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View Full Version : Talent Cards (And My Pip Suggestion)



Jusey1
01-31-2017, 02:25 PM
http://smitedatamining.com/paladins-ob-42-datamining-maeve-new-champion-cards/

Thanks to the above data mining, we got an insight what Hi-Rez is POSSIBLY doing with the upcoming talent cards that they are adding. Now, this can be false information due to it being a data mine and all, but data mining is usually pretty spot on with information that it has gathered, so take this as you wish.

Secondly, I like to say that I am happy with what they are doing with certain cards. I have noticed that really powerful cards that already in-game are going to become Talent cards (which means new loadout cards are coming to replace them). Most note-able one is that Wormhole is becoming a talent card, and I gotta say. I like this idea because it feels like these very powerful cards were too important so making them as some possible talent cards will allow for more interesting loadouts for these characters...

And lastly, I want to make a suggestion to Pip. Since I main him and he is my most played character, I've been really curious with his talent cards and I gotta say, if this data mine is TRUE, then Hi-Rez... Please don't do the "Mega Potion".

For people who didn't read the above link, Pip's "Mega Potion" talent is going to be: "Healing potion heals for twice as much, but has double the cooldown."; and well this talent is literally worse than useless. It is actually very harmful to the character as it can easily destroy his healing output (assuming you are playing a healer Pip loadout) and even if you aren't doing healer Pip but rather you being a secondary support, you are better off with "Acid Cloud" which does the following: "Explosive Flask leaves a lingering aoe that does 150 dps."

Reason why that the Mega Potion is useless is because you can already do the exact thing that Mega Potion does, except without the "double the cooldown" negative. If you're running Reload IV + Chronos, you can easily instantly throw two healing potions before going onto a cooldown. Meaning, you're already healing double the amount when your teammates are grouped up together. Even without Chronos, you will heal 2,400 to four teammates and be on an 8 second cooldown. You do the same exact thing with Mega Potion. You heal 2,400 to your teammates and be on an 8 second cooldown (Reload IV is removing half of the Mega Potion's cooldown for you). However, if you're healing less people, you are punished more by Mega Potion then normally. Without Chronos, you'll be having around 10-14 seconds cooldown on your Mega Potion while your normal healing potion is on a 2-6 seconds cooldown. Granted, you heal 1,200 then have to wait a certain amount of time to heal another 1,200 and maybe be on a 8 second cooldown or less again.

To give you an example. If you're healing two frontlines, then your Mega Potion will have a cooldown of 12 seconds and your normal potion will have a cooldown of 4 seconds. However, since Reload IV only works once every 5 seconds, you can up your 4 seconds cooldown to 5 so that you're healing 1,200 every five seconds to your two frontlines... This means, you heal 2,400 in ten seconds while you have to wait 12 seconds to heal 2,400 with the mega potion, plus a lot of damage can be possibly delt in 5 seconds, let alone in 12 seconds, so healing more often is overall just better. So not only would you literally do more healing in the long run, but you are healing more often. This literally makes the Mega Potion a DOWNGRADE from the normal healing potion...

My suggestion? Instead of "Healing potion heals for twice as much, but has double the cooldown.", change it to "Healing potion heals 50%, but you cannot heal yourself." This strengthens the healing potion, like a talent should do, but also makes it so you cannot heal yourself normally. In order to heal yourself with this talent, you need to be using "Gift Giver". For people who don't know, "Gift Giver" is when your healing potion hits teammates but not yourself, so you gain 30/60/90/120% of the potion's effects for doing such.

This kind of talent not only will be more useful than the default potion, but it also would get more players to try out healer Pip loadouts, since they would HAVE to heal teammates to save themselves, instead of using the potion greedily. Basically turn the Talent card into a very useful card for a healing loadout only while the damage/flank Pips will be using "Acid Cloud", cause as of right now... "Mega Potion" is literally worse than useless and "Acid Cloud" is going to be the only talent I'll use for Pip until something is done.

So yeah, there's my suggestion and thoughts about Pip's talent cards... Kinda. Didn't say much about "Acid Cloud" but don't need to really. I mean, it really just more damage... Nothing else to it. you literally just do more damage, which is good.

Vampragon43
02-01-2017, 01:13 PM
Mega Potion would actually be very useful with Reload IV and Chronos. You see, the Reload card itself has a 5 second cooldown, so when you use two Healing Potions in quick succession, it goes on the normal 8 second cooldown. However, this only happens when you use the second potion sooner than 5 seconds after the first. If you wait 5 seconds after the first potion, then you get the cooldown reduction once more. Overall, this can drastically increase your healing potential, but it is hard to pull off because you can't actually see the cooldown of the Reload card.

