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ToryahIX
01-05-2017, 10:22 PM
Change Pip's class. He is not a support. I think a good idea is bringing back his Adhesive but make it so that it slows and heals you but it can only do one at a time. Then change his RMB to a normal damage dealer and his Q to something different. Maybe like a stun?Idk.

KicksBrickster
01-05-2017, 10:31 PM
This is the first even remotely smart thing I've seen all week. Have an upvote.

Pip definitely is not exactly a healer, and class-dependant rewards for how good you play hurt him immensely. Pip doesn't heal well, so he can't get in on the bonus credits and ult charge for healers, nor is he a flank or damage class to get those bonuses. Being the only one who doesn't fit into any class, he's screwed over all the time.

I would switch him to damage class, but keep his kit as it is now. Pip is well-balanced, so just shifting him to damage would let him take advantage of bonus credits without damaging the play style I love so much. Plus, he could still be a healer if the need arose. Pip's flexibility is his main selling point.

EvieIV
01-05-2017, 10:40 PM
pip is a support. what you're asking for is a rework, not a class change, as he is right now fulfilling what a support should do

he doesn't heal as much so what he's still a good support and if he was ever to get buffed i'd just quit playing

N3DD2028
01-05-2017, 10:55 PM
If I'm playing Fernando and got Pip as the only support, I use my "No healer" deck

Pip is a good flanker and super annoying little f***

Izekio
01-05-2017, 11:07 PM
support does not mean he is a healing only champion. His CC potion and ultimate is truly what makes him a support.

Huttmunkkeeeys
01-06-2017, 12:39 AM
What are you guys talking about? Pip is one of the best healers in the game. Granted, he's not a all round dedicated healer like Grover and Ying are, he's more of a niche healer, Only having a strong heal depending on team comp. I average about 50K-60k healing with Pip and have been able to peak at 90K. Considering the only other characters I've seen reach 90K + healing is Grover and Ying, I'd say that's pretty good.

As for the support thing, no, support is not synonymous with healing. A support is a character who help the frontline take the point. Granted, some supports do this through healing, but it's a misconception that all supports must focus healing. Pip is more of a distraction styled support, designed to harass other supports and damage class heroes. With that said, that doesn't mean Pip is a bad healer. If you put Pip on a team with 2 frontliners, he becomes a powerful healer.

Honestly, I think Hi-Rez should lower the cooldown on Pip's Reload card from 5 seconds to 4. That way, someone who is playing a heal focused Pip wouldn't have to do so much mental math to determine if he has to wait an addition second to toss Catullus in order to maximize the efficiency of his healing.

rixinthemix
01-06-2017, 03:00 AM
Just shove him and Bomb King into a fifth class called Utility, which gives them credits based on how long they inflict CC on enemies.

Knightenstein
01-06-2017, 03:13 AM
Just shove him and Bomb King into a fifth class called Utility, which gives them credits based on how long they inflict CC on enemies.

Isn't the exact definition of what "Support" means in this game?
You made me chuckle tho X'D

Extryse
01-06-2017, 04:08 AM
We all know that pip is a nice Support.... and a good Damage.... and a power Flank....
well Pip is god pip is life
#addmorelifetopipIwanthimFrontLinetoo

ToryahIX
01-06-2017, 05:00 AM
Well, because Pip is a Jack Of All Trades, he doesn't really fit into a class. So maybe utility can be an extra class idea, but I think something along the lines of All-Rounders could also be a new class idea.

LinkAkward
01-06-2017, 06:54 AM
i would say. nerf hes dmg / mobility and buff hes healing abit.

Huttmunkkeeeys
01-06-2017, 08:18 AM
i would say. nerf hes dmg / mobility and buff hes healing abit.

Pip is the 3rd best healer in the game, only being outshined by Grover and Ying. Also, SUPPORT IS NOT SYNONYMOUS WITH HEALING. IDK how many times I have to say this. If the only thing supports were supposed to do is heal, then Grohk and Mal Damba would be bad healers. However, Grohk and Mal Damba are excellent supports. Mal Damba with his stuns and point control with gourd making enemies take unnecessary damage if they want to stand on the point. And Grohk with his good survivability making him best frontline :D.

Pip is honestly good where he's at. the only slight change I think he needs is his card Reload should have it's cooldown reduced from 5 seconds to 4.

EvieIV
01-06-2017, 08:36 AM
Pip is the 3rd best healer in the game, only being outshined by Grover and Ying. Also, SUPPORT IS NOT SYNONYMOUS WITH HEALING. IDK how many times I have to say this. If the only thing supports were supposed to do is heal, then Grohk and Mal Damba would be bad healers. However, Grohk and Mal Damba are excellent supports. Mal Damba with his stuns and point control with gourd making enemies take unnecessary damage if they want to stand on the point. And Grohk with his good survivability making him best frontline :D.

