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RogueRifler
01-25-2017, 07:29 PM
Hey, Torvald's weapon seems to go against his design. It's a very short range weapon, and yet Torvald's biggest source of shielding, his Protection ability, requires LoS to teammates. This leads to awkward moments where as Torvald you have to snap around to find a teammate to shield because you are usually in the face of the enemy. He kind of has the problem Grover has, except he doesn't have mobility to compensate.

I think Torvald would be improved if he had a plasma gun like weapon (q3). That is a fast firing projectile weapon with a projectile speed around the speed of Drogoz's rockets. To keep Torvald inline with tanks the projectiles should have falloff damage and perhaps disappear beyond a certain point. This would allow him to support and still contribute to the fight or tank on point to do more damage but do less supporting. Also, the slow on auto attack has got to go.

new2destroyou
01-25-2017, 07:47 PM
His Gauntlet is what makes him rather unique. It's not a typical weapon, they gave us something original, so don't ask for unoriginal stuff, like guns, which a lot of people are tired of.

Also, you talk about his weapon going against design? He looks like a alchemist/professor/scientist, so the Gauntlet is the perfectl invention.

RogueRifler
01-25-2017, 08:40 PM
His Gauntlet is what makes him rather unique. It's not a typical weapon, they gave us something original, so don't ask for unoriginal stuff, like guns, which a lot of people are tired of.

Also, you talk about his weapon going against design? He looks like a alchemist/professor/scientist, so the Gauntlet is the perfectl invention.

There is no fast firing projectile weapon in Paladins. Where is there any indication that there is such a consensus against that particular weapon design?

I am not talking about replacing the gauntlet. I am talking about changing it's mechanics, because it's mechanics do not fit with his kit's ability to project shields on people. It's hard to do that when he's in the other team's faces.

GaoShun
01-25-2017, 08:53 PM
There is no fat firing projectile weapon in Paladins? Ruckus gatling gun is not fast enough? or Cassie's?

RogueRifler
01-25-2017, 09:01 PM
There is no fat firing projectile weapon in Paladins? Ruckus gatling gun is not fast enough? or Cassie's?

Ruckus has a hitscan minigun (no travel time), Cassie's weapon shoots 1.3 times a second. If you don't know what a plasma gun plays like there have been multiple incarnations in quake and doom.

SnowTamer
01-26-2017, 03:13 AM
Torvaldo's gaunlet is good, its original in this game, too many guns alr

hotmatrixx
01-26-2017, 06:56 AM
I like the originality of the Character; my issus with the 'gun /glove' is the auto lock on thing. I understand why, and I like it on him; but I think that it should have a smaller cone of detection. If, as a flank, he locks onto you , you're dead. I know, there are escapes, etc; but I think auto aim weapons are a bad idea; it's like going back to LOL with click, bullets curve. SOME curve is fine; but not a 360 arc once you're locked on... that's all.

Insizer
01-26-2017, 09:26 AM
Other than the LoS shielding for allies, I think a short range attack fits perfectly. He, at least on paper, seems like a frontliner that is supposed to brawl with the enemy frontliner(s) on the capture point due to his short range disable and shield vampirism.

Atlecx
01-26-2017, 12:00 PM
There is no fast firing projectile weapon in Paladins? Ruckus gatling gun is not fast enough? or Cassie's?

Ruckus weapon is not projectile it is hitscan
Cassie's bow is actually not fast

RogueRifler
01-26-2017, 04:20 PM
Other than the LoS shielding for allies, I think a short range attack fits perfectly. He, at least on paper, seems like a frontliner that is supposed to brawl with the enemy frontliner(s) on the capture point due to his short range disable and shield vampirism.

This is my point. His shielding ability is his strongest source of shielding, not his r-click. So you're in an awkward position like grover, except you don't have mobility to transition between the two roles. If Torvald had a longer range weapon this wouldn't be as much of a problem. A longer range instalock beam seems like a terrible idea for a variety of reasons, another beam weapons seems excessive (in addition to Ying, and Grohk), I had imagined that his gauntlet firing fast magical projectiles would fit.

EpplZ
01-26-2017, 04:29 PM
Just came back from holydays, what is torvald again? oh this big slow guy which is getting dropped by BK in seconds ^^

Insizer
01-27-2017, 09:54 AM
This is my point. His shielding ability is his strongest source of shielding, not his r-click. So you're in an awkward position like grover, except you don't have mobility to transition between the two roles. If Torvald had a longer range weapon this wouldn't be as much of a problem. A longer range instalock beam seems like a terrible idea for a variety of reasons, another beam weapons seems excessive (in addition to Ying, and Grohk), I had imagined that his gauntlet firing fast magical projectiles would fit.

1.) How is his ally shielding his main source of shielding? I know I haven't played him long, but the times I have, his RMB was always superior. I'm not jumping down your throat here, I'm legit curious.

2.) His short range disable, his shield vampirism, and his role are the 3 factors (excluding his LMB) which cement him as a close range point brawler. All you've said is that his ally shielding is the sole thing that isn't. Not only that, but you said that it because Torvald has to spin around to find allies in the first place. It sounds to me that the issue is the projected shield, not his LMB's nor its range. A better fix would be "if ally not in sights, then project shield to nearest ally instead".

3.) You are right, a long range homing LMB would be bullsh*t.

