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View Full Version : Grover's dire need for a buff



MintyCoffee
01-06-2017, 05:38 AM
It's basically commonplace in the community at this point that Grover is that one champion that no one with any competence or understanding of team composition picks, unless you're looking to troll or be a dumb dumb. He has a nice setup, but ontop of having a counter-intuitive play style, Grover just doesn't fit the role of a healer nearly as well as every other option on the board. Let's talk about why.

Before we talk about his abilities, let's talk about Grover's weapon. His throwing axe does damage that scales up the further away you are from the enemy. Well, neat! You can be a bulky sniping axe tree thing, that's pretty cool right? Well... no, it's not. Because that gets rid of your main role, being by your allies to keep them healed up, so you either have to focus on healing, or on damaging from long range, you can't do well in both departments at once like Ying or Damba. This is why I believe the scaling aspect needs to be scrapped, and just have Grover's throwing axe do a base damage like Mal Damba's snake proj. doing a base 450. I think 400 base would be good, since you'd not be able to kill anything by yourself in only 1 or two hits, but you'd be able to SUPPORT your allies not just by the conventional healing but adding that extra bit of chip damage.

Blossom is literally the only ability that I have a problem with. It heals allies around you for 80 a second, which is really pitiful. Really, this should be upped to be more reasonable, like 100. Not 200 or anything that major, since that would rival Ying's ultimate, but something to actually give other players an incentive to be near the Grover for a time rather than just wait for self-heal. The burst of 1000 itself isn't an issue.

His vine is fine, crippling throw has no issues, and his ultimate is about as typical as you'd expect...

So obviously like everyone generally believes, Grover needs a rework in the damage department, because his counter-intuitive playstyle just makes him a terrible champion to play, easily the most obvious candidate for an under powered champion as you could get.

EvieIV
01-06-2017, 05:51 AM
grover bad in the healing department? i'm pretty sure you meant in the support role for his healing is rather great as his ult also heals

and why is he bad as support? cause grover is the best healer and there is cauterize

to be the best healer while also being balanced he needs to lose on some other aspects, which are why mal'damba and ying outshine him in the support role for their heals are decent while they are also able to do more than just healing unlike grover does, but trust me grover can be a good antisniper champ ergo he's great at low levels like viktor, and what's great at low levels but bad at higher ranks is fine because there needs to be a champion that's easy to play but not the best, unlike in smite where a character's skill cap isn't relevant to her stupidity of power

MintyCoffee
01-06-2017, 05:56 AM
That is very true, but like I said, the biggest problem is his counter-intuitive playstyle. How can you be doing any healing if you're sniping at Kinessa range? And you wouldn't pick grover just to snipe, you might as well pick Kinessa and play the same role better.

EvieIV
01-06-2017, 06:43 AM
That is very true, but like I said, the biggest problem is his counter-intuitive playstyle. How can you be doing any healing if you're sniping at Kinessa range? And you wouldn't pick grover just to snipe, you might as well pick Kinessa and play the same role better.

you don't pick grover to snipe, he is meant to COUNTER snipe

Huttmunkkeeeys
01-06-2017, 06:49 AM
Grover is one of my mains and IMO is one of the more powerful healers. The style I use as Grover is I sit behind our frontline to heal him and use my axe to harass their damage dealers. Oh, the enemy team has a kinnessa and she isn't moving while scoped? Well let me throw a couple of axes at her to get her to move. The other thing that threw me off is that you said Mal Damba has a better healing then Grover. This surprises me as the Avg. healing I see Mal Damba get is about 30K and Maxing out at about 50K a game, meanwhile Grover avg.'s about 50K and maxing out at about 140K.

With that said, I would welcome a buff and slight rework. I've heard people said that they should decrease Blossom's cooldown to about 10 seconds. I've also seen someone recommend a rework of his Blossom Cooldown card (Can't remember what it's called) to work more like Pip's Reload card. A rework of the up-scaling damage I honestly don't know. On one hand, It would be nice to do more damage to up close heroes, however losing that extra damage used to harass the enemy Kinessa. With that said, having him do 400 - 450 base damage with no downscaling due to range would honestly be better.

EvieIV
01-06-2017, 07:02 AM
Grover is one of my mains and IMO is one of the more powerful healers. The style I use as Grover is I sit behind our frontline to heal him and use my axe to harass their damage dealers. Oh, the enemy team has a kinnessa and she isn't moving while scoped? Well let me throw a couple of axes at her to get her to move. The other thing that threw me off is that you said Mal Damba has a better healing then Grover. This surprises me as the Avg. healing I see Mal Damba get is about 30K and Maxing out at about 50K a game, meanwhile Grover avg.'s about 50K and maxing out at about 140K.

With that said, I would welcome a buff and slight rework. I've heard people said that they should decrease Blossom's cooldown to about 10 seconds. I've also seen someone recommend a rework of his Blossom Cooldown card (Can't remember what it's called) to work more like Pip's Reload card. A rework of the up-scaling damage I honestly don't know. On one hand, It would be nice to do more damage to up close heroes, however losing that extra damage used to harass the enemy Kinessa. With that said, having him do 400 - 450 base damage with no downscaling due to range would honestly be better.

the average healing i see from mal'damba is 5k/minute while grover gets 7k/minute and ying gets 5.5k

Mundal
01-06-2017, 12:52 PM
Grover is one of my mains and IMO is one of the more powerful healers. The style I use as Grover is I sit behind our frontline to heal him and use my axe to harass their damage dealers. Oh, the enemy team has a kinnessa and she isn't moving while scoped? Well let me throw a couple of axes at her to get her to move. The other thing that threw me off is that you said Mal Damba has a better healing then Grover. This surprises me as the Avg. healing I see Mal Damba get is about 30K and Maxing out at about 50K a game, meanwhile Grover avg.'s about 50K and maxing out at about 140K.