Pip is honestly good where he's at. the only slight change I think he needs is his card Reload should have it's cooldown reduced from 5 seconds to 4.

if mal'damba focuses on heal he gets more than ying. i've tried it

LinkAkward
01-06-2017, 08:48 AM
support is not synonymous with healing
who the fuck cares!!! Stil lower hes dmg and mobility and buff hes heals!!

Huttmunkkeeeys
01-06-2017, 09:36 AM
who the fuck cares!!! Stil lower hes dmg and mobility and buff hes heals!!

Considering that your entire argument is based on supports doing nothing but healing, I'd say that's a strong point. The reason I said Pip is fine where he's at is because he's designed to be a distraction support. He puts pressure on enemy damage dealers to turn their attention away from your frontline and towards the Pip, adding more survivability for your frontline. Lowering his damage will lower the amount of pressure he can exert on the enemy damage dealers, nullifying his job. Taking away his mobility will make him a sitting duck. Considering he is one of the squishiest supports, he relies on his mobility to avoid insta death. As for healing, he has the strongest burst heal in the game, and under the right circumstances, one of the most powerful healers in the game.

XiaoJyunSLO
01-06-2017, 04:50 PM
Well, because Pip is a Jack Of All Trades, he doesn't really fit into a class. So maybe utility can be an extra class idea, but I think something along the lines of All-Rounders could also be a new class idea.


utility is exactly what support class is

just because 4 of 5 characters in this game are primarily healers, it doesnt mean that pip isnt a support, have you ever played something like a MOBA game?

I dont know about others but in DOTA2 most supports are based around small bursts of damage and CC (stuns and slows) using generally low cooldown abilities to SUPPORT the team

yes pip is not a healer, and the class it belongs to isnt called HEALERS, its called SUPPORT, he has insane ammount of CC and a HEX for ultimate (pretty much a signature for supports in MOBAs).

he is just not a tanks babysitter, he can howvever be built to heal more through use of loadouts and he can be beuild to slow enemies with right click all the time

XiaoJyunSLO
01-06-2017, 04:52 PM
who the fuck cares!!! Stil lower hes dmg and mobility and buff hes heals!!

people who actually like variety....currently theres basically 4 yings that play a bit differently and a pip in support class

I am sorry but people who paly supports probably dont want to have 5 healers and 0 actual utility supports

most of us dont like to be a healbot like ying and grover and orefer variety

EvieIV
01-06-2017, 05:05 PM
people who actually like variety....currently theres basically 4 yings that play a bit differently and a pip in support class

I am sorry but people who paly supports probably dont want to have 5 healers and 0 actual utility supports

most of us dont like to be a healbot like ying and grover and orefer variety

it's not 4 yings, it's 3 yings.

*waits for people to get it*

SlenderLegs
01-06-2017, 05:11 PM
nooooooooooooooo

Jusey1
01-06-2017, 05:18 PM
Anybody who thinks Pip isn't an healer is a flat-out idiot and has no idea what they're talking about. Pip has the second highest possible healing potential in the game because of how powerful his healing potion literally is.

Here is some math... How much healing can each support do in 10 seconds?

Ying's illusions does 400 healing a second. That's 800 with both being up, assuming both are up. This allows for a grand total of 8,000 healing done in 10 seconds. However, this is single target at a time only.

Grover does 80 points of healing to everyone around him per second. Plus a 1,000 healing burst every 10 seconds, which means he can only do this once. This is 1,800 healing altogether to each player, which is a grand total of 7,600 done in ten seconds. 400 behind Ying, which isn't too much (can stack as time goes on though).

Pip throws a 1,200 healing which heals all allies and has a cooldown of 8 seconds. Meaning, he can throw two within 10 seconds. This is a total 2,400 healing to all allies, which will be a grand total of 9,600 done in ten seconds, which is already more than Ying's 8,000... BUT I'm not done yet.

If you're using Reload IV as Pip, this decreases the cooldown of healing potion by 2 seconds for each teammate hit. Meaning, if you hit all four teammates, you get a second free potion. This potentially doubles his 9,600 healing to 19,200 healing in total... Which is way much higher than Ying's 8,000 healing. Now, you may think "Well that doesn't count since someone is probably flanking", which is true and even with just three teammates (two frontline and a damage) + using Chronos, since Chronos removes from the total, not the decreased number, you can still throw four healing potions in 10 seconds to heal your three allies. Doing the math, 1,200 x 3 = 3,600 and then doubling that to 7,200 for the first two potions, and doubled again for the second two potions will bring you up to 14,400...

This means, with the right team comp, a good Pip can potentially be doing around 14,400 healing - 19,200 every 10 seconds while Ying can only do a flat 8,000 healing in that amount of time...

