PDA

View Full Version : Grover buff - Passive heal to 100?



Atlecx
01-11-2017, 08:43 AM
He's pretty bad right now because there are better healers even with two tanks. More passive heals?

MintyCoffee
01-11-2017, 08:56 AM
I contest with this. 80 health per second is pitiful, buffing it to 100 health per second would make Grover at least more viable to choose over someone like Ying who has more consistent healing with her clones - giving Grover a bit better passive healing would make him a more enticing pick.

TheZurreal
01-11-2017, 09:52 AM
Yeah, his passive does feel like it's nothing, but also a somewhat visual aura would be a nice addition too.

SiragusA
01-12-2017, 11:19 AM
Imo, the grover's bassic attack it's too high right now :(

Monstrousity
01-12-2017, 01:22 PM
His spring blossom really needs a buff atm... Pip heals for 1200 per 8 seconds,Grover heals 1000 in 10 seconds,sucks for him :/

Crasherino
01-12-2017, 01:26 PM
Seriously? you want to buff the most offensive support characters heal? he already had good AoE burst healing, his passive heal should be nothing more than a mear bonus, I would agree with buffing his passive if he didn't have an amazing gap closer/escape skill, a ridiculous cripple, the ability to actually snipe and be a threat at close range as well, and then of course having easily the strongest support healing ult in the game, if anything, he needs a nerf, not a buff.

Izekio
01-12-2017, 01:39 PM
If we are going to buff him I believe it would start at 40 or 50 per second. You got to remember that its not just him he is healing. He can heal up to 100 health per second right now if all teammates are by him. With this buff he can heal 500 per second.

ProGravity
01-12-2017, 02:14 PM
He currently heals 80 per second, not 20. The 20 that you see is a "tick" which is applied 4 times per second.

You can see a similar effect when you heal with grohk's totem, instead of 340 hp/s you will see 85 hp ticks appearing 4 times per second.

Stayhi
01-12-2017, 02:28 PM
Grover needs a small rework, hes in a weird place right now. He does damage at long range, yet passively heals short range.

I agree his natural heal (1000 every 10seconds) needs a buff. He cant throw out the heal like Pip can, making him even more short range reliant, he heals for less and has a longer cool down. I dont think one change will make him that much better or viable. He either needs to be reworked as a long range or short range support.

ArtCrusade
01-13-2017, 11:12 AM
But Grover, like any other support champion, is getting an indirect buff with OB41! The nerf to Cauterize is going to really help him sustain multiple targets at a time. His ability to threaten long range snipers like Sha Lin or Kinessa is an amazing perk that I learned to love about him. And do not underestimate his passive heals. It is a lot. I'll often outheal a Ying or Mal'Damba in my competitive matches, especially with more than one frontliner at hand.

And while it is true that Pip can be quite the bursty healer with the right setup, Pip has a much lower healthpool, can miss his Q and has a smaller effect range. Grover on the other hand has a healing aura which ALWAYS hits the targets it should be healing and the passive healing on top of that.

Effective healing is as follows:

Grover:
1000 health every 10 seconds per ally
80 health every 1 second per ally
60 seconds of healing: 6000 + 4800 = 10800 health per ally

Pip:
1200 health every 8 seconds per ally
60 seconds of healing: 7.5 x 1200 = 9000 health per ally

And don't forget that Pip is likely to not hit as many targets as Grover is, who also always heals himself as well!

I love to play the tree, but I seriously don't think he needs a rework and / or buff. The only real issue I have is that his LMB always hits shields for base damage instead of applying the distance bonus. It kinda is weird and I wonder why they did that to Grover.

tl;dr: Grover is a great support champion. Don't hate on the tree. :P

Atlecx
01-17-2017, 06:09 PM
Seriously? you want to buff the most offensive support characters heal? he already had good AoE burst healing, his passive heal should be nothing more than a mear bonus, I would agree with buffing his passive if he didn't have an amazing gap closer/escape skill, a ridiculous cripple, the ability to actually snipe and be a threat at close range as well, and then of course having easily the strongest support healing ult in the game, if anything, he needs a nerf, not a buff.

He is not a threat at close range dude. 400 damage/sec is nothing. Cripple is good, ult is good, but the snipe doesnt work well with him at all. Close range heals + long range attack is not a good formula for success

JaayTeeCee
01-17-2017, 07:08 PM
Grovers 80 heal might be useless, but his axe compensates for that with the damage. Also 80 is a lot in the long run.

Jusey1
01-17-2017, 08:22 PM
His spring blossom really needs a buff atm... Pip heals for 1200 per 8 seconds,Grover heals 1000 in 10 seconds,sucks for him :/

And that doesn't count Pip's -2s on cooldown per teammate card too, which can turn 1,200 to 2,400 or even 4,800 compared to Grover's static 1,000.

Grover's healing ability really needs some sort of buff cause right now... Most of his healing output is only via his ultimate really, and that is only if you aren't countered while using it and used it at the best times in the match.


