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Corrund
11-22-2016, 12:04 AM
Champion requires NERF:

(Health: 3000 hp) - bouncy meat. = GOOD MOBILETANKDAMAGER!!!!!! YAH!!! EVERY CHAMPION KNOW!

Shotgun
(A massive cannon that fires 20 small pieces of shrapnel that deal 27 damage (every 9 sec. - NO));
20*27=540 every first and every 1-2 sec.

Recovery
(Heal for 1000 Health over 4s.) - 1/3 HEALTH + 10 SEC COOLDOWN = good balance: tank himself medic (sarcasm)

Heroic Leap
(Buck leaps an incredible height and distance. Landing on a target deals 350 damage and slows enemies for 1s.) - 6 SEC. COOLDOWN - I flying meat, which kills ALWAYS! Another weak champion never run away! AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAH (P.S. - Buck)

Buck Wild (Ultimate)
(Go Buck Wild, instantly resetting all your Cooldowns, refilling your ammo, and causing your weapon to deal double damage for 6s.); 540*2=1080 + every 6 sec. = 6480, 5400.

Your player 31-rank: Corrund

PTLagger
11-22-2016, 12:51 AM
I see you are main Viktor, and Buck is a HARD COUNTER to Viktor. Simple ways to counter Buck are stacking with your team and buy Cauterize. With this strategy Buck can't do anything harm to your team, yes he CAN'T do anything. I play Buck & I usually lose when against a well-stacked team.

ThatOthell159
11-22-2016, 02:39 AM
Buck is OP against call of duty players, if you stick with team and play as a team, you won't find Buck op.

ButtonSmasher
11-22-2016, 02:43 AM
Buck has his when it comes to damage... But believe me he's absolute shit when he fights against me as Nando, Barik or Ruckus... He ain't that special he's just a great flanker and if you just have someone close your side he isn't so strong as people think... But his weapon can look overpowered and he's maybe a bit to quick for my taste... His jump should get a little nerf like 2 extra cooldown second like they did with barik.

This my opinion nothing more :)

Krunched
11-22-2016, 03:49 AM
5 tips to counter Buck:

1. Don't buy agression 2. Buy Cauterize instead 3. Aim him first (when you can)
4. Don't run from him when you see him jumping at you, shoot him. (You could take away half his health while he leaping in the air at you) and 4. Group up. He does direct dmg so you can hit him but he can't hit you.

Fiftagorn
11-22-2016, 04:42 AM
https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/paladins.gamepedia.com/thumb/6/64/Card_Cauterize.png/90px-Card_Cauterize.png?version=dc5d1430f1012fbc2820847 2b37b4a3b

EpplZ
11-22-2016, 06:05 AM
I actually agree with the OP, even if Bucks have many counters, he's just too safe to play at the moment, he's useless when your team is stacked BUT a good buck player (or even average) will instantly punish you if you try to flank, if you play in the back or if you overextend. To me a single champion shouldnt have that much impact in the game, the only tactic you can use vs a Buck player is to regroup, this leaves you open to be flanked, backraped and grounded on point under heavy fire.

The only Champion that can consistently kill Buck 1V1 is Cassie (same skill level), with any other champion you simply cant --> Jump + Netshot + regenerate + pew pew, = your dead unless cauterize 3 (and remember he buys items too...)

So again, I'm not saying Buck is OP because he does his job, I'm saying he has too much of an impact on the strategies you can use to counter him, nerfing him a bit (I think the cooldown on his abilities is the way to go here, his healthpool and damages are fine) would make him more balanced.

LinkAkward
11-22-2016, 06:11 AM
I actually agree with the OP, even if Bucks have many counters, he's just too safe to play at the moment, he's useless when your team is stacked BUT a good buck player (or even average) will instantly punish you if you try to flank, if you play in the back or if you overextend. To me a single champion shouldnt have that much impact in the game, the only tactic you can use vs a Buck player is to regroup, this leaves you open to be flanked, backraped and grounded on point under heavy fire.


You just said how flanking works
Buck is a flank. and hes not OP.
i dont play Buck. but hes to easy to kill. just get in hes face.

Buck doesent need a nerf imo.

