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View Full Version : Suggesting a Small Buff for Grover: Friendly Player Counter



AtticusZed
11-29-2016, 02:56 PM
So, I want to start out by saying that Grover is a really good healer - possibly the best. Unlike every other healer that has their healing ability on a cooldown, Grover can provide consistent healing to multiple players, so long as they're in range. And while most healers can only create static healing zones that limit allied players' movement if they want the healing, Grover can move with the team, making him great at keeping his team mobile.



However, he also has many weaknesses that other healers don't have. Most healers have either

a): Decent mobility and small hitboxes
b): Solid and reliable damage output
c): The ability to stay out of LoS (Line of Sight) while their teammates reciever their healing

And all other healers also have the ability to place their healing skill and move on, requiring little to no monitoring on their part.



So. Grover is SLOW. And he has undoubtedly the most unreliable damage sources in the entire game, with only his slow-moving, easy-to-dodge throwing axe and Crippling Axe skill. Of course, the axes do a lot of damage over distance, but Grover's main purpose is area denial and SHOULD NOT be trying to confirm kills.

And in spite of all of the things stacked against him, Grover is not a bad character. He is just unique in the fact that he basically NEEDS a team to support him. No other healer is this vulnerable in a 1v1, but a good Grover who can support his team can be an ENORMOUS boon to that team.




So, all that said, I would like to suggest one single buff to add to Grover's kit:

A counter that lets you know how many friendly players are in your healing field. In a manner not unlike how Mercy's ult notifies you of how many players who are in range of your revive.




If you don't understand quite why Grover could use this tool, here are a few reasons that this could be important:

-Because of Grover's 360-degree healing, he can't always tell how many players he's healing, and it can usually be very disadvantageous to take your eyes off of the enemy and check.

-Grover could gauge roughly how much value he could get out of using a Bloom

-It could give Grover important information about whether or not he may be overextending or not having support on the objective, allowing him to more quickly decide if he should make a tactical retreat

-It will keep Grover players' focus on support, thus discouraging the DREADED GROVER FLANK


I don't feel that this buff would make Grover OP, even though he is already a good healer pick. This will, however, help him to better play on his strengths as both an area control and healer support.

Let me know what you think. though.

FenexDragonis
11-29-2016, 05:24 PM
Though i only glanced though this thread... and what i can gather is a indicator to let you know how many people are within the range of the aura. Though this can be somewhat over come with awareness.. it can be difficult to judge, i see this as a quality of life improvement i can get behind... or at very least a defined visual indicator of the auras range itself.. if there is one it doesnt show on lower settings..

FumbleBunny
11-29-2016, 05:37 PM
More tools in general to inform you who needs/receives healing would be nice. It's impossible to have 360 degrees awareness all the time when playing Support, which means you often don't notice people behind or to the sides of you that need healing.



Of course, the axes do a lot of damage over distance, but Grover's main purpose is area denial and SHOULD NOT be trying to confirm kills.

Strongly disagree. Because of his F skill and massive damage at range, Grover is an excellent champion for finishing off fleeing enemies. The first few times I played him, I was surprised by how many killing blows I got, because it happens almost automatically. Once an enemy runs away from Grover, he is in the perfect spot to kill them with a long-range attack. Not to mention that Grover has a card that gives a whopping 40% CD reduction on eliminations (with 4 points), which means you should be hitting as many things as possible when playing him, in order to get your heal up faster.

Ravuh
11-29-2016, 05:48 PM
And all of the things you've mentioned are accounted for by his much higher base hp and the fact he has an EZ mobility skill and also he is currently the only viable support that hits more then a Cassie in the right situations........ so no.

BuddySpy
11-30-2016, 08:09 AM
So. Grover is SLOW. And he has undoubtedly the most unreliable damage sources in the entire game, with only his slow-moving, easy-to-dodge throwing axe and Crippling Axe skill.

My thought? Grover needs another buff. Basic vine range should be increased by 20 % and crippling throw's effect should last 3 seconds and not 2.