Grovers 80 heal might be useless, but his axe compensates for that with the damage. Also 80 is a lot in the long run.

In 10 seconds. 80 is 800 in the long run, plus 1,000 from his burst heal. That is 1,800. Ying can do 8,000 (single target). Pip can do 4,800 (each target). Mal'Damba is crazy high as well, though I think everybody knows he is best.

And Grohk can do 5,200 in ten seconds with his totem (each target).

Grover has the weakest main healing ability. His ultimate is the only reason why he can possibly outheal an enemy support.


Effective healing is as follows:

Grover:
1000 health every 10 seconds per ally
80 health every 1 second per ally
60 seconds of healing: 6000 + 4800 = 10800 health per ally

Pip:
1200 health every 8 seconds per ally
60 seconds of healing: 7.5 x 1200 = 9000 health per ally

And don't forget that Pip is likely to not hit as many targets as Grover is, who also always heals himself as well!

I love to play the tree, but I seriously don't think he needs a rework and / or buff. The only real issue I have is that his LMB always hits shields for base damage instead of applying the distance bonus. It kinda is weird and I wonder why they did that to Grover.

If you're going to compare, compare correctly. Healer Grover VS Healer Pip. Pip will always win.

Grover's healing is 1,800 every ten seconds, right?

Pip's healing is 1,200 every... Actually, it depends. This is where you mess up. Pip has a very powerful healing potion card which allows him to remove -2s from his cooldown for each teammate he hits. However, to keep this simple (and not use Pip's max potential, which isn't possible. Just like Grover's max potential isn't possible)... Let's say Pip is only healing two frontlines and the damage + flank are doing their own thing. Same thing with Grover. Keeping it simple.

Since this -2s card can only activate once every 5s, it is probably better for Pip to heal once every 5 seconds. He will get -4s from his cooldown though due to hitting two teammates, which means his cooldown is actually 4s but he is gonna go by 5s. This means, he can throw two healing potions on a regular basis every 10 seconds while Grover can only burst heal once + passive healing.

This puts Pip at 2,400 compared to Grover's 1,800... Already, Pip is out-healing the Grover. However, if we're talking about a high skill team which sticks together and works together a lot... Pip will be hitting almost all of his teammates, maybe only getting 2s cooldown the first time at best (assuming he isn't using Chronos). This will boost Pip's 2,400 to 3,600 or even 4,800 if he hits all four allies... Compared to Grover's static 1,800. Grover's healing rate can only be increased by using Chronos, which bumps his cooldown down to 7 seconds. Pip can do the same thing though easily to take his basic cooldown to like 6 seconds while still getting -2s on per teammate hit, which effectively make Pip's healing even higher than before since he is almost doing 4,800 every 5 seconds...

ProGravity
01-19-2017, 04:34 AM
This puts Pip at 2,400 compared to Grover's 1,800... Already, Pip is out-healing the Grover. However, if we're talking about a high skill team which sticks together and works together a lot... Pip will be hitting almost all of his teammates, maybe only getting 2s cooldown the first time at best (assuming he isn't using Chronos). This will boost Pip's 2,400 to 3,600 or even 4,800 if he hits all four allies... Compared to Grover's static 1,800. Grover's healing rate can only be increased by using Chronos, which bumps his cooldown down to 7 seconds. Pip can do the same thing though easily to take his basic cooldown to like 6 seconds while still getting -2s on per teammate hit, which effectively make Pip's healing even higher than before since he is almost doing 4,800 every 5 seconds...

you multiplied pip's heal by number of teammates, but you didn't multiply grover's heal by number of teammates (pip is better still, but you should compare pip's 4800 to grover's 3600 when you're talking about 2 people hit by heals)

Jusey1
01-20-2017, 07:24 PM
you multiplied pip's heal by number of teammates, but you didn't multiply grover's heal by number of teammates (pip is better still, but you should compare pip's 4800 to grover's 3600 when you're talking about 2 people hit by heals)

4,800 is to a single teammate by the way (1,200 times four healing potions). If I multiple by teammates hit, it would be up to 19,200 in total (for all four teammates hit). Grover's 1,800 is 7,200 if he heals all four teammates.

Mundal
01-21-2017, 08:56 AM
His passive can be out-damaged easily and if there is lvl 3 cauterize it can wreck his ultra too, coming to his axes - he is pretty weak up close and more so if enemies have haven. Another thing that bothers me is his damage doesn't scale with distance on deployables and shields. He deals same base damage to them. So wrecker and bulldozer works well only at high level. Although i did notice that with morale boost he builds ultra like crazy, maybe a combo of long range axes and healing. But i was able to build it twice in on round easily But i usually invest in cronos to bring down blossom cd to 7 seconds.

Wallachia
01-21-2017, 09:00 AM
It's important to note that Grover too can reduce his heals in 2 seconds with cards. That would make him 1000 burst + 640 per teammate.

