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View Full Version : Matchmaking, the one man army that will destroy this game.



OutlaWarlorD17
11-26-2016, 01:01 PM
Hello everyone!

This is my first post on the forums, but hey, we all gotta start somewhere! :)

I usually don't write stuff on forums but this one made me so annoyed that I actually had to. The game overall is great. Champions are mostly balanced with a few exceptions now and then.

Maps are also dynamic and fun to play. There is no problem there.

But then, we come to the thing called matchmaking. 2 weeks ago I was a 4000+ Personal rating player with 5+ champs over 4100. Everything was going more or less decent until the point in the past 2 weeks where my matchmaking just "broke" down. I get qued with people that always buy aggresion vs 2-3 tanks comps or even vs 2 healers team compilations.

Can someone tell me where is the logic of "high" elo matchmaking if I get qued up with people who are most certanly 2k elo max?

Also, I know that few of you might say that I'm just bad and that it's my fault for losing aswell and I do have to agree with you on that one but...
It just feels bad if I have the best in class and play of the game in 5+ games in a row and I still lose because of my teammates that have 10-15k damage in a game that was 15+ min.

new2destroyou
11-26-2016, 02:27 PM
You can't blame the system for people that buy agression xD

But yeah, competitive matchmaking is kind of broken now, high elo players vs mid/low elo players.

In fact, even casual is like that, that's why im on hiatus during this patch xD

mefxes
11-26-2016, 07:28 PM
Matchmaking is completely nonsense.

This game is not rewarding for good players.

EvieIV
11-26-2016, 07:57 PM
well if you are at 4000 rather than get paired with 4k players you get paired with and against 2k players and see if you beat them

matchmaking doesn't pair you with people of equal skill, just puts together teams of the same average

FenexDragonis
11-26-2016, 08:25 PM
Matchmaking is completely nonsense.

This game is not rewarding for good players.

its not intended to... its intended to help bad players get wins so they dont get mad and leave the game... when you look at how bad some players are in this game... do you really think in a balanced matchmaking system they would have 40-50% adverage win ratios? nope... hi-rez knows stupid people are where the get the majority of cash income.. so they dont want to alienate them..

though this is only half the problem, the other half comes from the fact.. players build premade partys to avoid to get matched with these players... which only adds to the problem as it makes it even harder for matchmaking to attempt to make balanced games when all it has to work with is premade partys and not so capable players..

hi-rez could alleviate a lot of complaints with matchmaking by simply creating a second casual queue that is for solo players only, of course this would purely optional, but it allows those players more even playing feilds where they can try to improve, because when there getting carried or stompped every game it doesnt help them grow... and further creates toxicty in the community when the players who understand the game are getting stuck being the one expected to carry every game it only adds to the problem.

esroh
11-26-2016, 09:46 PM
its not intended to... its intended to help bad players get wins so they dont get mad and leave the game... when you look at how bad some players are in this game... do you really think in a balanced matchmaking system they would have 40-50% adverage win ratios? nope... hi-rez knows stupid people are where the get the majority of cash income.. so they dont want to alienate them..

though this is only half the problem, the other half comes from the fact.. players build premade partys to avoid to get matched with these players... which only adds to the problem as it makes it even harder for matchmaking to attempt to make balanced games when all it has to work with is premade partys and not so capable players..

hi-rez could alleviate a lot of complaints with matchmaking by simply creating a second casual queue that is for solo players only, of course this would purely optional, but it allows those players more even playing feilds where they can try to improve, because when there getting carried or stompped every game it doesnt help them grow... and further creates toxicty in the community when the players who understand the game are getting stuck being the one expected to carry every game it only adds to the problem.

rating system is also bad. i see diamond ranks being complete imbeciles all the time, and master ranks that are just mediocre.

Rimarlk
11-27-2016, 12:35 PM
Having just joined the game several days ago and now getting past noob tier, whatever it's called, matchmaking is my biggest frustration. Well, besides an Evie who knows what the hell she's doing. Anyways, balanced matches are so hard to come by...my teams either wipe the floor with them or we get manhandled.

It's also really, really annoying when I'm carrying, as MAKOA. I got out of a match yesterday where I had more eliminations than my entire team (3 snipers) and only one did more damage than me. Like wtf...

If I were to quit Paladins for any reason, it'd be matchmaking.

