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View Full Version : Buck, Grohk, Barik, Grover, Fernando and Ying are all OP and need more nerfs



AAAAAA577
12-05-2016, 04:25 AM
http://masterpaladins.com/builds/champion/2092

Look at the winrate of Buck, Grohk, Barik, Grover, Fernando and Ying across their loadouts. Not many people complain about these with the exception of Buck who I am glad is getting a well-deserved nerf.

These are the heroes that truly shine in the games you play (not high level competitive except for a very small minority)

Now let's look at a hero that everyone is saying is OP, is the top of every tier list and the subject of many nerf threads: Cassie

Look at her winrate: Her basic loadout has a really pathetic winrate, and all her other loadouts have a winrate of approximately 50%. This is what a balanced hero looks like (at least to the VAST MAJORITY of the playerbase, at the very high end competitive spectrum of tournament level play it might be different, but lets be real, if you are reading this you are probably not of that level).

And it's not because Cassie is hard to play that lowers her winrate. Look at Bomb King and Drogoz. They are very hard to play, but across their builds their winrate is significantly better than Cassie.

So what I'm asking is for people to stop deciding who is OP based on emotions, and just pure theorycrafting without looking at what the statistics say in practice. Many people say "Cassie is op she can roll around and do a lot of damage at close range and long range" but that is really quite a pathetic argument that just uses words.

EvieIV
12-05-2016, 04:41 AM
wait was this a troll post

Muminette
12-05-2016, 05:04 AM
wait was this a troll post

I can't see any other reason for mentioned post to exist.

PTLagger
12-05-2016, 05:11 AM
If you balance the game depend on winrate too much this is your wrong idea. If winrate show how OP/UP like what you said, then I'm sure Ruckus is broken OP (actually he's in weak tier than all Frontline): http://paladins.guru/builds/ruckus . This is a teamplay game, win/lose chance depend on team comp not a champion alone

Why Cassie still have low winrate? Because she is the 4th to 3rd hotpick champ in the game right now beside Kinessa, Viktor, Androxus, they play her a lot because they love her design, bow-spam, they hear many ppl call her strong so they choose her, and Cassie is a FREE CHAMP => many newbie pick her in casual match. Due their bad performance, they dragged her winrate down so much. Let's see 10 people play Cassie, while 2 people are skilled Cassie, can dominate the match with very high impact, doesn't need any help from teammates, the rest are potatoes, outplayed by a shittier Skye or even Support => so her winrate is about 20% and Cassie is too weak right?

This is happen to Androxus, who considered OP tier Flanker many times but still have low winrate, the reason is same as Cassie's http://paladins.guru/builds/androxus

EvieIV
12-05-2016, 05:39 AM
If you balance the game depend on winrate too much this is your wrong idea. If winrate show how OP/UP like what you said, then I'm sure Ruckus is broken OP (actually he's in weak tier than all Frontline): http://paladins.guru/builds/ruckus . This is a teamplay game, win/lose chance depend on team comp not a champion alone

Why Cassie still have low winrate? Because she is the 4th to 3rd hotpick champ in the game right now beside Kinessa, Viktor, Androxus, they play her a lot because they love her design, bow-spam, they hear many ppl call her strong so they choose her, and Cassie is a FREE CHAMP => many newbie pick her in casual match. Due their bad performance, they dragged her winrate down so much. Let's see 10 people play Cassie, while 2 people are skilled Cassie, can dominate the match with very high impact, doesn't need any help from teammates, the rest are potatoes, outplayed by a shittier Skye or even Support => so her winrate is about 20% and Cassie is too weak right?

This is happen to Androxus, who considered OP tier Flanker many times but still have low winrate, the reason is same as Cassie's http://paladins.guru/builds/androxus

let's also not forget how these changes are also counting mirror matches where obviously one cassie will win and one will lose whereas hi-rez can avoid those from their personal data while actually balancing

Rivx
12-05-2016, 06:58 AM
picard.jpg

tuckingwhatm8
12-05-2016, 07:08 AM
ahahhahahahahahaa neat

sinosleep
12-05-2016, 08:47 AM
LMFAO. Grover. I can't. Grover.... LMFAO

TriggerSmile
12-05-2016, 01:42 PM
This look more like nerf Cassie rant if you ask me here. She is hot looking huntress, I'm aware people are sort of giving her the Zero Suit Samus Treatment (Smash Bros. Reference). On top that she is an easy to pick but she is pretty hard to master (First Hand Experience and people are going to considered this to be biased). Her combo heavily rely on the first shot after Dodge Roll, if the player is good at landing that shot yeah they can feel invincible.

As Cassie Player myself I know what is the appropriate nerfs are.

1. Damage Falloff at the extreme distances this way she doesn't out snipe Kinessa or Sha Lin. Good Cassie Players would probably not notice this change much.

2. Onslaught is the real issue here, Incitement is Cassie's Blood and Sweat, changes to this card will hurt her a lot more than it would hurt her a lot more than it would look. Hell this is a Max 4 card to be useful, I thought the problem was the one point wonders here. That was the reason why Ying's Carry On was nerfed and Evie's Worm Hole (which was over kill.) Onslaught make Cassie way too beefy and would last too long in a fight, so reduce the healing not that hard. And was her weakness was being squishy? This should make that weakness more prevalent.

3. Stop making her breasts jiggle too much I mean seriously it attracting way too many people. Men (and Women if you're into it) I know this will be a personal loss but this is weed out those talent-less perverts.

Tsuraika
12-05-2016, 01:46 PM
Why isn't skye on that list?

ThatOthell159
12-05-2016, 06:41 PM
2 words.


Sample Size.


I will not explain any further as this seems like the typical troll/emotion provoking type of post.

PS: lol grover op what the fuck

MiraKabal
12-05-2016, 08:52 PM
Eh, meta be damned, I agree if the math checks out. Most people on the forums generally tend to usually have higher than average Elo ratings. This is to be expected as they are more knowledgebale and more invested in the game. However, this is not representative of the majority of the player base, which tends to lean towards the more casual. In that range, 1400-1599 Elo, which I assume where the majority lie, balancing for the global win rate seems like the safest bid.

You know that Skye is underpowered and that Victor is countered easily? cool, but it sure doesn't seem that way for the majority of the player base. And the thing is that as long as this game is still in beta then growing the player base is always going to be the priority. Don't kid yourself here, this will not be done by catering to the players at the higher-end skill level.

Kodykintae
12-06-2016, 12:23 AM
Everyone is unbalanced!!! Ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

Nylisa
12-06-2016, 03:10 AM
This look more like nerf Cassie rant if you ask me here. She is hot looking huntress
3. Stop making her breasts jiggle too much I mean seriously it attracting way too many people. Men (and Women if you're into it) I know this will be a personal loss but this is weed out those talent-less perverts.

thats the only reason i put up with her if she was any less good looking i would hate her guts! my cassie is level 0 btw!

BuddySpy
12-06-2016, 12:08 PM
http://masterpaladins.com/builds/champion/2092Look at the winrate of Buck, Grohk, Barik, Grover, Fernando and Ying across their loadouts. Not many people complain about these with the exception of Buck who I am glad is getting a well-deserved nerf.

Barik is just fine and doesn't need a nerf. Well, I would like to see a very slight nerf but his health increased by 100 to balance this change. Ying should be fine with OB39. Enough Ying-nerfing.