1640 x 4 = 6560 total. That outclasses Pip.

His axe is also meant to counter-snipe. He might deal a very pathetic 400 damage to a close-range target, but think of what happens if he hits an enemy Kinessa far away. 1,200 damage without charging nor reloading.

probests
01-21-2017, 09:09 AM
i say its fair, it depends on the way you use him actually.
but since grover attacks are long range but heal is close range i say that grover should gain 5% of passive heal to himself if he stays close for 3s.
my way of playing is slowing backing off of tanks and making ranged attacks and going close when my blossom is near cooldown completion so when i stay close i cant deal a lot of damage yet heal and take dmg so as a reward for staying close with the team i should gain 5% of my heal as well.
but thats only an opinion, but with cauterize taken away i think grover is fine as he is.

ProGravity
01-21-2017, 09:54 AM
4,800 is to a single teammate by the way (1,200 times four healing potions). If I multiple by teammates hit, it would be up to 19,200 in total (for all four teammates hit). Grover's 1,800 is 7,200 if he heals all four teammates.

in that case (double heal + wait 8s + double heal), you should also count grover's healing twice as his heal is ready again when the 10 second mark passes, 4800 vs 2800

Jusey1
01-22-2017, 01:05 AM
in that case (double heal + wait 8s + double heal), you should also count grover's healing twice as his heal is ready again when the 10 second mark passes, 4800 vs 2800

True but then Grover is only going to heal burst once in the next ten seconds and so on. He'll be able to do 2,800 during the first but then be stuck with 1,800 every ten seconds. Unless he gets Chronos, which brings down his healing cooldown to 7 seconds. With Pip, this brings his cooldown to 5.6 seconds. Let's do the map and use 300 seconds as a total amount.

With 7 seconds cooldown, he can burst heal 42 times in 300 seconds. 42 times 1,000 is 42,000 from burst healing. + 24,000 from his passive healing per second. This is a total of 66,000 per teammate. 264,000 healing in total in 300 seconds.

Pip can instantly heal 2,400 due to Reload IV and have to wait 5.6 seconds to do again. He can do his double heal-potion 53 times in 300 seconds. This will be a total of 127,200 healing in 300 seconds per teammate, which if healing all 4 teammates... That is a total of 508,800 possible healing...

So, if the most perfect scenario with both characters having the right loadout and Chronos lvl 3... Grover is at 264,000 grand total and Pip has 508,800 grand total.

Now, this is just basic heals. Grover can get more via his ultimate but that is very debate-able since how much ult-charge and when he uses it isn't a constant thing ever in itself that it's honestly hard to figure out how much more healing from his ultimates he can do. He can do 50,000 more or even 200,000 more. Who knows... Still, his base healing is so much lesser than Pip's healing potion that Grover literally becomes situational... If you pick him, it is because of his damage output and his ultimate is highly needed to counter the enemy comp-team, not because he is a good group healer... Pip is the group healer you'll want.

Also, if you want to see an actual game of me against a Grover healer?
http://i.imgur.com/E1HTaxY.png
- Well, I won... Grover got like 108k healing btw... So, I won by a landslide.

Trapboi
01-24-2017, 04:19 PM
I honestly feel like 125 would be better. Hear me out here.
You're facing a team with: Bomb King, Tyra, Ying, Makoa & Androxus. It's a Siege map, so you decide to take Blast Shields. The Androxus lovetaps you and you, as Grover, Is down to 2100 HP. You can live with that, as the healing Q would bring you up to full HP again. But, the problem Isn't on *you* with your 3025 HP or whichever It Is these days, It's on your squishier teammates. The Tyra picks Cauterize and applies It to whomever you're healing (Ruckus, perhaps? Just an example to do the calculations.)
So, he's getting focused by a Tyra with 2/3 Cauterize and a Makoa. Your passive healing Is reduced (by base of 80) down to 32. If you had 100, It'd be 40. If It was 125, It'd be 50. 50 Is still alright and might actually help your teammate survive. Furthermore, Grover should get cards that drastically increase his passive healing (Increase passive healing by 20/40/60/80.) and maybe his Q should be buffed a bit. However, I believe his axe should be nerfed down a bit. The hitboxes got sorta-fixed, but really, It wasn't close to enough. Grover spamming a corner can really do a lot of damage If you get unlucky.

SnowTamer
01-25-2017, 01:16 AM
The buff would make Grover too OP, (maybe to 90), along with the cauterise nerf that was metioned

ArtCrusade
01-25-2017, 01:24 AM
Pip CAN outheal a Grover IF your team BUNCHES UP all the time for the heals. The healing potion effective range is much, much smaller than Grover's blossom range, and thus you only heal more in THEORY. If you're not playing with premade people via Discord, I see no situation in which your numbers even closely resemble a real situation. Grover, in fact, has a much easier time healing team mates. And that is without saying how easily an enemy team can abuse your team bunching up every 5 seconds by punishing it with AoE spam like Evie LMB or Drogoz.