Don't blame the character, blame the idiots using him as a flank character. Oh, and on top of that. Pip's other abilities are more useful and powerful than, let's say, Ying's other abilities. Since Pip's other abilities are powerful cc abilities while Ying literally has nothing else useful for her teammate, except destroying her own clones (thusly breaking her healing potential for a second or two) to do some burst damage...

Jusey1
01-06-2017, 05:25 PM
Pip is the 3rd best healer in the game, only being outshined by Grover and Ying. Also, SUPPORT IS NOT SYNONYMOUS WITH HEALING. IDK how many times I have to say this. If the only thing supports were supposed to do is heal, then Grohk and Mal Damba would be bad healers. However, Grohk and Mal Damba are excellent supports. Mal Damba with his stuns and point control with gourd making enemies take unnecessary damage if they want to stand on the point. And Grohk with his good survivability making him best frontline :D.

Pip is honestly good where he's at. the only slight change I think he needs is his card Reload should have it's cooldown reduced from 5 seconds to 4.

This is completely bullcrap. Healing wise, the best healers are as follow:
1. Mal'Damba
2. Pip
3. Grohk
4. Ying
5. Grover

Though this is just direct healing numbers, not overall performance. Overall, the list will be as follow:
1. Mal'Damba
2. Pip
3. Ying
4. Grover
5. Grohk

Mal and Pip are the better two cause not only they can heal more than the others, but also provide some powerful debuffs to the enemy team. Ying is 3rd place because her healing is automatic and the easiest to do. Basically, if you can't focus well on healing your teammates, you play Ying. Grohk is last cause he has the weakest movement ability in the game honestly and his healing totem is easily destroyable, and has a low radius so you can't really put it where it should be, especially if you have the payload. Grover is only above Grohk due to his healing is mobile and his movement ability is probably one of the best in the game, plus Grover can be tanky.

Huttmunkkeeeys
01-06-2017, 05:36 PM
utility is exactly what support class is

just because 4 of 5 characters in this game are primarily healers, it doesnt mean that pip isnt a support, have you ever played something like a MOBA game?

I dont know about others but in DOTA2 most supports are based around small bursts of damage and CC (stuns and slows) using generally low cooldown abilities to SUPPORT the team

yes pip is not a healer, and the class it belongs to isnt called HEALERS, its called SUPPORT, he has insane ammount of CC and a HEX for ultimate (pretty much a signature for supports in MOBAs).

he is just not a tanks babysitter, he can howvever be built to heal more through use of loadouts and he can be beuild to slow enemies with right click all the time

EXACTLY! That's what I've been trying to tell these people, but no one wants to pay attention.


people who actually like variety....currently theres basically 4 yings that play a bit differently and a pip in support class

I am sorry but people who paly supports probably dont want to have 5 healers and 0 actual utility supports

most of us dont like to be a healbot like ying and grover and orefer variety

What do you mean "4 Yings"? You got Gover and Ying, the gods of healing. Mal Damba=Perma-stun. Should I elaborate? Then you got Grohk... Grohk best frontline.

Jusey1
01-06-2017, 05:38 PM
https://youtu.be/p6FXm0Lo9XQ?t=528

And that's not even my best healing as Pip... Just something I've recorded.

EvieIV
01-06-2017, 05:40 PM
This is completely bullcrap. Healing wise, the best healers are as follow:
1. Mal'Damba
2. Pip
3. Grohk
4. Ying
5. Grover

Though this is just direct healing numbers, not overall performance. Overall, the list will be as follow:
1. Mal'Damba
2. Pip
3. Ying
4. Grover
5. Grohk

Mal and Pip are the better two cause not only they can heal more than the others, but also provide some powerful debuffs to the enemy team. Ying is 3rd place because her healing is automatic and the easiest to do. Basically, if you can't focus well on healing your teammates, you play Ying. Grohk is last cause he has the weakest movement ability in the game honestly and his healing totem is easily destroyable, and has a low radius so you can't really put it where it should be, especially if you have the payload. Grover is only above Grohk due to his healing is mobile and his movement ability is probably one of the best in the game, plus Grover can be tanky.

damage wise, the best damagers are as follow:
1. Fernando
2. Barik
3. Barik's turret
4. Flamethrower
5. Random name that's not even given some math to it

Jusey1
01-06-2017, 05:41 PM
Mal Damba=Perma-stun.

If you use Mal'Damba for Perma-Stun then you're a terrible Mal'Damba. You're literally wasting your time on stunning someone on repeat instead of healing your teammates. Stunning people occasionally is fine, but stun-locking a single target? That's bad (funny to do on your own casual time though) but you're wasting Mal's talents. He is literally the god of healing in this game and has the highest healing rate. No other character can beat his healing.