With Mega Potion, you don't have that problem because when you have Reload IV, you can reduce the cooldown by up to 8 seconds, plus an additional 1.6 seconds per level of Chronos compared to the normal 0.8 per level.
So you would have double the healing, without having to worry about the cooldown of the Reload card. With Reload IV and Chronos 1, you can reduce the cooldown by up to 9.6 seconds per use. And that always forces a short 5 wait time between using the potion again, which guarantees that you will get the cooldown reduction of Reload every single time.
With Chronos 2, you can reduce the cooldown by up to 11.2 seconds, so after the 4.8 second cooldown of the first potion is over, you only have to wait 0.2 seconds to get the cooldown reduction again.

Repeat this, and you will double or even triple your healing as Pip.

Jusey1
02-01-2017, 02:57 PM
Repeat this, and you will double or even triple your healing as Pip.

Using 300 seconds as a based time to calculate how much healing you can do.

16*30% = 4.8
===
11.2 == 62,400
(x1) 9.2 == 76,800
(x2) 7.2 == 98,400
(x3) 5.2 == 129,600
(x4) 3.2 == 96,000
(x4 on 5) 5 == 144,000

8*30% = 2.4
===
5.6 == 63,600
(x1) 3.6 == 76,800
(x2) 1.6 == 98,400
(x3) 0 == 127,200
(x4) 0 == 127,200

16*20% = 3.2
===
12.8 == 55,200
(x1) 10.8 == 64,800
(x2) 8.8 == 81,600
(x3) 6.8 == 105,600
(x4) 4.8 == 81,600
(x4 on 5) 5 == 144,000

8*20% = 1.6
===
6.4 == 55,200
(x1) 4.4 == 64,800
(x2) 2.4 == 81,600
(x3) 0.4 == 105,600
(x4) 0 == 110,400

16*10% = 1.6
===
14.4 == 48,000
(x1) 12.4 == 57,600
(x2) 10.4 == 67,200
(x3) 8.4 == 84,000
(x4) 6.4 == 110,400

8*10% = 0.8
===
7.2 == 49,200
(x1) 5.2 == 68,400
(x2) 3.2 == 67,200
(x3) 1.2 == 84,000
(x4) 0 == 98,400

~With NO Chronos~
16 == 43,200
(x1)14 == 50,400
(x2)12 == 60,000
(x3)10 == 72,000
(x4)8 == 88,800

8 == 44,400
(x1)6 == 60,000
(x2)4 == 60,000
(x2 on 5)5 == 72,000
(x3)2 == 72,000
(x4)0 == 88,800

~~~~~~

There's the math for you. Basically, Mega Potion has a very slight use in the long-term aspect of a match where you can possibly heal more, but only if you're hitting 3 or 4 teammates on every throw. However, this is long-term. You need level three Chronos to do more healing and do better with Mega Potion. Otherwise, you're doing the exact same numbers of healing or even less in some cases for the most part.

This is also not counting gameplay mechanics where not everyone is going to need 2,400 healing but 1,200 would do just fine. Plus the fact that some people are under constant fire and needing to be healed more often, meaning requiring that 1,200 health pool more often, and many many other aspects. Let alone the fact that you will rarely hit all four of your teammates, making that long-term aspect of Mega Potion even more useless and un-viable.

So yeah, Mega Potion is mostly useless except for a very very rare chance of you managing to get level three Chronos and always be healing 3-4 of your teammates at a time, which isn't really going to happen. It's usually best to just heal two people for the most part, whom are usually your frontlines and maybe the occasional heal to your damage or flank if they need, which is where the 1,200 shines more often since you can heal a single person without barely harming your healing rate on your two frontlines, while Mega Potion will punish you harshly, plus damage/flanks are rarely gonna need a full blown 2,400 amount of healing. Usually 1,200 is enough for them to get back into battle.

Atlecx
02-02-2017, 09:06 AM
Please dont do mega potion

Rosbrac
02-23-2017, 12:40 AM
Umm... i tested it in training and it doesnt have double cooldown. Is the training rigged or...

Jusey1
02-23-2017, 11:50 AM
Umm... i tested it in training and it doesnt have double cooldown. Is the training rigged or...

They removed the double cooldown, saying that it was a typo. I honestly think (this is just my assumption) that they originally planned for the double cooldown effect on Mega Potion but after a few people, including myself, declare how useless it'll become. They decided to remove that downside and declare that it was a typo.

So basically, this thread is now useless since they removed that double cooldown.