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View Full Version : PIP is all round better version of BUCK, think about it.



HappuBuggy
12-02-2016, 12:33 AM
Basic Attack:
Buck deals 300-500 direct damage at max.
Aim at upper body at mid-close range for damage
Have to look at enemy to deal damage
Pip deals 600 damage for each granade regardless of distance with AoE damage to nearby enemies.
Aim at their feet for damage
Launch granade without looking at the targets.

Right click (Secondary):
Buck: 150 damage slowing net to one target, 30% bonus damage to the affected target. (14sCD)
PIP: 150 dmg AOE slow granade , 20% bonus damage to ALL the affected targets. (8s CD)

Q:
Buck: 4 second health regen 250hp/s, with a glowing belt that makes him super visible. (10s CD)
PIP: Instant 1.2k health AOE for allies and himself wherever he casts within range. (8s CD)

F:
Buck leaps one time and slow enemies, first person mode. (6s CD)
Pip becomes weightless and jump 3-4 times in third person mode, Removes debuff. (10s CD)

E:

Buck flips his shotgun which takes 2 seconds to build up his ult (WTF) with a large glowing aura, Reset CD and deal double damage for 6 seconds. (Still hard to kill any tanks TBH)

Pip fires a 200dmg granade that transform heros into chicken, also silence all the target completely, nerf the taget to 1.5k health for 4 seconds. Allies can use it as advantage. (3-shot makoa and basically everyone else)

Passive:
Buck: Large hitbox and easy to spot, 3k health
Pip: Small hitbox, 2.5k health

Gameplay:
Buck's shotgun feels like nothing, has no impact (little knockback would be nice), little recoil makes it feel powerless, gun sound is lame, reload is awkward. Everything is direct damage, NOTHING is AoE, not even his ult. Skills are selfish with no team elements (worse than most flank champs). Feels heavy and weak in general.

Pip is a team-oriented champ that is well designed but also excel in 1v1 situation. Agile and light, heals a lot and deals awesome damage to crowd and single target. . Becomes "the annoying little shXt" to play against.

ProfDrMahler
12-02-2016, 01:59 AM
...
yeah äh i have no idea how 2 awnser on this sound logic in someway

Drathahasu
12-02-2016, 02:46 AM
I agree that Pip can own buck and Pip can also support team (be help for main heal) and go flank when help is not needed.

HappuBuggy
12-02-2016, 03:22 AM
I feel like Buck really needs a big update. I don't even like his appearance (BTW purely personal preference):

Buck is a shotgun guy, why not add a mustache, beard and a cigar? or make it a doom charactor? Now is just a bald chinese Shaolin with medieval shoulder armor with a pump shotgun looking-ass guy.

Pip is the Rocket Racoon so no argument there.

PTLagger
12-02-2016, 03:27 AM
After OB39 with the nerf to Buck so I think Pip > Buck :D

Drathahasu
12-02-2016, 04:10 AM
Good Pip has always owned Buck, at least in my situations while I've played on both sides.
What Pip doesn't have is fast & aggressive movement from one location to another. This silly bunnyhop only makes aiming at Pip harder, but movement isn't as fast as Buck has.
Still, healing + slow + splash damage makes Pip a bit stronger, that only when you know how to aim ;)

ProfDrMahler
12-02-2016, 04:30 AM
Good Pip has always owned Buck, at least in my situations while I've played on both sides.
What Pip doesn't have is fast & aggressive movement from one location to another. This silly bunnyhop only makes aiming at Pip harder, but movement isn't as fast as Buck has.
Still, healing + slow + splash damage makes Pip a bit stronger, that only when you know how to aim ;)

buck wins only and only with 2 options
1. mor headshoot dmg by buck against pip
2. pip aim sucks

Ducktor
12-03-2016, 07:27 PM
Makoa has the same dps as pip, a full stun/pull rather than just a slow, and MORE HEALTH! Plus he can heal himself to double health! Wow Makoa is just a better Pip! Am I doing this right?

PTLagger
12-04-2016, 12:18 AM
Makoa has the same dps as pip, a full stun/pull rather than just a slow, and MORE HEALTH! Plus he can heal himself to double health! Wow Makoa is just a better Pip! Am I doing this right?