Mundal
01-06-2017, 05:44 PM
We all know that pip is a nice Support.... and a good Damage.... and a power Flank....
well Pip is god pip is life
#addmorelifetopipIwanthimFrontLinetoo

Pip just gives me the worst headache of all champs with broken ability(ies) next is drogoz's firespit combo. That pesky little bugger annoys the fuck out of me. Anytime an enemy team wins the match because of someone spams their broken ability i quit for the day, for example, the other day i was playing, there was a sha lin on enemy team who just kept spmming his q. He did something like 115K damage and singlehandedly won the match, our ruckus could barely stay on point, their rest of the team was just meh. As for now, i uninstalled the game , will see how changes occur to balance the champs, maybe ill give it a try later on.
Back to good 'ol tf2, i just love its steep learning curve, keeps away newbies from getting easy kills as opposed to paladins where a newbie even with couple of hours with Viktor or Tyra is able to shred enemy team.

Huttmunkkeeeys
01-06-2017, 05:49 PM
This is completely bullcrap. Healing wise, the best healers are as follow:
1. Mal'Damba
2. Pip
3. Grohk
4. Ying
5. Grover

Though this is just direct healing numbers, not overall performance. Overall, the list will be as follow:
1. Mal'Damba
2. Pip
3. Ying
4. Grover
5. Grohk

Mal and Pip are the better two cause not only they can heal more than the others, but also provide some powerful debuffs to the enemy team. Ying is 3rd place because her healing is automatic and the easiest to do. Basically, if you can't focus well on healing your teammates, you play Ying. Grohk is last cause he has the weakest movement ability in the game honestly and his healing totem is easily destroyable, and has a low radius so you can't really put it where it should be, especially if you have the payload. Grover is only above Grohk due to his healing is mobile and his movement ability is probably one of the best in the game, plus Grover can be tanky.

Based off my own experience, the average healing I've seen Mal Damba and Grohk do are about 30K a game with the highest I've seen at 50K. As Pip, if I focus healing, averages about 30-40k a game with the highest at about 90K. As for Grover and Ying, I see these two average at about 50K a game and the highest I've seen these 2 are at 140K.

As I've stated Mal Damba is better off focusing cc and point domination, and Grohk... Well being best frontline.

Mundal
01-06-2017, 05:50 PM
This is completely bullcrap. Healing wise, the best healers are as follow:
1. Mal'Damba
2. Pip
3. Grohk
4. Ying
5. Grover

Though this is just direct healing numbers, not overall performance. Overall, the list will be as follow:
1. Mal'Damba
2. Pip
3. Ying
4. Grover
5. Grohk

Mal and Pip are the better two cause not only they can heal more than the others, but also provide some powerful debuffs to the enemy team. Ying is 3rd place because her healing is automatic and the easiest to do. Basically, if you can't focus well on healing your teammates, you play Ying. Grohk is last cause he has the weakest movement ability in the game honestly and his healing totem is easily destroyable, and has a low radius so you can't really put it where it should be, especially if you have the payload. Grover is only above Grohk due to his healing is mobile and his movement ability is probably one of the best in the game, plus Grover can be tanky.

Based on healing figures grover and damba are the best, if you do the entire math about how much they heal/minute (just raw numbers without any loadout cards) including all their abilities (except ultras).

Jusey1
01-06-2017, 06:01 PM
Based off my own experience, the average healing I've seen Mal Damba and Grohk do are about 30K a game with the highest I've seen at 50K. As Pip, if I focus healing, averages about 30-40k a game with the highest at about 90K. As for Grover and Ying, I see these two average at about 50K a game and the highest I've seen these 2 are at 140K.

As I've stated Mal Damba is better off focusing cc and point domination, and Grohk... Well being best frontline.

You need to get good. I average around 100k healing as Pip, Ying, and Mal'Damba. My highest as Pip was 144k, with Mal was 176k, and Ying is around 137k. I think my lowest healing done as anyone is really only around 80k.

No offense, but you are probably a low skill healer, I'll be honest, or been playing with low skill healers. The only reason why Ying or Grover can get more healing done is because they easier to heal, and they used their ultimates at a good timing where everybody is taking a huge amount of damage... That's about it. Easiest to heal with and good ultimate timing.


Based on healing figures grover and damba are the best, if you do the entire math about how much they heal/minute (just raw numbers without any loadout cards) including all their abilities (except ultras).

Grover is the weakest based on healing figures. No ultimates is being counted and without his loadout card, he is made even weaker. His heal has a 12s cooldown, 10s with the card. With allows Grover to heal 1,800(x4) every 10 seconds, that is the highest he can go without using his ultimate.

Pip can heal 4,800(x4) in that same amount of time.
Ying can heal 8,000(x1) in 10 seconds.

And so on.

Mal'Damba is the best by far, but Grover is easily the weakest when it comes to healing. Do the math properly.

EvieIV
01-06-2017, 06:09 PM
You need to get good. I average around 100k healing as Pip, Ying, and Mal'Damba. My highest as Pip was 144k, with Mal was 176k, and Ying is around 137k. I think my lowest healing done as anyone is really only around 80k.