EpplZ
11-22-2016, 06:22 AM
Nope, you can kill androx or evie coming at you 1V1, you cant kill an average Buck player, his cd's are so tiny with the right cards you just cant counter him, so the only option VS this Flanker is to regroup and play defensively, tell me any other champion that have such an impact in the strategies you can use ? (maybe Cassie / Drogoz and thats why I think they needs little tweaks also) --> I didnt say he needs a huge nerf, I said when you only have one way to counter a champion and this one way entirely rely on your team, its balance breaking in my opinion.

Again, I'm not saying he's OP, I'm saying that comparatively to the other flankers, he's doing too much of a good job, so either bring the other flankers to his level or bring him down to theirs, and raising a bit the CD's on his abilities would do that just fine I think. With the right cards he's basically a Evie regarding leap in and out capabilities (even if Evie has better escape), with large HP and a really low skillcap regarding his weapon, androx can engage but needs to stay a bit more exposed before he can dash out, evie is the fastest but her weapon takes time to master and she's squishy, skye... well its skye...

PTLagger
11-22-2016, 06:38 AM
Nope, you can kill androx or evie coming at you 1V1, you cant kill an average Buck player, his cd's are so tiny with the right cards you just cant counter him, so the only option VS this Flanker is to regroup and play defensively, tell me any other champion that have such an impact in the strategies you can use ? (maybe Cassie / Drogoz and thats why I think they needs little tweaks also) --> I didnt say he needs a huge nerf, I said when you only have one way to counter a champion and this one way entirely rely on your team, its balance breaking in my opinion.

Again, I'm not saying he's OP, I'm saying that comparatively to the other flankers, he's doing too much of a good job, so either bring the other flankers to his level or bring him down to theirs, and raising a bit the CD's on his abilities would do that just fine I think. With the right cards he's basically a Evie regarding leap in and out capabilities (even if Evie has better escape), with large HP and a really low skillcap regarding his weapon, androx can engage but needs to stay a bit more exposed before he can dash out, evie is the fastest but her weapon takes time to master and she's squishy, skye... well its skye...

Really? I think you haven't met a good Androxus/Evie yet, both of them can 1v1 Buck if they use Cauterize lv2, or buying his time so much, good Evie and Androxus can harass or solo as well. Skye can take some advantage from map such as small area + reload speed build, can burst him down quickly. And Buck's shotgun isn't low skill cap, yes it's never miss, but if you don't aim correctly (center of circle to target), you will deal only 50-200 dmg per shot, wasting ammo make his become vulnerable because his reload too long

LinkAkward
11-22-2016, 07:13 AM
Nope, you can kill androx or evie coming at you 1V1, you cant kill an average Buck player, his cd's are so tiny with the right cards you just cant counter him,

please stop.
i played Sha Lin the other day and buck came after me time after time. ( i suck with sha lin )
i used Impaler to knock him back / stun him in a wall then Planted. buck is gone... SO PLEASE! Buck is a joke if you know how to counter him.

Sha Lin. Impaler Arrow and Planted. Buck is gone
Cassie. Blast Shot and Disengage and two well done made shoots and Buck is gone.
Kinessa. dont know. but i hate kinessa overall. so havent played her that much to found a way yet. but i will.
Bomb King. Only need to hit him with 2-3 bombs and Buck is gone.
Victor. Played correctly Victor out Dmg Buck in anyway. ( combo nade )

Only Champions i se have a problem with buck is supports. but Supports are suppose to be close to the Tank!
and then they will be fine ( atleest i try keep em safe when i tank ). if a support go on a solo mission. i cant do anything for him/her. ( Pip is not on my support list. hes a flank imo )

PTLagger
11-22-2016, 07:21 AM
please stop.
i played Sha Lin the other day and buck came after me time after time. ( i suck with sha lin )
i used Impaler to knock him back / stun him in a wall then Planted. buck is gone... SO PLEASE! Buck is a joke if you know how to counter him.

