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Krombo
12-07-2016, 06:43 AM
Drogoz and Bomb king both crippled in one patch.
Nobody complained about drogoz being too fast only people whined about spamming fire spit.
Nobody complained about BK mobility jumping around the map with poppy bomb only people whined about themselves being sent off the map.

why is Hirez hellbent on removing the "fast paced" aspect from the game and limiting player creativity and skill cap?

EpplZ
12-07-2016, 11:57 AM
Holy crap I didnt try the latest patch yet but from what I read it'll be bad...

What'sup with BK, you cant fly across the map like before? I mean the fix on jolt I agree but self knockback has been reduced??

Izekio
12-07-2016, 12:13 PM
Because these fast pace elements where not suppose to be their in the first place. These where actually bugs that people where exploiting.

Vampragon43
12-07-2016, 12:17 PM
I think that BK's "nerf" is actually a bug.
What they nerfed was the Jolt card, which basically used to send enemies flying into space for seemingly no reason.
I think that in order to fix the problem, they changed how Poppy Bomb's knockback works, and a bug ensued that greatly reduced his self-knockback from Poppy Bomb.

It seems like a bug to me because even though the vertical self-knockback is much less than before, the horizontal self-knockback remains the same.

I don't know for sure, but I'm assuming it is a bug; similar to a bug that happened a few patches ago, when Skye's Poison Bolts strangely shot one poison bolt instead of three, until they later fixed it to properly shoot three bolts.

EpplZ
12-07-2016, 12:58 PM
Yeah I hope that fast traveling with BK will remain the same

EpplZ
12-07-2016, 12:59 PM
Because these fast pace elements where not suppose to be their in the first place. These where actually bugs that people where exploiting.

I fail to see how BK self knockback was a bug, and HireZ never claimed it was... I'm here to play a fps, not chess...

KicksBrickster
12-07-2016, 01:52 PM
It seems like most of the 'nerfs' people are complaining about are bug fixes. Jolt was applying incorrectly (and you can't tell me that self-knockback wasn't too damn high), Drogoz speed was being exploited, and other champions had bug fixes as well.

My take on it is that if you were relying on bugs to do well as a certain champion, then you're going to artificially boost the numbers so that they appear better than they are. By fixing the bugs we now see how these champions are supposed to work in their 'normal' states. With that knowledge, Hi-Rez can actually go about fixing the problem.

Krombo
12-07-2016, 02:23 PM
It seems like most of the 'nerfs' people are complaining about are bug fixes. Jolt was applying incorrectly (and you can't tell me that self-knockback wasn't too damn high), Drogoz speed was being exploited, and other champions had bug fixes as well.

read the first post again

1-BK self knockback was only too high with card Lv4 as it should be but now you can't even reach higher platforms, let alone without the card.
2-People crying about drogoz always complain about the double fire spit not his speed no one had problems with his flying which is why i made this thread.

"fixing" those kind of bugs is like fixing rocket jump in TF2 none of this caused real imbalance or advantage over other classes (like cassie the terminator) and only kills any semblance of class uniqueness.

EpplZ
12-07-2016, 02:36 PM
Yup, the whole point of mobility is to acces remote areas and use it as an advantage, how is it a glitch if anyone can use it? Not mentionning it wasnt that hard to get this done with BK, it's not like you had to practice 200h with him to be able to travel on platforms

All it does is removing the fun and fast pace on an already slowish game.

esroh
12-08-2016, 06:18 AM
did they actually nerf self knockback?

Azurion
12-08-2016, 08:25 AM
That drogoz had to be taked down in someway, he was too overpower, and could surf on the ground to 720 mouvement speed (Propel give 100% mouvement forward and it seems that all champ base mouvement is 360 so 360x2=720) the next one i hope its a cassie nerf wich your ability dosnt reset your auto attack, so it makes the combo more skilled for the same amount of damage and give oppenant more chance against her since she can drop 2100 damage in less than 1 sec lol.Also they nerf champion based on low elo, wich mean a lvl 20 can deceide how the game goes , there is some champion that got take down due to cusual games *hurm* *hurm* (skye)/(ying). all those user have less fun now cause of that weird balance system and lets not talk about competitif scene its a joke in a kinder suprise

RogueRifler
12-08-2016, 12:24 PM
That drogoz had to be taked down in someway, he was too overpower, and could surf on the ground to 720 mouvement speed (Propel give 100% mouvement forward and it seems that all champ base mouvement is 360 so 360x2=720) the next one i hope its a cassie nerf wich your ability dosnt reset your auto attack, so it makes the combo more skilled for the same amount of damage and give oppenant more chance against her since she can drop 2100 damage in less than 1 sec lol.Also they nerf champion based on low elo, wich mean a lvl 20 can deceide how the game goes , there is some champion that got take down due to cusual games *hurm* *hurm* (skye)/(ying). all those user have less fun now cause of that weird balance system and lets not talk about competitif scene its a joke in a kinder suprise

I mean Barrik still has Accel Field IV, 100% speed for 3sec on anyone who touches it. 100% speed isn't unheard of.

I guess the general question is if Paladins wants to be a high speed game like ob38 or is it transitioning into a low speed game. Drogoz and BK barely have escapes now. If we saw Cassie get nerfed to be a low speed character as well (no dodge resets) that would be the last of the high mobility dps characters. These nerfs don't feel like fine adjustments like nando, these feel like massive changes that effect the entire pacing of the game.