No offense, but you are probably a low skill healer, I'll be honest, or been playing with low skill healers. The only reason why Ying or Grover can get more healing done is because they easier to heal, and they used their ultimates at a good timing where everybody is taking a huge amount of damage... That's about it. Easiest to heal with and good ultimate timing.



Grover is the weakest based on healing figures. No ultimates is being counted and without his loadout card, he is made even weaker. His heal has a 12s cooldown, 10s with the card. With allows Grover to heal 1,800(x4) every 10 seconds, that is the highest he can go without using his ultimate.

Pip can heal 4,800(x4) in that same amount of time.
Ying can heal 8,000(x1) in 10 seconds.

And so on.

Mal'Damba is the best by far, but Grover is easily the weakest when it comes to healing. Do the math properly.

i still dont get why you pullin numbers out ur ass and dont get either why you ranked ying as 4th healer but then she does 8k over pip's 5k

Jusey1
01-06-2017, 06:21 PM
i still dont get why you pullin numbers out ur ass and dont get either why you ranked ying as 4th healer but then she does 8k over pip's 5k

She does a flat 8k healing to a single target while Pip's 4,800 is to all targets, which quads the number up to a total of 19,200.

Which is better? 8,000 to a single target at a time or 19,200 spread out to all your teammates? Technically, it depends on the situation but if we're talking about pure healing numbers... This puts Ying at 4th place.

I'm also not pulling numbers out of my ass. I'm pulling them from the game.

~Edit~

On a side note, Pip's healing potions will heal himself too, so there is a bonus 4,800 self-healing as well, while Ying's illusions will have to waste a second to heal Ying if she takes damage, meaning the 8,000 total healing is also including self-healing.

Huttmunkkeeeys
01-06-2017, 07:08 PM
You need to get good. I average around 100k healing as Pip, Ying, and Mal'Damba. My highest as Pip was 144k, with Mal was 176k, and Ying is around 137k. I think my lowest healing done as anyone is really only around 80k.

No offense, but you are probably a low skill healer, I'll be honest, or been playing with low skill healers. The only reason why Ying or Grover can get more healing done is because they easier to heal, and they used their ultimates at a good timing where everybody is taking a huge amount of damage... That's about it. Easiest to heal with and good ultimate timing.

When I say "from my own experience" I don't mean what I've been able to hit. I haven't even played Mal Damba before. What I meant by it is from the games that I've played, those were the numbers I saw. And yes, "On paper" Mal Damba is the best healer, but in practice, he is played as more of a utility support then dedicated healer. Also I will admit, I'm not the best player of the game either, but I do have 100+ hours in game and have played about 200 games. Also, if you're in a party, then yes, it's easy to hit 100K+ healing, That's how I was able to get Grover to 140K healing. The only reason I've been able to get Pip up to 90K healing is because I played a game where we had most of our team standing on the point, so I was able to pop healing quite often. However, in most games, it's quite rare to see 2 allies sitting close together to benefit from Reload.

Also, in a lot of the Comp. games I've played, people tend to get mad if they need a dedicated healer and you decide to Mal Damba or Pip. I've played games where we had players who decided to stay in spawn to bitch and moan about how I picked Pip and that Pip is a crappy healer instead of playing the damn game.

Jusey1
01-06-2017, 07:27 PM
Also, in a lot of the Comp. games I've played, people tend to get mad if they need a dedicated healer and you decide to Mal Damba or Pip. I've played games where we had players who decided to stay in spawn to bitch and moan about how I picked Pip and that Pip is a crappy healer instead of playing the damn game.

I kinda don't have that problem because I'm a diamond Pip. It seems when you're Diamond, people are less likely to bitch and moan about your choice. And if I'm going Mal, I'll show off my Pip before switching to Mal to let people know they can trust me. My Mal is currently only Platinum, granted, I almost always get top support and all but... My luck with teammates has been bad, especially recently. Getting 100k+ healing means nothing if no one on your team can do 50k+ damage.

Also, I kinda have 1,000+ hours experience when it comes to healing... I'm a Medic Main in Team Fortress 2. Though honestly, Mal'Damba is probably the closes thing to Ze' Medic, but since I always enjoy that healing role, it is what I'm best at and can do really good as with almost any healing based character. Which is why my average healing in good long games has always been so high. I have a lot of experience on my back.

Huttmunkkeeeys
01-06-2017, 08:42 PM
I kinda don't have that problem because I'm a diamond Pip. It seems when you're Diamond, people are less likely to bitch and moan about your choice. And if I'm going Mal, I'll show off my Pip before switching to Mal to let people know they can trust me. My Mal is currently only Platinum, granted, I almost always get top support and all but... My luck with teammates has been bad, especially recently. Getting 100k+ healing means nothing if no one on your team can do 50k+ damage.