With that said, I would welcome a buff and slight rework. I've heard people said that they should decrease Blossom's cooldown to about 10 seconds. I've also seen someone recommend a rework of his Blossom Cooldown card (Can't remember what it's called) to work more like Pip's Reload card. A rework of the up-scaling damage I honestly don't know. On one hand, It would be nice to do more damage to up close heroes, however losing that extra damage used to harass the enemy Kinessa. With that said, having him do 400 - 450 base damage with no downscaling due to range would honestly be better.

have been playing grover a lot lately, yes his cd of blossom needs some reduction, he becomes better when maxed out cd reduction card and maxed cronos. But maxing out cronos has some difficulties because if the enemy team has a sustained healer or heavy damage dealers you might wanna invest in cauterize early on to mitigate some healing or haven or bs to improve your survivability. Also, i noticed that he stills deals 400 dmg to deployables and shield and his damage doesn't scale with distance so yeah, that's another issue.

Mundal
01-06-2017, 01:00 PM
the average healing i see from mal'damba is 5k/minute while grover gets 7k/minute and ying gets 5.5k

how did you come up with those numbers ?

EvieIV
01-06-2017, 01:17 PM
how did you come up with those numbers ?

personal experience

Superflare9
01-06-2017, 02:57 PM
I don't know if this is just me but I agree with Mundal. When ever use almost any other character that is fast you get up by him even if he is attacking you he will be dead soon no matter who you are playing. He should be able to be more up close or something because it would be hard for healers to not be with there team and still heal. I don't know I am the only one that thinks he needs a major buff because he is somewhat weak.

XiaoJyunSLO
01-06-2017, 04:43 PM
last 2 days grover has been picked all the time in HRX expo, this is the 1st tourney since he got buffed i believe so clearly hes good since his pickrate is 3rd most picked support

the problem with grover is people dont know how to paly him and people not realizing he is insanely strong early but falls off as cauterize gets online.

Jusey1
01-06-2017, 05:30 PM
grover bad in the healing department? i'm pretty sure you meant in the support role for his healing is rather great as his ult also heals

His ultimate is the only reason why he could out heal. Without his ultimate, he literally has the lowest possible healing in the game, and honestly. The only character he is overall better than is Grohk, because Grohk's totem is overall a weak healing source while Grover is mobile and tanky. On top of that, Grohk's movement ability is terrible and Grover has a better movement ability.

Honestly, both Grover and Grohk needs a buff. Grover definably needs a shorter cooldown on his burst healing, and Grohk... He just needs reworked badly.

Mundal
01-07-2017, 04:18 AM
His ultimate is the only reason why he could out heal. Without his ultimate, he literally has the lowest possible healing in the game, and honestly. The only character he is overall better than is Grohk, because Grohk's totem is overall a weak healing source while Grover is mobile and tanky. On top of that, Grohk's movement ability is terrible and Grover has a better movement ability.

Honestly, both Grover and Grohk needs a buff. Grover definably needs a shorter cooldown on his burst healing, and Grohk... He just needs reworked badly.

Grohks movement may not be as appealing as grovers but it sure can save you from skye's bomb, drogoz's punch, BK's kingbomb and whatnot, you are basically invincible. As for grovers ultra , it can be negated by maxing out cauterize which is one of the most picked burnout in the game.

Jusey1
01-07-2017, 04:40 PM
Grohks movement may not be as appealing as grovers but it sure can save you from skye's bomb, drogoz's punch, BK's kingbomb and whatnot, you are basically invincible. As for grovers ultra , it can be negated by maxing out cauterize which is one of the most picked burnout in the game.

Being invincible for a few seconds is good, but there is no good movements. Like, compare it to Mal... Mal gives you the same kind of invincibility but you move a good amount of space, especially just with a level 1 card that increases it by 10%... You get to reposition yourself better and safely. Grohk's doesn't do that. Yes, it gives him a movement speed but it isn't as quick as Mal's slither.

Also, Grover can be negated by Pip even. Grover can turn into a chicken while using his ultimate, which makes his ultimate completely useless.... Or you could Drogoz punch the Grover even, or cauterize... And so on. Which doesn't help Grover at all. If you get Grover, it should be mostly because you don't have a Fernando. Fernando's ultimate basically does the same thing as Grover but he can't be punched to death or turned into a chicken and so on....

Not saying Grover's ultimate is bad. Against the right team comp, it is very powerful. Just saying that it does have some direct weaknesses which doesn't help him much at all. Especially since most other Support Ultimates don't have that many powerful weaknesses unless your whole team dies...

DustyPathway
01-07-2017, 05:04 PM
I have a Diamond Grover and i think he isn't too bad at all,he is in a balanced state imo. He don't needs a buff,maybe nerf but a low chance.

paigon
01-07-2017, 05:56 PM
Wrong thread lol

ThickDic
01-07-2017, 08:00 PM
i agree with you, but for a different reason. yes the axe could be seen as against his main role but thats only for people who play him that way. you coudl argue that the best way to play him is as you suggest, on field with allies and the axe damage on range is simply a bonus, not a priority.

the unfortunate thing is that noobs want to play grover in an ineffective way not that he is ineffective.