LyonsOrder
11-30-2016, 08:30 AM
And all other healers also have the ability to place their healing skill and move on, requiring little to no monitoring on their part.


This isn't necessarily a good thing. Say if your tank decides to chase after someone and leaves Grohk's healing circle or Mal's Gourd area, then he won't be getting any healing. With Grover, you can follow your tank and make sure he gets the full healing from Grover's Q.

AtticusZed
11-30-2016, 11:23 AM
Sorry, Fumble, I wasn't quite clear with what I said there.

Grover is great for finishing off escaping enemies, but what I meant was that he shouldn't be CHASING enemies down to confirm kills, as he is a much more valuable asset either on the objective or supporting the damage dealers.

AtticusZed
11-30-2016, 11:35 AM
It is true he has one of the highest base hp among healing classes, but if he lacks any support, a flank can take advantage of his low mobility easily. His EZ mobility skill also isn't always reliable, since it requires a teammate or wall to connect with, and takes a good half a second after triggering to actually initiate, which could potentially be crucial if you're escaping on low health.

As for hitting more than Cassie in the right situations...even if he lands all of his hits with the maximum damage ramping over distance (which would be a very challenging thing to do, since - especially at competitive level - players will have all the time they need to see your axes coming and get out of the way), you still have a very low rate of fire, and your DPS in even the best situation wouldn't be comparable to a competent Cassie.

Your axes do, however, serve to force long-range damage dealers out of their comfort zone, forcing them to spend time dodging your axes rather than gunning down you or your teammates, or pay the price of the high damage that comes with a landed axe. That's what makes Grover such a great area denial - especially since his axes require zero reload.


But that's also why the player counter would be important to Grover - since a decent Grover with this skill wouldn't have to take the pressure off of the enemy Kinessa to check on the health of his teammates. And that singular axe that he could potentially fail to throw could be the difference between a living or dead teammate.

AtticusZed
11-30-2016, 11:40 AM
He does have cards that compensate for that. It's really a matter of what you're willing to give up in exchange for that. Personally, I like to use a build that takes advantage of Grover's Crippling Axe speed boost card, by reducing the cooldown on Crippling Axe and putting points into run speed at the start of the match. It quickly turns this otherwise slow character into something comparable to the speed of a Skye.

I don't know if I'd play this loadout competitively, but it's great fun in a casual or bot match.

AtticusZed
11-30-2016, 11:42 AM
Yes, yes, I covered that with how I mentioned Grover's healing aura benefits the team's mobility, but what I meant to imply here was that Grover's method of healing requires MUCH more awareness than other healers, as they typically only have to concern themselves with the placement of their healing skill ONCE, whereas Grover needs to be aware of his placement 24/7.

BossBrown
11-30-2016, 03:43 PM
Its not a buff at all really but its a good idea none the less will really make a difference for new or casual players if anything else

FumbleBunny
11-30-2016, 03:53 PM
Sorry, Fumble, I wasn't quite clear with what I said there.

Grover is great for finishing off escaping enemies, but what I meant was that he shouldn't be CHASING enemies down to confirm kills, as he is a much more valuable asset either on the objective or supporting the damage dealers.

Well yes and no. The reason I mentioned his F skill is because it's a very very strong movement skill, comparable to the ones that Flanks get (depending somewhat on map layout and your loadout). And it's equally good for escaping and chasing.

I do agree that Grover should be as close to his team as possible as often as possible, but securing kills is very important as well. If my team is not in immediate need of healing, I will more often than not chase fleeing enemies for a bit and try to get the killing blow. It depends on the situation though. If there is a flank nearby I will let them handle it. If not, I will more likely than not go for it, if it doesn't leave my team in a bad spot. A team that can't survive for 5-6 seconds without a healer isn't going to win anything anyway.

AtticusZed
12-01-2016, 11:17 AM
I suppose...

I do that myself sometimes, but of course I'm still playing casual, and I felt that a practice like that would be looked down upon in a competitive setting, especially since there are generally players more qualified than you to chase down weak targets, and you'd ideally just call them out for your team or something.