Also, I kinda have 1,000+ hours experience when it comes to healing... I'm a Medic Main in Team Fortress 2. Though honestly, Mal'Damba is probably the closes thing to Ze' Medic, but since I always enjoy that healing role, it is what I'm best at and can do really good as with almost any healing based character. Which is why my average healing in good long games has always been so high. I have a lot of experience on my back.

And that's the difference. You spent most of your time focusing on one particular class, where I'm more willing to play many different classes and not mastering in any one particular class. I still haven't figured out the whole ranking thing, heard that if a character hit 4000+ ranking they are suppose to become diamond, but the highest I've gotten Pip is a little over 4k, I think about 4037, until I hit a massive loosing streak and my ranking plummeted to the ground.

ToryahIX
01-06-2017, 11:34 PM
After reading the smart comments on this post, i've changed my mind
The top Support List is definetly
1. Mal
2. Pip
3. Ying
4. Grover
5. Grohk

But the person who said that pip can do more healing than Ying, yes he technically can, but thats if he stays near the tank almost 24/7. Ying is a better healer, she just needs to put down illusions next to a tank and can quadruple her healing if she puts down 4. That far exceeds pip's healing abilities. Wasting cards on his healing is bad, the top Pip players don't use pip's healing sets, you calling them dumbasses?

Jusey1
01-07-2017, 12:02 AM
And that's the difference. You spent most of your time focusing on one particular class,.

I can do pretty well as more than just Support. Support is just my favorite and most played. For example, I can be a tough Fernando is I need to be. I can also be a very mean and nasty Drogoz. I also got to diamond as Bomb King and Buck too.


you calling them dumbasses?

I'm probably being bias cause of the whole Battle Medic ordeal from Team Fortress 2, so yeah. But I gotta ask... How can Ying place 4 clones? I'm diamond as her and you can only have two clones up at a time. Placing a 3rd will destroy the 1st one... There's no card to increase her clones amount last I check. So I am utterly confused on how Ying can possibly have four clones up.

Mundal
01-07-2017, 03:49 AM
Grover is the weakest based on healing figures. No ultimates is being counted and without his loadout card, he is made even weaker. His heal has a 12s cooldown, 10s with the card. With allows Grover to heal 1,800(x4) every 10 seconds, that is the highest he can go without using his ultimate.

Pip can heal 4,800(x4) in that same amount of time.
Ying can heal 8,000(x1) in 10 seconds.

And so on.

Mal'Damba is the best by far, but Grover is easily the weakest when it comes to healing. Do the math properly.

That's why i said remove the loadout cards and calculate raw healing figures,

Grover 1000x4 every 12 sec + 800x4 every 10 sec > Pip 1200x4 every 8 seconds. (and calculate output per minute)
I know there is a card for pip that reduces cd of flask if hit allies but we are leaving all loadout cards (maybe that's how you got 4800x4)

Ying deals 350 / sec / illusion so that comes to 700 /s roughly (ying can sustain her healing by illusions throughout so duration of illusions don't matter but if you want to be more accurate the we will have to take into account the time taken for second illusion deployed since it takes 5 second cd to redeploy next illusion also illusions last 8 seconds so,first illusion will expire and there will be still 2 seconds before you can redeploy another illusion that would give less healing that straight up 7000/10sec)

Damba is best i agree since his snake and gourd both heals 280/s i'm not sure about the cd times but i think its 4 and 10 (will have to check the duration too)

zVersee
01-07-2017, 03:57 AM
Problem with pip's healing is that cauterize really destroys it. Whenever I play em I usually use decks focusing on his debuffs (slows, RMB) since most people don't use resilliance.


You need to get good. I average around 100k healing as Pip, Ying, and Mal'Damba. My highest as Pip was 144k

Also, got any healing advice with pip? I've been playing pip with great healing decks (reload IV etc) as the only healer on our team, with two tanks and I usually average at around 50-70k heals (my record being around 90k). I just don't see a way to average 100k especially because of cauterize's strength.

EvieIV
01-07-2017, 05:17 AM
She does a flat 8k healing to a single target while Pip's 4,800 is to all targets, which quads the number up to a total of 19,200.

Which is better? 8,000 to a single target at a time or 19,200 spread out to all your teammates? Technically, it depends on the situation but if we're talking about pure healing numbers... This puts Ying at 4th place.

I'm also not pulling numbers out of my ass. I'm pulling them from the game.

~Edit~

On a side note, Pip's healing potions will heal himself too, so there is a bonus 4,800 self-healing as well, while Ying's illusions will have to waste a second to heal Ying if she takes damage, meaning the 8,000 total healing is also including self-healing.

and why does pip throw 4 healing pots in 10 seconds? hacks?

