View Full Version : Let's Talk about Ying

11-27-2016, 03:16 PM
[I am currently LV 37. Ying is LV 10. Never played ranked]
tl;dr on WHAT IS YING?

WHAT IS YING? She is a somewhat overpowering healer that refused to die with her illusions, but can’t hurt a fly even if she tried!

WHAT IS HER STRENGTHS? Ah, Ying. Officially proclaim in the Hi-Rez Youtube channel as “the Waifu.” She herself got me to play Paladins and give it a shot. She was just so CUTE! She instantly became my main Support champion cause of her charms, and her significance on the battlefield. She heals. Like heals a lot. Like WOW. She’s heals a bit too much… Funny thing she was a completely different hero back before Paladins got onto steam. Heck, she got pulled and reworked for said reason! And now we got this Ying! Her biggest strength is her healing potential, and surprisingly her evasiveness potential, thanks to the illusions, and the ability to shift places through each one!

Ying’s primary attack is a beam of light that hits in low damage, but can ramp up to some potentially dangerous damage if all ticks hit the target. If you got excellent aim, this beam can be pretty lethal! The beam can also hit enemies a few distances away! The beam has some impressive reach to hit targets from afar, and chip off some hits before they come for you.

Ying’s secondary attack is shatter, a pretty situational ability that sends illusions to enemies, giving them an explosive interaction! It has decent damage (excellent damage if both illusions hit one target), and acceptable homing potential. Unfortunately, the cost of using your illusions, that heal allies, to use it may be a cost too high, especially if you’re too busy healing teammates from a firefight. This ability has its merits, but it’s more of a drawback than an advantage.

Ying’s signature skill, her illusions, are her biggest selling point, and potentially overpowering mechanic. You create an illusion every 5 to 8ish seconds, with having up to 2 at a time. Each heal one target 400 HP every so second. And they last some seconds before fading away. So in perspective, you have 2 healing deployables, placed ANYWHERE you can put them, that each have some HP to stay alive. They can heal one target 800 HP, from quite a distance, sometimes behind cover! And even if they are destroyed either from your own choosing or from enemy attacks, you can just deploy them again a few seconds later! Ying’s illusions have, in my opinion, the highest consistent healing out of ALL OTHER SUPPORTS. They heal somewhat frequently, can be deployed anytime without much thought, and are deployed PRETTY DAMN FAST. This makes her a priority for enemy teams to buy Cauterize or Bulldozer JUST FOR HER ALONE. Her healing is this potent!!!

Ying also has a teleporting evasive skill that allows her to shift illusions spots and even crystal spots if her ultimate has been used. She can teleport ANY DISTANCE to whatever illusion she is looking at. If she doesn’t see any, she teleports to the farthest one from her. This gives her a button-click to poff away from combat, and into safer grounds. Its only drawback is the sometimes randomness of the teleportation, and the long cooldown it has.

Ying’s ult creates invulnerable crystals that heal allies at a much higher rate than the illusions, but are cast wherever the team players are. This means you can have an entire congested area of crystals huddled together providing immense amounts to healing. OR you can have crystals scattered throughout the map, healing NOTHING. This ult has no visually pleasing activation, but its passive effects are impacting if done correctly. Even if you do prematurely use your ult with every teammates in different locations, you can still use the crystals themselves as teleporting beacons! With this, you can whizz around the map faster than any other champion in the game!

Ying is the ultimate healer. She heals ridiculously well throughout the entire match, and her illusions are pretty much permanent due to their frequent creations! If it were me, she can easily take the title of best healer!

WHAT IS HER WEAKNESSES? NOW, she may be a great healer, but she does carry faults. The recent P37 patch tampered her health to a lower degree. This makes her a bit squishier, and easier to kill. If your caught by enemy fire without your evasive skill in play, you won’t have enough damage potential to force enemies away. And get killed. Now this isn’t such a big issue if you DO have the evasive skill ready. And even with the lower health nerf, you still have an illusion healing you for 400 every so often. 800 if you have two on you!

Now Ying’s biggest biggest BIGGEST problem is her damage potential. Unless you focus on a Ying loadout that takes advantage of Shatter and it’s damage, you CANNOT damage enemies too significantly to make yourself an offensive threat. IF you can hit all your shots, then you could cause damage at an alarming rate. However, in most Paladins matches, you’ll probably be attacked by 2 people at once. Many more will attack you if you are the reason your teammates are alive. Ying can possibly kill a damage champion before they kill her, but Ying would be on low HP if such an even occurred, leaving her vulnerable for another enemy champion to finish her off. And since she’s support, most cases you’ll be with teammates, giving them illusions and focusing survivability rather than damage.

Put it this way. Grover can deal 400-800 damage if he keeps his distance at a rapid pace. Mal Damba can damage at quite a high rate with having his goo bomb that does passive damage AND heal. Not to mention his reload can stun opponents. Grohk’s lightning has a higher DPS than Ying through and through, even if he doesn’t hits all his ticks. And Pip is Pip. Ying’s damage is the lowest, in comparison to the other supports. She can HURT, but not a whole lot.

Shatter, as mentioned before, is another way to damage enemies, but as mentioned, it uses healing illusions to do so. If that drawback wasn’t enough, the kamikaze Yings can still be destroyed before they explode! There are some cards to give them HP when they shatter. But shatter is situational, and only used IF your opponent is low on HP, AND your teammates do not need healing. Rare to get such a situation like that.