GenericRarity
12-08-2016, 03:01 PM
One Thing i learned about this game is HiRez wants every hero to be the jack of all trades.
There's no special snowflake no sirree, we wouldn't want our champions to have an ability that stands out from the crowd. it's why kinessa sucks at sniping, rukus' miniguns are shit, evie's ice block is pointless, pip is an embarressing healer, drogoz is getting nerfed (Drogoz is literaly THE MOST balanced champion IMO, followed by Buck)

MasterTeisel
12-08-2016, 03:15 PM
Since the day I joined this community, I've only seen the champions becoming more and more boring. Every vestige of creativity ends up being eliminated to foster a robotic style of play.

Sh4DowBurN
12-08-2016, 03:17 PM
Carnivore! Carnivore
Won’t you come digest me?
Take away everything I am
Bring it to an end
Make me fall. Make me bleed
Go ahead and change me?
Take away everything I am
Everything I am

This is just like i fell after playing the nerfed drogoz.

Even bugzy, top 1 drogoz, one of the best players in general at EU sayed :" Absolutely anything can work in pub games but if you play drogoz in high level ranked or scrimms you are just a sitting duck, really easy to dive onto and you can't escape from it because well... Entire mobility was removed"

So yeah, they ruined a fun and consistent character. Here's a text exposing the whole situation >

Here's the change in action, before and after. https://vid.me/Irct (made by Rude I believe)
As you can see, there is a huge difference. The problem with this change is that it's nerfing what keeps Drogoz viable rather than nerfing what makes him overpowered (if you would even consider him overpowered).
Let's take a look at Pharah from Overwatch as comparison, as I know her well and was a top 500 ranked season 1 Pharah main. I know you guys don't like Overwatch comparisons, but it's too relevant to ignore. Pharah is slow in the air and super vulnerable because of it. She requires use of her concussion grenade to gain speed and it falls off very fast like the Drogoz nerf. The only times she is ever a strong character are dependent upon other balance issues, like McCree being undertweaked and Mercy being a meta pick so that she can pocket the Pharah all game. If Drogoz ends up more like Pharah, he stands to be even worse because his rockets are considerably slower and he has no pocket medic to save him from the Androxuses, Viktors and others hitscan champs.
When I do see people complain about Drogoz, it's usually about his ultimate or his spit combo. His ultimate has very little counter-play even after the nerf , and his spit combo has a lot of damage, range, and knockback. These are the areas that should be getting tweaked if Drogoz needs any nerfs at all.

This text is not mine, but it exposes exactly what a lot of drogoz players thinks. And that's just the deal, you don't let a champion function for 6 months then nerf and pull up the "it was never intended like that" card. Of course you still do great on pubs, but in competitive scenario is not viable anymore. He was already countered by hitscan enemies, now is way easier to take him down. The mobility was the sole thing keeping him alive and maintaining the fun. With the current speed reduction, even Cassie for example will land ALL of her shots within 2 seconds and kill you.

SkyFyre420
12-09-2016, 06:23 PM
I fully agree with OP.

I have noticed a consistent trend of watering down certain champion's exceptional abilities instead of improving others'.
See: Skye Ult, Ying illusion, BK poppy, evie ice/blink, Drogoz flight, fern shield, barik turrets, etc...

Meanwhile, androxus can still walk up to 1/3-1/2 of champs in the game and rmb them in the face once = insta solo kill.
Sha's Q puts out 1200 dps for 4s right now (4800 total), wonder how long till they nerf that :P


What I truly loved about this game in the beginning was the strong unique flavor between the different champions and discovering their insane-combos/hard-counters.
Now I feel like half the ability kits don't even make sense, if they ever did to begin with. For example: grover aoe heal close by + more dmg with axe far away? how is fun to have to choose? No possible combo there at all. It's just a bad kit. Compare that to andro or cassie's kit synergy and it is just silly.
In ranked he is pretty much just picked for walking tank formations, which they mega-buffed wrecker to fight... Shenanigans all around.

ProfDrMahler
12-09-2016, 10:36 PM
I fully agree with OP.

I have noticed a consistent trend of watering down certain champion's exceptional abilities instead of improving others'.
See: Skye Ult, Ying illusion, BK poppy, evie ice/blink, Drogoz flight, fern shield, barik turrets, etc...

Meanwhile, androxus can still walk up to 1/3-1/2 of champs in the game and rmb them in the face once = insta solo kill.
Sha's Q puts out 1200 dps for 4s right now (4800 total), wonder how long till they nerf that :P


What I truly loved about this game in the beginning was the strong unique flavor between the different champions and discovering their insane-combos/hard-counters.
Now I feel like half the ability kits don't even make sense, if they ever did to begin with. For example: grover aoe heal close by + more dmg with axe far away? how is fun to have to choose? No possible combo there at all. It's just a bad kit. Compare that to andro or cassie's kit synergy and it is just silly.
In ranked he is pretty much just picked for walking tank formations, which they mega-buffed wrecker to fight... Shenanigans all around.

keep in mind by sha lin the arrows have a diffrent travel time as his normal arrows and hes just standing in position by the q skill
on the other hand i agree about androx

Kodykintae
12-11-2016, 05:32 PM
if your not having fun you dont have to play dude lol wut

Krombo
12-13-2016, 11:07 AM
if your not having fun you dont have to play dude lol wut

top quality post right there
but yes I'm waiting for next patch in case they will un-f*** my favorite characters or at least balance cassie otherwise would be good time to uninstall