FenexDragonis
11-27-2016, 04:10 PM
rating system is also bad. i see diamond ranks being complete imbeciles all the time, and master ranks that are just mediocre.

yep because they probably exploited or got carried, ive seen it quite a bit my self... this is why ranked is a joke..


the absolute best thing hi-rez could do for casual matchmaking is to create a optional queue for solo players

as far as ranked go well i think hi-rez has more important issues to address, such as people cheating/exploiting their way to ranks they dont deserve... getting rankings to actually have to be earned, and an actual real display of skill,

Juvator
11-27-2016, 05:12 PM
15 games 14 losses. all games lost versus people with twice the elo and playtime and almost all games we got basecamped. And how was your day in Paladins ?....

This matchmaking is retarded and entirely unrewarding you just get stomped on by lvl 100 player while i'm lvl 33 .. how is this fair. And this is in Casual 5 man premade queuing. I'm seriously only meeting top 10 players in their respective rating ladders. In two days my winrate went from 60% to about 50% simply because of playing with 5 man forced to play against players with 10 times the playtime..

And I'm not even getting better because we just get rekt to hard to get any practise and meanwhile losing 14 times out of 15 doesn't help to improve your mood or focus so you just play even worse.

mefxes
11-27-2016, 05:27 PM
its not intended to... its intended to help bad players get wins so they dont get mad and leave the game... when you look at how bad some players are in this game... do you really think in a balanced matchmaking system they would have 40-50% adverage win ratios? nope... hi-rez knows stupid people are where the get the majority of cash income.. so they dont want to alienate them..

though this is only half the problem, the other half comes from the fact.. players build premade partys to avoid to get matched with these players... which only adds to the problem as it makes it even harder for matchmaking to attempt to make balanced games when all it has to work with is premade partys and not so capable players..

hi-rez could alleviate a lot of complaints with matchmaking by simply creating a second casual queue that is for solo players only, of course this would purely optional, but it allows those players more even playing feilds where they can try to improve, because when there getting carried or stompped every game it doesnt help them grow... and further creates toxicty in the community when the players who understand the game are getting stuck being the one expected to carry every game it only adds to the problem.

Dumb ppl should have the correct rating based on individual performance.

And should be paired with ppl as sumb as them.

Playing with the same level won't make anyone ragequit and leave the game.

Premade are only possible in casual, I don't care about casual. It is casual, anyway.

Queue for solo players only won't solve the problem in any way (COMPETITIVE, casual who cares).

What they need to do is individual rating for players and pair ppl based on individual ratings.

EpplZ
11-27-2016, 06:56 PM
They just need to get the ELO difference tighter, this way medium will play medium, hardcore will play hardcore and newbies will play newbies, there is nothing more frustrating than getting destroyed because either the enemy is so strong you cant do shit, or you have so many idiots on your team that you cant carry even at your best.

This bad matchmaking just help the newbies, average / good players are just getting paired with utter useless people and you just lose ELO because of that... No point in trying to rank up when you lose 200 ELO on a champion because one idiot in your team took skye and did shit the entire game...

Even casual is not funny with this bad MM, its casual yes, you still want to win or lose fair and square, not because you get matched with some level 1 sha lin who cant get a kill the entire match...

One solution to avoid this would be to create some separated servers for specific levels only, say you can only choose from your pool of champions above level 10, this way you would be sure to play with people that actually understand their roles and play with their best champions.

I'm sick and tired about this MM, really... Its not rewarding, there isnt any incentive to get better as your W/L is based on random luck, and you just want to kill your entire team for being so pointlessly stupid sometimes.

ChavacoDoPaulo
11-27-2016, 06:59 PM
I don't think that is matchmakin's fault. Hi-rez should improve the game tutorial, it's the only way to make new players understand how to buy itens correctly, or that a team composed by only flanks and damage dealers will hardly win a game.

mefxes
11-27-2016, 08:12 PM
I don't think that is matchmakin's fault. Hi-rez should improve the game tutorial, it's the only way to make new players understand how to buy itens correctly, or that a team composed by only flanks and damage dealers will hardly win a game.

If a 2400 Elo is paired with 1400 Elo is matchmaking fault.

TexanTerrorist
11-28-2016, 02:32 AM
I have 3550 makoa and I am trying to get him into diamond but I keep on getting put with people who buy aggression and go afk and leave.

Crookedtooth
11-28-2016, 07:46 AM
Of course this game is only rewarding for noobs. Why? Because they make the big player base and therefore bring the money, pro gamers are just a really small minority of probably less than 1% in this game. Noobs and idiots are the ones who bring money to Hi-Rez so why should they displease them? This is a legit business model and they won't change it in the future - if that less than 1% of people leave the game, Hi-Rez couldnt care less if the 99% leave because the game is too hard they go bankrupt.