Ying’s teleportation is great to poff away from danger, IF you have an illusion in a safe spot. The teleport is only good if you have an illusion some distance away from the enemy location. If you have both illusions near where enemies are, you’ll only switch a few feet away. It won’t provide much of an escape, if given this situation.

Her illusions don’t have any weakness to point out, besides their healing targeting. They seem to target whoever they feel like needs healing, which can be bothersome.

Ying’s ult can feel underwhelming, especially comparing the other support champs’ ults. Mal can scare enemies off a point. Grover gives rapid AoE healing of ginormous degrees. Grohk’s Ult sucks. And Pip is Pip. Ying’s ult DOES have an impact if they’re activated whilst teammates are together. But it isn’t an ult that has an INSTANTANEOUS impact on the field, unlike many other ults. It just… sorta happens.

Ying has the least damage potential of the support flock, but it’s a tolerable weakness, given she can heal like no tomorrow! There are weaknesses, but they’re not dealbreakers.

WHAT CAN MAKE YING BALANCE? Ying’s biggest complaint through and through are her illusions. The health nerf wasn’t necessary. It’s the illusions that makes her somewhat overpowering. Their rapid healing, fast cooldown, and healing range makes Ying haters a tough opponent. THERE ARE JUST TOO MANY WAIFUS TO CONSIDER.
There are 3 ways to nerf the illusions.

Make the illusions have a slightly longer cooldown. Like 1 or 2 seconds. This makes the illusions much more important in the fight, for they now have a longer cooldown between each placement. This will force Ying players to place their illusions more strategically, like place them behind cover or frontliners.

Make the illusions have slightly lesser healing potential or range. HOWEVER, if this nerf is to be used, give Ying her health back. If the illusions were to heal 50 or 100 less, the survivability of everyone, including Ying, would decrease significantly. Instead of 800 healing every so often, it would now be 700 or even 600 health’s worth of healing. A cassie or androxus can drop this heal by just 1 shot! This healing nerf shouldn’t be pass 100, or Ying would now be underpowered instead of balance!

Make the illusions have MUCH lesser health. If neither nerf is done, and the illusions keep their rapid deployment, them at least make their health have minimal levels. Long CD deployables should have a lot of HP, and short CD deployables should have small HP. This nerf isn’t the most favorable, for me, but its another way to nerf the illusions.

Honestly, all other skills of Ying are balanced as they are. Her damage is low, but potent if you have good aim. Her evasive skill gives her much mobility if done correctly. Shatter is a damage skill that has cost to use it’s potential. And her ult is fine. I guess the ult can have a more FLASHY impact than just “poff” healing. Make them heal 1000-1500 on deployment, and then use the passive healing. Something!

Ying is quite the dame, but has some signs of overpowered traits, mainly because of her illusions. She’s a balance champ with all her other skills, but it’s her sexy doubles that can anger some people. I main her myself, obviously, but a nerf of her illusions isn’t something I wouldn’t object. Just don’t nerf her too badly. Not my waifu…

11-27-2016, 04:07 PM
One word... BULLDOZER problem solved... i see this so much, most commonly if i see a ying, theres typically a barik on the team as well... then people buy wrecker or cauterize.. wonder then wonder why they cant get though her... ying is much like barik... without her clones she cant heal... much as without his turrets barik is much less of a threat..

again BULLDOZER = no clones no healing

not to mention her mobility skill can be a bit unrelyable

11-27-2016, 05:14 PM
^ The truth has been spoken.

11-28-2016, 12:19 AM
as a main ying i agree with most of this , both grohk and Grover ultimate can nullify huge chunk of damage done to teammates , but with 2 illusions out and ultimate i still watch the tank im healing dies under fire of 3-4 enemies!

also i think she and other champions who has deployable items deserve a panel to control those deployables , i watched my illusion healing someone with over 50% health while someone else is in red zone and they died , or sometimes i just want them both focused on same target.
that being said i still dont know why they are being called illusions! they are suppose to trick enemies but anyone can see the difference between them and main ying cause they just standing there not even moving.enemies should at least see them mimic ying attack animation so it causes a little confusion :p

11-28-2016, 07:09 AM
I like Ying a lot how she currently is. Touching on the point Nylisa made, Ying's Ultimate doesn't feel as impactful as some of the other supports, her base kit is great though! :D

11-28-2016, 08:37 AM
I used to main Ying whenever I went support instead of tank but I've been using Grohk more and more lately. A regularly ignored problem with Ying's large healing numbers is that a fair bit of it is "wasted" healing.

The number of times I've either watched as Ying or experienced as Barik or Makoa seeing a periphery damage or flank get healed while I die and we wind up losing control of the objective is absolutely infuriating. As is the case with DPS, flat healing numbers aren't what's important. EFFECTIVE healing is.

50k with Grohk is often times more valuable than 70k with Ying being as with Grohk I KNOW that when my front liners need to get healed up they will be going from 1k to topped off in no time flat.

Not that it's something I think needs to be fixed btw, I think it's kind of a balancing factor. I just thing people regularly go wow look at those big numbers without factoring it in.

12-01-2016, 12:00 PM
Huh. P39 got Ying a nerf on her illusions. Didn't expect they'll go on a nerf of their longevity.

Tis a nerf. I don't like it or hate it.

12-01-2016, 12:10 PM
It's a big nerf, but it's not that important.
Spring Bloom is what makes Ying annoying to play against, not Carry On.
With Spring Bloom, you're just feeding her more illusions when you kill them. There's no counter to it except to kill her, which is kind of hard if she's surrounded by both her team and her clones.

Also, did we really need that wall of text about playing Ying in casual?