5s dur=150,000
Total healing = 366,000

So we have:
1. Grohk with staggering 585,273 healing
2. Grover, a runner up with 366,000 healing
3. Pip with 360,000 healing
4. Maldamba with 350,000 healing
5. Ying with measly 263,040 healing

Kinda interesting seeing that the top 2 supports with highest potential healing are considered worst healers. But that's because perfect conditions are rarely achievable for:
* Grohk, whose totem can be destroyed in 1 to 2s by any champion, is confined to one location at a time and has huge cooldown. Whose ultimate is useless most of the time and instead gets him killed.
* Grover, whose passive and active heal needs team to be grouped up and whose ultimate usually overheals.
* Pip, who needs team to group up to get the best of his heal and reduce its cooldown.

Whereas Maldamba only slightly suffers from Gourd requiring people to group up. However, he can quite easily achieve the best conditions for Mending Spirits.

Finally, Ying has it the easiest, she can keep 2 illusions the whole time with ease and revive them in a second if things get hairy, moreover she doesn't need to target her heals and her illusions have a decent range. Her ultimate can be used back from the spawn while team is contesting on the point as well.

Hence Ying is #1 healer at the moment with Maldamba being the #2 if only heals are considered. He's considered #1 overall since he has stuns and aoe fear with ultimate. But with Ying getting such huge buffs for Season 1 I'm afraid every other support will be left in the dust of her shattered illusions.

Besides, why are you saying that Ying will be able to choose only 1 legendary card?

Schroif
02-15-2017, 12:21 PM
Pip is good on paper but not as good on practice. Yes he can theoretically achieve a great amount of healing but decent pip is seldom seen in actual game. His heals require a lot of very specific "ifs", for instance his loadout is the most effective when healing multiple targets at once, but lots of times you just have to save single ally thus your CD card doesn't kick in. Or if your ally is missing, for example, 800 health you either heal him and waste a good 300 points of your heal or don't heal him at all.

Such healers as Ying and Damba are just much more versatile and can effectively heal under any circumstances.
The other reason no one likes pip is because when you see pip you don't know what to expect. Should you take decent healer and waste the second slot? Or don't and play with little to none heal at all?