He have high fall-off, he can't deal damage at mid to long range, he can't perform super bunny hopping moves, his attack is direct not AoE, has 4 ammo instead of 6. Makoa can tank better, but tank only, while Pip is decent in all around

Ducktor
12-04-2016, 02:55 AM
He have high fall-off, he can't deal damage at mid to long range, he can't perform super bunny hopping moves, his attack is direct not AoE, has 4 ammo instead of 6, he can double health to 10k by Ult but Pip's Ult make a Makoa with 10k HP become a chicken with 1,5k HP. Makoa can tank better, but tank only, while Pip is decent in all around

The joke was comparing two unrelated characters and spinning it to make it seem like one is better in every way by ignoring parts of the characters. Obviously Makoa isn't a better pip, just like pip isn't a better buck.

(Also side note, makoa cannot go from 10k to 1.5k because his ult makes him CC immune so that is actually not true)

Drathahasu
12-04-2016, 03:21 AM
Actually pip is better buck, if you know how to play either of those, especially after OB39 nerf which makes Buck even more useless instead of Pip.

PTLagger
12-04-2016, 03:31 AM
(Also side note, makoa cannot go from 10k to 1.5k because his ult makes him CC immune so that is actually not true)

I think they buffed Makoa to immune CC while in Ult without noiticed it, sorry. Haven't played a lot match where Pip against Makoa. But some patches ago Pip could Ult back to a 10k HP Ult Makoa and Makoa would become a chicken

EvieIV
12-04-2016, 03:54 AM
I think they buffed Makoa to immune CC while in Ult without noiticed it, sorry. Haven't played a lot match where Pip against Makoa. But some patches ago Pip could Ult back to a 10k HP Ult Makoa and Makoa would become a chicken

if im not mistaken, pip ult does affect cc immune targets, but the chicken duration will only be 2seconds.

it is a counterplay meant to exist

Edit:


Details
The projectile travels through shields.
Has a radius of 30ft.
Only champions can be turned into chickens.
The debuff has a minimum duration of 2s if hit with diminishing returns on Crowd Control duration.
When cast on a player with CC immunity, the player is instead Polymorphed for the minimum duration. Ultimates that grant CC immunity are an exception, the player will not be Polymorphed.

Drathahasu
12-04-2016, 04:21 AM
Ultimates that grant CC immunity are an exception, the player will not be Polymorphed.

Makoa ult is an exception - Pip ult doesn't work on that.
Funny thing is, Buck ulti is one of the worst. You can hook him, slow him, push him, polymorph him - well...

PTLagger
12-04-2016, 04:32 AM
if im not mistaken, pip ult does affect cc immune targets, but the chicken duration will only be 2seconds.

it is a counterplay meant to exist

Edit:


Ultimates that grant CC immunity are an exception, the player will not be Polymorphed.

Makoa ult is an exception - Pip ult doesn't work on that.
Funny thing is, Buck ulti is one of the worst. You can hook him, slow him, push him, polymorph him - well...

I rememeber now, before November, Pip could Ult Makoa while Makoa is in Ult because Pip's Ult is a Superior CC (Chicken, Fear, Reveal), while Makoa used to Immune Hard CC (stun, freeze & soft CC) only, Hirez ninja buffed Makoa's Ult is granted him Superior CC Immunity (like Fernando's/Grohk's Ult) except Reveal. Not sure about Fear (Mal'damba) is changed or not, 2 week ago I saw Mal'damba used his Ult to 10K HP Makoa then Makoa got Feared

HappuBuggy
12-04-2016, 06:22 AM
Makoa has the same dps as pip, a full stun/pull rather than just a slow, and MORE HEALTH! Plus he can heal himself to double health! Wow Makoa is just a better Pip! Am I doing this right?

You'll need more to proof that Makoa has what Pip has but also with a ton of extra stuff like how I compared between Pip and Buck.

BuddySpy
12-04-2016, 09:33 AM
At OB39, Pip will most likely be the better pick. Some players may do not see the same because it's not easy to learn Pip. I've seen level 10 Pips still doing bad.

Drathahasu
12-04-2016, 09:55 AM
Yeah, I agree. Removing Buck leap slow makes it quite hard to go against Pip since Pip can slow with aoe and insta 1.2k heal + jumping around etc. And yes, Pip is also quite high skill-cap, that's why I'm practicing it :)

Ducktor
12-04-2016, 01:44 PM
Buck has much higher burst damage than pip (350 leap + 150 net + 900 first shot), doesn't deal 300 self damage to himself every shot at close range (that means to deal 1800 damage to a target in the same effective range as buck, you would take 900 damage from yourself as pip), has cards that can give him much lower cooldowns on kills, a much further mobility skill, higher effective dps, a reload you can interupt, and a higher health pool. Buck has a lot going for him over pip when it comes to close range combat ability. It's silly to even compare these two though as one is a flank and the other is a support.