Capitalism mates - sad but true.

LyonsOrder
11-28-2016, 08:32 AM
Hello everyone!

This is my first post on the forums, but hey, we all gotta start somewhere! :)

I usually don't write stuff on forums but this one made me so annoyed that I actually had to. The game overall is great. Champions are mostly balanced with a few exceptions now and then.

Maps are also dynamic and fun to play. There is no problem there.

But then, we come to the thing called matchmaking. 2 weeks ago I was a 4000+ Personal rating player with 5+ champs over 4100. Everything was going more or less decent until the point in the past 2 weeks where my matchmaking just "broke" down. I get qued with people that always buy aggresion vs 2-3 tanks comps or even vs 2 healers team compilations.

Can someone tell me where is the logic of "high" elo matchmaking if I get qued up with people who are most certanly 2k elo max?

Also, I know that few of you might say that I'm just bad and that it's my fault for losing aswell and I do have to agree with you on that one but...
It just feels bad if I have the best in class and play of the game in 5+ games in a row and I still lose because of my teammates that have 10-15k damage in a game that was 15+ min.

I just checked your profile stats and you had 9 competitive losses in a row. How are you still sane?? I think you are getting these teammates because your ELO is not really that high. If you play in NA and need someone to team with you, feel free to add me :)

EpplZ
11-28-2016, 11:44 AM
http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/844345CassieFucktard.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=844345CassieFucktard.jpg)

Oh welcome .... Look at our Cassie... Feeding the entire game, level 4 , so we played 4V5. I'm sick of this game, fix your MM oh yeah it was ranked... Cassie lvl 4 first pick, GG!

I'm bored of these fucktards who cant play and ruin all my games

Drathahasu
11-28-2016, 01:57 PM
Couple great examples again - got to love this matchmaking:
TeamA (avg elo 2096); TeamB (avg elo 1702); diff 394 - https://paladins.guru/censor/match/jh
TeamA (avg elo 2275); TeamB (avg elo 1726); diff 549 - https://paladins.guru/censor/match/j3
TeamA (avg elo 2480); TeamB (avg elo 1701); diff 778 - https://paladins.guru/censor/match/jA

Matchmaking rulez - thank you Hi-Rez.

sinosleep
11-28-2016, 03:29 PM
Doesn't matter how good the match making is if there aren't enough people playing the game to get decent queue times without massaging the Elo range.

Even as it currently stands I've had waits of 10 minutes which is already stretching it. The fact that depending on what time I log on I consistently run into the same 15 some odd people tells me there's not many people at 4k MMR running the game. That is the larger issue.

FenexDragonis
11-28-2016, 03:53 PM
Dumb ppl should have the correct rating based on individual performance.

And should be paired with ppl as sumb as them.

Playing with the same level won't make anyone ragequit and leave the game.

Premade are only possible in casual, I don't care about casual. It is casual, anyway.

Queue for solo players only won't solve the problem in any way (COMPETITIVE, casual who cares).

What they need to do is individual rating for players and pair ppl based on individual ratings.

Casual Who cares LMAFO... you do realize that the vast majority of this games player base, or any games player base fall into the casual pool.. you want to mock the casual players while you obsess over ranked? even though in my many years of being a gamer, i have never seen a ranked system so broken, im not going to waste effort explaining every little thing that contributes to this other than the fact that the system can be exploited, any ranked system that can be exploited as easy as this games can... well with that knowledge if you still can take it seriously, well you might have some personal adequacy issues to sort out.

i mean between cheaters people getting carried, and exploiters. how can this system give even remotely accurate estimations... it cant... im sorry ranked in its current state, is nothing more than a joke that exists to stroke egos of people with adequacy issues or superiority complex's... now im not going to explain how to exploit as i either have before in this thread or in other threads.... but since it involves throwing games, it not only causes the player whos doing this to bloat raiting on certain characters... it drags other players you get matched with down with you... "oh look this guy is higher rating than me with this character on my team" you select a character to throw the game with... and it benefits you on two fronts... the player with higher raiting looses rating, while you benefit via the exploit..

im sorry even without matchmaking ranked would still be a joke... again if you understand why the system is broken, and still take it seriously you probably have some personal issues you need to work out. no better proof then seeing a diamond players who make the ai bots look capable

Hellklok
11-28-2016, 04:33 PM
What they need to do is individual rating for players and pair ppl based on individual ratings.
This .