SijanYoshio
01-07-2017, 06:56 AM
you guys calculate it like you would get a full teamheal every time you use the healskill xD

EvieIV
01-07-2017, 07:00 AM
you guys calculate it like you would get a full teamheal every time you use the healskill xD

ikr typical pip mains

zVersee
01-07-2017, 09:45 AM
you guys calculate it like you would get a full teamheal every time you use the healskill xD

It's calculating the maximum healing potential, but I see your point. :rolleyes:

EvieIV
01-07-2017, 10:05 AM
It's calculating the maximum healing potential, but I see your point. :rolleyes:

yeah a maximum that you will never get

Jusey1
01-07-2017, 04:22 PM
Problem with pip's healing is that cauterize really destroys it. Whenever I play em I usually use decks focusing on his debuffs (slows, RMB) since most people don't use resilliance.

Also, got any healing advice with pip? I've been playing pip with great healing decks (reload IV etc) as the only healer on our team, with two tanks and I usually average at around 50-70k heals (my record being around 90k). I just don't see a way to average 100k especially because of cauterize's strength.

Cauterize is deadly to all support. Mal, Ying, Pip, etc. It only seems "extra deadly" to Grover and Pip due to them being burst healers. However, as for tips of getting more healing as Pip...

My biggest tip is know when to throw a healing potion. Don't just throw them when you feel like but take note of everything that is going. Same thing with Grover's burst healing. Releasing the burst constantly whenever you can is not recommended, try to get a hold somewhere. Get into a good spot near or on the objection. If you have a good hold, then take note of who is using cauterizing and when your allies are under the effect. If you're working with a team, this is much easier. For example, cauterize doesn't get applied if it hits a shield so if you have a Makoa or Fernando, and they need healing yet are under the effects. Have them bring up their shields and wait for those two seconds before burst healing your allies.

If you truly need to heal people while under the effects, make sure that your team is out-damaging the enemy team or else your little heal will mean nothing. If they aren't out-damaging, try to get them to retreat and defend away, giving you a chance to heal everybody up.

And so on. The only time I recommend using your healing potion constantly if you're winning and pushing really hard, since in that situation your team doesn't need the huge amounts of healing, they just need to be healthy. Also, always try to hit at least two people and don't be afraid of healing only squishyz. Being able to heal instantly two damage characters from half health to full can be very devastating to the enemy team.

Weightless can be used to give you a height advantage not just above enemies but also above allies. You can actually cancel the Weightless ability while in mid-air, this giving you a huge aerial range above the point or other important areas, giving you a good chance to jump into your teammates, while throwing a healing potion down. You can also do this with Pip's ultimate. Jumping up and down into the enemy group, canceling your Weightless and letting out your ultimate from the sky allows for a higher chance of a full team chickened.

And so on. I also recommend using Chronos. That'll help a lot with almost any Support. It's only NEAR useless for Ying.

Jusey1
01-07-2017, 04:27 PM
and why does pip throw 4 healing pots in 10 seconds? hacks?

Reload IV + Chronos combination. Since it isn't possible to hit all 4 teammates at any given time, unless you're in a 3/4 v 3/4 situation. However, hitting 3 teammates is highly possible. This will bring down your cooldown from 8 seconds to 2 seconds, but with Chronos, this'll be less than 1 seconds because the -6s from your cooldown is getting removed AFTER the Chronos effect.

So you can throw two healing potions easily in 1 second, and then wait for 7 seconds to throw two more. Four in total within 10 seconds.


you guys calculate it like you would get a full teamheal every time you use the healskill xD

True, but it is more calculating how strong Pip's healing can be and usually, you should be healing at least 3 teammates at a time if you're playing the game competitively, since the only teammate who should be on their own is the flank.


yeah a maximum that you will never get

Ying can do like 235k healing in 5 minutes but that will never happen. Now will it? It isn't about always getting that high, it is more about knowing how powerful something is and trying to reach that impossibility. Learning to do your best and find the best way to reach that high. It's what gets us to ever get better in a game. Knowing the highest is the first step of aiming for it.

zVersee
01-07-2017, 06:52 PM
And so on. I also recommend using Chronos. That'll help a lot with almost any Support. It's only NEAR useless for Ying.

Ah yes, I think that's what I haven't paid enough attention to. Never really been building any yellow (utility) items when played em. Thanks, I'll keep it in mind!

RyoStarK
02-07-2017, 04:05 PM
Change Pip's class. He is not a support. I think a good idea is bringing back his Adhesive but make it so that it slows and heals you but it can only do one at a time. Then change his RMB to a normal damage dealer and his Q to something different. Maybe like a stun?Idk.

Woot ? :cool: Pip is a great all rounder, the only thing wrong with him is those flamer guys that have no idea how Pip works and cry for healing all the time.

http://i.imgur.com/XPv0Jem.jpg (http://imgur.com/XPv0Jem)

Spacey1
02-07-2017, 04:09 PM
Pip is a flanker who infiltrated the support ranks. That sneaky fox!