Sha Lin. Impaler Arrow and Planted. Buck is gone
Cassie. Blast Shot and Disengage and two well done made shoots and Buck is gone.
Kinessa. dont know. but i hate kinessa overall. so havent played her that much to found a way yet. but i will.
Bomb King. Only need to hit him with 2-3 bombs and Buck is gone.
Victor. Played correctly Victor out Dmg Buck in anyway. ( combo nade )

Only Champions i se have a problem with buck is supports. but Supports are suppose to be close to the Tank!
and then they will be fine ( atleest i try keep em safe when i tank ). if a support go on a solo mission. i cant do anything for him/her. ( Pip is not on my support list. hes a flank imo )

Kinessa can counter Buck if she know where Buck will jump, especially Timber Mill and Outpost, she just shoot at Buck in mid air while he is jumping > Teleport to another roof with a card that +%HP after teleport > Aim and shoot Buck again, if he tries to come > Drop mines and kill Buck while in mid air again, even Buck come, he just has not much HP left so you can finish him by carbine + mines

LinkAkward
11-22-2016, 07:25 AM
Kinessa can counter Buck if she know where Buck will jump, especially Timber Mill and Outpost, she just shoot at Buck in mid air while he is jumping > Teleport to another roof with a card that +%HP after teleport > Aim and shoot Buck again, if he tries to come > Drop mines and kill Buck while in mid air again, even Buck come, he just has not much HP left so you can finish him by carbine + mines

Thanks.
now we got a completed list on how to kill Buck. so ima stick to my opinion. Buck doesent need a nerf.
sure he got alot of power. but hes not OP. Pip is more annoying then Buck. ( splash dmg and real healing pip is crazy )

EpplZ
11-22-2016, 07:27 AM
Shotguns have allways been the lowest skill cap weapons of all time in any fps, indeed if you use them from 100 meters away they are useless, but aiming center of the body is usually not that hard when you are in CQC (especially in a kinda slow game like paladins).

Again, I'm fond of Buck and I'm not on a crusade, but he's IMO outperforming other flankers in his respective role (1V1) because of his in / out capability, high hp and regenerate.

I think we should take off the items regarding balancing : items are a counter yes, but they are not here to balance an OP or UP caracter, avalaible Decks and base champion are here to balance. Buck is not OP gameplay wise because its a team based game and you have counters, but if you take the champion himself, I think he does better than any other flanks just because he can stay on combat longer and dont have to escape as much. The UP thing in him is that he's totally useless once you regroup, thats not really true with evie (AoE) and androx (less damage falloff), but again in a 1V1 situation Buck is imo too good at what he's doing and your only option is to regroup.

I really dont think Androx with his available cards and base abilities can rekt a Buck 1V1, Evie might because of her escape, skye... no no really I wont talk about skye.

Phantom77
11-22-2016, 07:28 AM
I've no problem with buck, I totally agree he has counters, it's perfectly ok, but it's just his health...ahhh...sigh.
after ob38 a flanker like buck has more than health than a front line, that's just ridiculous. his awesome shotgun, nice mobility and tankyness make him feel like a damage class not a flank at all. I support the fact that he should be nerfed just because he doesn't feel like a flank...but hey that's just my opinion :D I respect you guys's opinions too!

LinkAkward
11-22-2016, 07:35 AM
I really dont think Androx with his available cards and base abilities can rekt a Buck 1V1
have you played Andro? up in the air. stalk buck and keep fire. Andro can stay in the air the whole match if he wants to.
Buck cant and Bucks shootgun doesent do great dmg on people in the air.

Kpeta
11-22-2016, 07:38 AM
Champion requires NERF:

(Health: 3000 hp) - bouncy meat. = GOOD MOBILETANKDAMAGER!!!!!! YAH!!! EVERY CHAMPION KNOW!

Shotgun
(A massive cannon that fires 20 small pieces of shrapnel that deal 27 damage (every 9 sec. - NO));
20*27=540 every first and every 1-2 sec.

Recovery
(Heal for 1000 Health over 4s.) - 1/3 HEALTH + 10 SEC COOLDOWN = good balance: tank himself medic (sarcasm)

Heroic Leap
(Buck leaps an incredible height and distance. Landing on a target deals 350 damage and slows enemies for 1s.) - 6 SEC. COOLDOWN - I flying meat, which kills ALWAYS! Another weak champion never run away! AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAH (P.S. - Buck)

Buck Wild (Ultimate)
(Go Buck Wild, instantly resetting all your Cooldowns, refilling your ammo, and causing your weapon to deal double damage for 6s.); 540*2=1080 + every 6 sec. = 6480, 5400.