OutlaWarlorD17
11-28-2016, 06:37 PM
There has been so many replies that I have no clue where to begin with, heh.

First, I want to adress the person that asked how am I still sane after 9 straight loses. Well, I tend to take it from day to day basis. For example, today I had 7 straight victories so I'm still kinda hanging on onto my pass MMR.

From what I've seen, I don't feel bad if I lose a game that was evenly matched. Hell, today after 7 matches came a defeat that was my most epic game so far. 3/3 both teams ulted 3 times on that last capture. We lost, but the game was epic nontheless.

My main problem is where you are not given a chance to fight because if there are 2 players 3500 MMR+ on one team and 4 players 3500+ on the other, the chances are the team A is going to get stomped. And that is nowhere close to a fair fight.

It isn't insulting to casual players to play vs casual players like someone mentioned above. On the opposite, I would say that the casual player will more enjoy a game where he can actually make a difference with his skill cap. The game where he can actually kill something or capture something. We don't want to put newbies together because they ruin our games (we do but i'm trying to be political :P), we just want games that are decided over a better play, not over a complete stomp because of the MMR differences.

Sorry for a long post though. :P

Also, a random idea. What do you guys think if they made a system where you don't lose rating with a champion if you were the best in class? I really think that could work because if nothing else, less people would go afk since they would be trying to save their asses in that case scenario. :D

Drathahasu
11-28-2016, 11:22 PM
That might be true, but still it doesn't justify to put ~1700 average elo players against ~2500...
Yes, those games our team was pre-made, still I'm pretty sure you can find 4x ~1600 elo and 1x ~2400 elo to put against us - not 2x ~2900 who would destroy together.
Doesn't matter how good the match making is if there aren't enough people playing the game to get decent queue times without massaging the Elo range.

Even as it currently stands I've had waits of 10 minutes which is already stretching it. The fact that depending on what time I log on I consistently run into the same 15 some odd people tells me there's not many people at 4k MMR running the game. That is the larger issue.

OutlaWarlorD17
11-29-2016, 04:05 AM
That might be true, but still it doesn't justify to put ~1700 average elo players against ~2500...
Yes, those games our team was pre-made, still I'm pretty sure you can find 4x ~1600 elo and 1x ~2400 elo to put against us - not 2x ~2900 who would destroy together.

Well, I was at 4150ish and I also had to wait for 5-8 minutes and after that wait I got teamed up with people that were clueless about team composition and items that were good vs enemy team. Even though the enemy team had evie, bomb king and drogoz, they still decided that the best approach would be fully maxed heaven mixed with aggresion. That isn't competitive at all, that's just doomed to fail from the very start.

sinosleep
11-29-2016, 05:19 AM
That might be true, but still it doesn't justify to put ~1700 average elo players against ~2500...
Yes, those games our team was pre-made, still I'm pretty sure you can find 4x ~1600 elo and 1x ~2400 elo to put against us - not 2x ~2900 who would destroy together.

That's the thing though, it kinda does. If the choice is play a perfect game where everyone is ranked at my exact elo but wait 20 minutes, or keep the current system and wait 6 - 10 then I'm waiting 6 - 10. I don't have the time to sit on my hands for 20 minutes at a time. If the queue ever gets that high that's the day I never play again and then guess what? The match making just gets worse for everyone still around.

Now I agree, that sometimes the spread itself doesn't make any damned sense. If the match making needs to relax elo levels in order to shorten queue times well them damn, at least spread the elo around evenly. It shouldn't be 1 team with 3 4k guys and 2 3ks and then the other team with 5 2.5 k guys. Spread the higher ranked guys around.

ProfDrMahler
11-29-2016, 05:44 AM
i personal think ranked is carp right now and everybody knows that even hi-riz the point is they focus more on the balances part/ and cosmetics that they probly dont work on the mm "on my opinion"

Edit: i think if there is a possible 2 play a stack up 5 party in ranked there is a better chance 2 see wich champ needs a buff/nerf wich does over good #bariknerfwasntneeded and wich got 2hard nerfed #viktoristheweakesschampnow

OutlaWarlorD17
11-29-2016, 01:56 PM
i think if there is a possible 2 play a stack up 5 party in ranked there is a better chance 2 see wich champ needs a buff/nerf wich does over good #bariknerfwasntneeded and wich got 2hard nerfed #viktoristheweakesschampnow

Tbh, I do think that they will add the team ranked at some point.