4.) A beam fits Torvald because magic. And Ying doesn't really count, not if Grokk counts. Ying's LMB is not a continuous fire weapon nor has the magazine capacity to imitate it. It is functionally different from Grokk's. Frankly, Grokk's LMB is more like Fernando's than Ying's. Though, you were probably talking about what they looked like. But even then, at least to me, Ying's is more like a laser, while Grokk's is like a beam. You can say those two words are synonymous but to me a laser travels in a static straight-line while a beam is a moving, undulating arc of energy, like electricity arcing through the air. Granted, that is my opinion and nothing but semantics.

RogueRifler
01-27-2017, 10:41 AM
1.) How is his ally shielding his main source of shielding? I know I haven't played him long, but the times I have, his RMB was always superior. I'm not jumping down your throat here, I'm legit curious.

2.) His short range disable, his shield vampirism, and his role are the 3 factors (excluding his LMB) which cement him as a close range point brawler. All you've said is that his ally shielding is the sole thing that isn't. Not only that, but you said that it because Torvald has to spin around to find allies in the first place. It sounds to me that the issue is the projected shield, not his LMB's nor its range. A better fix would be "if ally not in sights, then project shield to nearest ally instead".

3.) You are right, a long range homing LMB would be bullsh*t.

4.) A beam fits Torvald because magic. And Ying doesn't really count, not if Grokk counts. Ying's LMB is not a continuous fire weapon nor has the magazine capacity to imitate it. It is functionally different from Grokk's. Frankly, Grokk's LMB is more like Fernando's than Ying's. Though, you were probably talking about what they looked like. But even then, at least to me, Ying's is more like a laser, while Grokk's is like a beam. You can say those two words are synonymous but to me a laser travels in a static straight-line while a beam is a moving, undulating arc of energy, like electricity arcing through the air. Granted, that is my opinion and nothing but semantics.


1) Math time. So if you max out recharge (2k shields every 12.5 s = 160sps) and the cards associated with it (recharge IV, vital grasp IV), you gain 2.4k shields every 10.5s = 228sps. If you max out Protection (timeshaper IV, Hearthwarder IV) you take an ability that provides 2k shields every 7s (285sps) to 2.4k shields (2000 projected, 400 to self) every 5s = 480 sps. This is huge, but you need los to teammates constantly to pull it off.

2) He is cemented as a brawler but his strongest support ability to mitigate damage requires LoS. Auto targeting the nearest teammate is a bad idea because of the short duration of the shields. Furthermore choosing when to shield allies is currently the most interesting aspect of his kit. Having an auto attack that's projectile based would give him more options when partaking in a fight and not to mention it would be more fun to use.

3) Hazah!

4) I mean you could do anything with a magic gauntlet that's falling apart. It could fire spirit animals if they wanted it to. The comment on the beam weapons was that Ying and Grohk have medium range tracking weapons and if you took away the auto aim and increased the range of the auto attack that's what Torvald's beam would be mechanically.

The motivation behind something like a plasma gun is that it is a medium to short range weapon that is naturally more effective at close range (FLs usually have mid - low range). With projectiles you can visually indicate the fall off range (bright balls of magical energy could dim as their damage decreases) which is a nice plus. There are no weapons in Paladins like it. Finally, it introduces a greater skill ceiling to Torvald which I think is sorely needed.

Insizer
01-27-2017, 12:48 PM
1) Math time. So if you max out recharge (2k shields every 12.5 s = 160sps) and the cards associated with it (recharge IV, vital grasp IV), you gain 2.4k shields every 10.5s = 228sps. If you max out Protection (timeshaper IV, Hearthwarder IV) you take an ability that provides 2k shields every 7s (285sps) to 2.4k shields (2000 projected, 400 to self) every 5s = 480 sps. This is huge, but you need los to teammates constantly to pull it off.

2) He is cemented as a brawler but his strongest support ability to mitigate damage requires LoS. Auto targeting the nearest teammate is a bad idea because of the short duration of the shields. Furthermore choosing when to shield allies is currently the most interesting aspect of his kit. Having an auto attack that's projectile based would give him more options when partaking in a fight and not to mention it would be more fun to use.

3) Hazah!

4) I mean you could do anything with a magic gauntlet that's falling apart. It could fire spirit animals if they wanted it to. The comment on the beam weapons was that Ying and Grohk have medium range tracking weapons and if you took away the auto aim and increased the range of the auto attack that's what Torvald's beam would be mechanically.

The motivation behind something like a plasma gun is that it is a medium to short range weapon that is naturally more effective at close range (FLs usually have mid - low range). With projectiles you can visually indicate the fall off range (bright balls of magical energy could dim as their damage decreases) which is a nice plus. There are no weapons in Paladins like it. Finally, it introduces a greater skill ceiling to Torvald which I think is sorely needed.

1.) Interesting, but I was talking about self-shielding, and it sounds like you were talking about combined. Miscommunication. Regardless, thank you for the maths.

2.) I don't know if you misunderstood, but I didn't mean auto-activate, I meant that when activated that selection system will kick in. I'm also not sure if that really is his strongest ability, but then again, I haven't played him long. Regardless, yes, there would be mechanical issues. Chiefly, the capability to choose the ally you shield, as you said. I'm open to other ideas that would mitigate this, but I'm not on board with completely upending his role as a close range brawler by changing one of the things that fits his combat range and role and not changing the one think that doesn't fit. Doing this will only further confuse his role and range as he'll have 2 close range abilities and 2 medium range abilities. I also like his current LMB, and not because of the homing.

HATTRlCK
01-28-2017, 06:58 AM
I actually like his weapon desing it's really cool.