Your player 31-rank: Corrund

You need kiding.

PTLagger
11-22-2016, 07:45 AM
I play Buck a a lot, met many good Androxus & Evie players, and I outplayed by them, even Skye with broken +60% reload speed build (I'm not a bad Buck), the first counter way is using Cauterize, the 2nd counter way (for flanker) is attack him first, or know where he will jump make an ambush, for Damage just stay near support, or frontline, since Support can deal with him easily if that Buck doesn't use Cauterize lv2-3
Androxus with Cauterize lv2 can shutdown Buck with only 6 bullet hit, and Buck is an easy target because of his hitbox is large like Fernando's hitbox and Slow moving after leap, same as Evie, she can 1v1 him too with Flicker IV + wormhole card, she can double Blink, get double heal with 600 HP total every 4s, her combo is Blink + shoot from above, Blink again, can use quick Ice Block for slow effect, due Buck's large hitbox & slow movement, it's easy to hit him from above
Skye is quite weak, but if she take advantage in small area, not open where Buck can't jump out, she has more chance to attack Buck first because of Hidden, 3 poison dart with built-in Cauterize + LMB can kill him in 2s, plus her reload speed build (which make Skye gain at least +40% reload speed) make Skye look like she doesn't have reload
In Damage, good aiming Drogoz can duel Buck easily, just fly + shoot him from above, if he escapes, use fire spit combo to blast him while he's hiding in corner

tumatauenga
11-22-2016, 07:50 AM
Buck is an immensely powerful hero when used correctly in his role (flanker). But the best counter for him, is also the best counter against all flankers, don't be alone. Stay in groups, and have at least one person spec into cauterise, you will melt him very quickly. Especially heroes like Viktor, hammer as he is jumping towards you, if you have cauterise, his HP will disappear, he won't be able to heal properly and he will have wasted his escape chasing you down.

When used with the right card set, it can be extremely difficult to wear him down, especially with all of the cooldown reductions he can have.

In saying that, as someone who plays buck a lot (and considers him one of my mains) I do feel he could use an ever so slight health decrease. Just 100 or 200 would be perfect IMO. But it may also be possible that most of the people I was up against were just crap.

Ravuh
11-22-2016, 07:51 AM
If you have a decent support or flanker or even you're a decent player, cauterize shuts down buck, the only way Buck is really overpowered is on Timber Mill and Frog Isle, due to the sizes/layouts of the map but that's the maps fault not the champions.

HerrHanzi
11-22-2016, 08:31 AM
See, Hi-Rez, what happens when you randomly nerf a Front Line, making he have less health than a Flanker? Everyone loses their minds!

Letus
11-22-2016, 03:23 PM
I'm beggining to think that people are more on the fact that Buck's fights are rather extended, saying he has the second slowest rate of fire (and even slower when it comes to reload interruption if cards aren't played right) than the other Flankers with the slowest damage output per shot if every pellet hits. 540 per .9 seconds.

To put into perspective...again
Skye can do 2250 in 1.5 seconds
Androxus can do 3720 in 3 seconds--or 1860 in that Skye 1.5
Evie can do 5580 total (I don't know her Rate of Fire, but that's a full clip no bonus there)
Buck can do 3240 in 5.4 seconds...or 1080 in 1.8 seconds...if all pellets hit....IF all pellets HIT (I hate my essential tremors, but Buck is fun to play)

Now, Buck can do a great combo of Heroic Leap + Net Shot + Bonus Shot which would be 1202 in rapid time + another shot of 540 = 1742 in 1.8 seconds.... If you're really lucky and get perfect timing, you could do 1904 with two bonus shots from one net shot with the heroic leap in that 1.8 seconds. (I only had that luck happen for me twice so far.)

Basically, pending on skill, anyone unfortunate to get Bucked is going to be in an Extended fight against said Buck. So what I'm guessing is people who scream against Buck...are just upset at the fact that they watch him slowly Buck them to death...where as the other Flankers, if played well, will kill you before you even notice. Buck on the other hand...you notice.