WunderwaffeCZ
02-07-2017, 07:09 PM
Pip needs hitbox increase, other ways is OK.

Jusey1
02-08-2017, 10:33 AM
Pip is a flanker who infiltrated the support ranks. That sneaky fox!

No, he's a support who can do healing or cc/damage just fine. The flanker Pips are just Pips using a damage/cc based build. Most Pips are just too lazy to do a proper healer Pip.

Spacey1
02-08-2017, 12:31 PM
No, he's a support who can do healing or cc/damage just fine. The flanker Pips are just Pips using a damage/cc based build. Most Pips are just too lazy to do a proper healer Pip.

In all fairness, it's hilarious chasing Buck down, going toe-to-toe with him, and wrecking him because Pip is better than him at his own thing in every way.

SandCube
02-08-2017, 02:12 PM
Pls change Pip to flanker or w/e. I'm about sick of the flanker Pips in my team with sub 1k healing throughout the whole match.

Jusey1
02-08-2017, 06:32 PM
In all fairness, it's hilarious chasing Buck down, going toe-to-toe with him, and wrecking him because Pip is better than him at his own thing in every way.

Yes, and No. If you don't get Cauterize, you will lose against Buck ten times out of ten. Buck can actually self heal more than Pip (with the right loadout), use his mobility more often (by default), and can deal more direct damage than Pip (by default).

ToryahIX
02-10-2017, 03:34 AM
Damn, didn't even know this thread kept on getting comments lol. Anyways, no I have defeated many a buck without cauterize, even with the buck having the 40% lifesteal during recovery. Because pip has a card that gives him 10 percent life sreal, already upgraded it to two and applies when you get slowed, which bring me to the fact that there is only 0.25 seconds in which he is not slowed. And I can chase after him any time I want plus splash damage. Pip also does more damage than buck and his healing is instant than over time.

Spacey1
02-10-2017, 07:00 AM
Yes, and No. If you don't get Cauterize, you will lose against Buck ten times out of ten. Buck can actually self heal more than Pip (with the right loadout), use his mobility more often (by default), and can deal more direct damage than Pip (by default).

No he can't. Pip has a card that can reduce the cooldown on Weightless by 1 second per level (by contrast, Leg Day only gets Buck down by .5 seconds per level on his F). Pip also has another card that adds a heal over time onto Weightless, which if you take that to max as well gives him an additional 600 heal over 3 seconds, now available every 6 seconds. He can then rotate this and his healing potion (1200 heal) on its 8-second cooldown back and forth, gaining more constant, guaranteed healing than Buck can ever hope to achieve.

And like ToryahIX said, it's actually Pip who does more damage, not Buck ... plus it's an AE, so it's easier to land. His slow even lasts longer than Buck's does! Furthermore, if Pip wants Cauterize, he actually has room to go into it. Buck, with his ludicrous reload, is really looking hard at getting reload speed improvements instead in order to suck less.

Basically, Pip has the flexibility to build as a full support or to build as a flanker, but when he builds as a flanker, he genuinely outclasses Buck in virtually every way at exactly the kind of flanking Buck does.

Spacey1
02-10-2017, 07:06 AM
Damn, didn't even know this thread kept on getting comments lol. Anyways, no I have defeated many a buck without cauterize, even with the buck having the 40% lifesteal during recovery. Because pip has a card that gives him 10 percent life sreal, already upgraded it to two and applies when you get slowed, which bring me to the fact that there is only 0.25 seconds in which he is not slowed. And I can chase after him any time I want plus splash damage. Pip also does more damage than buck and his healing is instant than over time.

Oh, interesting ... so instead of doing what I did, you went for heavy Explosive Flask cooldown reduction and then tacked life steal onto it. I do the Weightless/heal over time thing instead and just buy life steal in the matches themselves, but your build sounds interesting. I might try it sometime when I feel like playing Pip instead of Ying. :)

ToryahIX
02-10-2017, 06:54 PM
Oh, interesting ... so instead of doing what I did, you went for heavy Explosive Flask cooldown reduction and then tacked life steal onto it. I do the Weightless/heal over time thing instead and just buy life steal in the matches themselves, but your build sounds interesting. I might try it sometime when I feel like playing Pip instead of Ying. :)

Yes and No. I used to have max explosive flash(and I will always have that) and max lifesteal, but have reduced it to 20% because of the weightless card to increase the amount of time for it, making it only 6 seconds so I can use it for offence more, as I also get life rip which can cover up for the missing 20%. Then I make it so that there's .25 seconds in where the character isn't slowed and when I slow him, I gain one extra ammo so when I'm reloading, I can get that one shot off. I'll list the cards here:

Side Tanks IV, From Above IV, Acumen II, Graviton I, Guile I.