----


Does anybody remember when Net Shot did Cripple

And his current ult not only insta-filling his health, but reducing his cooldowns instantly and giving them a 50% cooldown rate?

ThatOthell159
11-22-2016, 08:54 PM
https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/paladins.gamepedia.com/thumb/6/64/Card_Cauterize.png/90px-Card_Cauterize.png?version=dc5d1430f1012fbc2820847 2b37b4a3b

https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/paladins.gamepedia.com/thumb/6/64/Card_Cauterize.png/90px-Card_Cauterize.png?version=dc5d1430f1012fbc2820847 2b37b4a3bhttps://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/paladins.gamepedia.com/thumb/6/64/Card_Cauterize.png/90px-Card_Cauterize.png?version=dc5d1430f1012fbc2820847 2b37b4a3bhttps://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/paladins.gamepedia.com/thumb/6/64/Card_Cauterize.png/90px-Card_Cauterize.png?version=dc5d1430f1012fbc2820847 2b37b4a3bhttps://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/paladins.gamepedia.com/thumb/6/64/Card_Cauterize.png/90px-Card_Cauterize.png?version=dc5d1430f1012fbc2820847 2b37b4a3bhttps://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/paladins.gamepedia.com/thumb/6/64/Card_Cauterize.png/90px-Card_Cauterize.png?version=dc5d1430f1012fbc2820847 2b37b4a3bhttps://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/paladins.gamepedia.com/thumb/6/64/Card_Cauterize.png/90px-Card_Cauterize.png?version=dc5d1430f1012fbc2820847 2b37b4a3bhttps://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/paladins.gamepedia.com/thumb/6/64/Card_Cauterize.png/90px-Card_Cauterize.png?version=dc5d1430f1012fbc2820847 2b37b4a3bhttps://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/paladins.gamepedia.com/thumb/6/64/Card_Cauterize.png/90px-Card_Cauterize.png?version=dc5d1430f1012fbc2820847 2b37b4a3bhttps://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/paladins.gamepedia.com/thumb/6/64/Card_Cauterize.png/90px-Card_Cauterize.png?version=dc5d1430f1012fbc2820847 2b37b4a3bhttps://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/paladins.gamepedia.com/thumb/6/64/Card_Cauterize.png/90px-Card_Cauterize.png?version=dc5d1430f1012fbc2820847 2b37b4a3bhttps://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/paladins.gamepedia.com/thumb/6/64/Card_Cauterize.png/90px-Card_Cauterize.png?version=dc5d1430f1012fbc2820847 2b37b4a3bhttps://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/paladins.gamepedia.com/thumb/6/64/Card_Cauterize.png/90px-Card_Cauterize.png?version=dc5d1430f1012fbc2820847 2b37b4a3bhttps://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/paladins.gamepedia.com/thumb/6/64/Card_Cauterize.png/90px-Card_Cauterize.png?version=dc5d1430f1012fbc2820847 2b37b4a3bhttps://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/paladins.gamepedia.com/thumb/6/64/Card_Cauterize.png/90px-Card_Cauterize.png?version=dc5d1430f1012fbc2820847 2b37b4a3b

This sums it up.

ABucket
12-02-2016, 10:01 AM
I'm beggining to think that people are more on the fact that Buck's fights are rather extended, saying he has the second slowest rate of fire (and even slower when it comes to reload interruption if cards aren't played right) than the other Flankers with the slowest damage output per shot if every pellet hits. 540 per .9 seconds.

To put into perspective...again
Skye can do 2250 in 1.5 seconds
Androxus can do 3720 in 3 seconds--or 1860 in that Skye 1.5
Evie can do 5580 total (I don't know her Rate of Fire, but that's a full clip no bonus there)
Buck can do 3240 in 5.4 seconds...or 1080 in 1.8 seconds...if all pellets hit....IF all pellets HIT (I hate my essential tremors, but Buck is fun to play)

Now, Buck can do a great combo of Heroic Leap + Net Shot + Bonus Shot which would be 1202 in rapid time + another shot of 540 = 1742 in 1.8 seconds.... If you're really lucky and get perfect timing, you could do 1904 with two bonus shots from one net shot with the heroic leap in that 1.8 seconds. (I only had that luck happen for me twice so far.)

Basically, pending on skill, anyone unfortunate to get Bucked is going to be in an Extended fight against said Buck. So what I'm guessing is people who scream against Buck...are just upset at the fact that they watch him slowly Buck them to death...where as the other Flankers, if played well, will kill you before you even notice. Buck on the other hand...you notice.
EXACTLY
Also, because my aim is pretty bad, I find Buck hard to play as :/

tuckingwhatm8
12-02-2016, 10:12 AM
lol whats next evie is op? babyrage my oponnent outplayed me by using his abilities in right moment

PTLagger
12-02-2016, 10:47 AM
Unless Damage main players understand strategy for counter, don't always stand alone & become a sitting ducks, they will get rekted by a Flanker all the time and then come here to call for nerf all Flank champs

HyouRetsuzan
12-02-2016, 01:00 PM
guess what tho, ob39 buck and evie nerf, those damage main player will laugh as long as they want since they can roam freely uncontested anymore

PTLagger
12-02-2016, 02:05 PM
guess what tho, ob39 buck and evie nerf, those damage main player will laugh as long as they want since they can roam freely uncontested anymore

Dude I see many people still screaming for more nerf to Flanker after Hirez read the balance list on OB39 Patch Stream because they can't win in 1v1 fight with Flanker LOL. They want more nerf to make sure Damage can solokill Flanker alone :D

ProfDrMahler
12-02-2016, 03:58 PM
I see you are main Viktor, and Buck is a HARD COUNTER to Viktor. Simple ways to counter Buck are stacking with your team and buy Cauterize. With this strategy Buck can't do anything harm to your team, yes he CAN'T do anything. I play Buck & I usually lose when against a well-stacked team.

then you played buck wrong.
always rush in the enemys like a maniac you are if they stay grp you make all 350 dmg + 1 550 dmg and then you died :D
thats how i got 21 from the top100
#dont take that srsly... maybe

Muminette
12-02-2016, 04:39 PM
Sigh, another nerf thread. There are so many of them these days. Nerf Skye. Nerf Viktor. Nerf Buck. Nerf Bomb King. Nerf Drogoz. Nerf Evie. Nerf Cassie. Plus few bonus actual nerfs from Hi-Rez that noone was asking for (Barik, Fernando T.T). You know what? I have an idea: let's nerf everything and everyone to the ground so the only thing we could do is CONGA! HELL YEAH! CONGA FOREVER!

Oh, wait... That's the wrong game...

Emoting with VGS forever? Um...

PTLagger
12-03-2016, 02:14 AM
then you played buck wrong.
always rush in the enemys like a maniac you are if they stay grp you make all 350 dmg + 1 550 dmg and then you died :D
thats how i got 21 from the top100
#dont take that srsly... maybe

That was my fault when I was a newbie to play Buck, jumped to a grouped enemy and think Buck is a Tank then get rekted in 2sec lol. Got many experienced from that training time to make my Buck grow to lv19 today

Haderach
12-05-2016, 10:36 AM
Just stop buying agression and you will be fine.

Tsuraika
12-05-2016, 01:22 PM
Personally I feel evie and andro are much better then buck right now.

ThatOthell159
12-05-2016, 09:20 PM
Personally I feel evie and andro are much better then buck right now.

They are in basically every way.

Kodykintae
12-11-2016, 06:35 PM
please for the love of god

ChavacoDoPaulo
12-11-2016, 07:09 PM
Sigh...
Well...I sayd it in another post just a few minutes ago... so I'll just copy and paste it.

He's a flanker, kill the damage champions is basically what he's suppose to do. Kinessa, Viktor and BK are great targets for him at a close range, there's nothing wrong with it.

About his health and self-healing ability, this is suppose to compensate for his low damage output, since he's waay behind the other flankers when it comes to actual damage.

Another thing to justify his high survivability is that even thoug so much people complain bout it, the heroic leap is the worst mobility ability among all flankers, and now it can't even be used as an engage move.

BJBrechas
12-11-2016, 07:48 PM
Do you want to kill buck buy cauterize on first, & stop buying useless items like agresion... Hope someday they will boost agresion...