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View Full Version : Let's talk about WRECKER



ChavacoDoPaulo
11-15-2016, 06:54 PM
Okay, as a main Fernando, I want to give my point of view about the new wrecker buff.
I get why all de nerfs on Fernando in the last few patches, and I understand that you wanted Fernando's players to stand at the objective and play his role instead of chasing kills, but this new wrecker has gone too far!
With lower damage and mobility, since Charge CD and Fire Ball were nerfed, his kill combo no longer works as it used to, and he need to stand more on the objective. Now Fernando is ready to stand in front of his teammates and save the day putting up his shield and... The whole enemy team are using wrecker, just waiting the shield appear to destroy it!
I could deal with the CD and damage nerfs, but by making his shield so easily breakable you are pratically making not just Fernando, but all the front liners useless (except Ruckus, because, well... he's a tank as much as Pip is a healer... btw, you gotta work on Pip too). Every tank that NEEDS his shields to play their roles are now easy targets surrounded by Drogoz, Bomb King, and the newcomer Sha Lin.
If the goal is to make sure is easily to bring Fernando down, cut his ridiculously high HP, this way at least the others FL wouldn't be so affected. Want another ballancement idea that would REALLY work unlike your last one? ( hold yourself, this one is really crazy) MAKE THE OTHER TANKS AS GOOD AS FERNANDO, yes, buff them all! The reason why Nando is a high pick is not because he's too good, is because the other front liners aren't as good as he is, simple like that.
I hope wrecker get a nerf, cause it needs one, and I also hope that from now on the balancing are intended to make what is bad become good, not what is good become bad.

EvieIV
11-15-2016, 07:04 PM
buff other frontliners? xD cause we aren't seeing 2 frontlines in every competitive game already, right?

ChavacoDoPaulo
11-15-2016, 07:13 PM
buff other frontliners? xD cause we aren't seeing 2 frontlines in every competitive game already, right?

That's exaclty the point, if one front liner were enough to suplly the team needs, then we could have more options to create the meta.

EvieIV
11-15-2016, 07:13 PM
if one frontliner would be able to stand on the point for so long you'd just wait for the loss if you happened to be against 4 frontliners

TheCheesemaster
11-15-2016, 07:16 PM
Personally I think it's pretty BS how one nando can hold off a whole team on the point for just enough time for their team to respawn and then rush back to the point....

MonsterElite1
11-15-2016, 07:18 PM
That's exaclty the point, if one front liner were enough to suplly the team needs, then we could have more options to create the meta.

I think that 1 frontliner is enough, BUT!!!! until they allow for full party in competitive people are going to over compensate with 2 frontliners. If there were 2 competitive game modes, a solo queue and a party queue you would see the meta's would be completely differen, why you ask??? communication.

Mjolnir1337
11-15-2016, 07:29 PM
That's exaclty the point, if one front liner were enough to suplly the team needs, then we could have more options to create the meta.

I think the issue with frontliners is the current game type is ALL about taking over a node and then pushing the cart. So it heavily favors tankier classes over weaker classes who rely more on flanking and cover. Most DPS classes or flank classes have a horrible kit and health pool for trying to stay anywhere near the cart.

Also, you have frontliners that can spit out ALOT of damage. I think thats ultimately the problem. The gametype forces players to get up in the front line - regardless of class/type - and thats where frontliners have a HUGE advantage.

If the game were "slayer" or even CTF or something, you wouldnt see as many issues as it would then HEAVILY favor the DPS classes or the "quicker" classes. But with ONE mode type - its all about being in ONE location so the tankier classes are more preferred.

However frontliners also complain because they feel rather helpless if put on a bad team They push a point and try and hold it, and have no power themselves if their team is bad. You cant "carry" as a tank, like you can with a good Androx or Cassie or even Buck... The only times I feel I can carry anyone on Barik or Fernando is when my opponants all take aggression instead of cauterize or wrecker and I just LOL all the way to a 30-0 K/D.

As a healer, your effectiveness depends on if your enemies take cauterize or not, or if you pick PIP or not. LOL.


IMO, I think tanks NEED to be able to hold nodes better but be given less damage. Then you wont see 2 or 3 tank teams because they cant kill anyone. Id love to see more "focus" be put into the damage mitigation abilities FOR allies:

Fernando - Shield
Barik - Barrier
Ruckus - Repulsor Field
Makoa - Shell Shield

These should be the focus areas of the tanks, each providing significant mitigation to their TEAM first. So.. What this likely means is a nerf to all primary damage which then makes the tanks able to hold nodes better solo, but removes some of their "teeth" in the ability for them to kill people - which is where DPS comes in.

Right now tanks can DPS so well AND they are 2x+ the tankiness of DPS classes AND in a mode that favors tankiness. So its no duh why people stack tanks.


Also, lets be honest. in a game with 5 players on each team and 4 class types... There is always going to be some "meta" of 2 classes.... Either DPS will be too good in clearing nodes, and everyone will pick them, or tanks will be too strong and people pick them, or healers too good, or flanks too good etc etc.

Its almost like they need to make it 4v4 LOL :)

ChavacoDoPaulo
11-15-2016, 07:43 PM
I fully agree, tanks are supposed to survive, but right now the developers are taking away this ability. You don't see the damage or flanks be nerfed often, in fact you almost don't see it! They keep nerfing tank and support characters over and over again, 'cause a Buck player don't
understand that they're not supposed to go alone against a tank that's been healed, and cry about it.

LookGooD
11-15-2016, 08:23 PM
I fully agree, tanks are supposed to survive, but right now the developers are taking away this ability.

Tanks are supposed to carry in almost every games except paladins. You cant see a tank deals more dmg than dmg champs in any other game. You cant play this games with only open your shield and win. It should be possible to win other team which without a tank too. Thats why wrecker buffed I guess and it was in place.

ProfessorFart
11-15-2016, 09:46 PM
I do agree that the buff to wrecker was uncalled for as already the damage bonus was obscenely high. When you think about it, each of the shields other than Ruckus's were more or less designed to protect allies by absorbing incoming fire from multiple sources especially thanks to the large shield hit box. A champion or two should not be able to consistently melt shields at the rate it would otherwise take an entire team to do unless they are specifically designed to do so.

However, the irony about making wrecker ridiculously powerful is shields aren't the main reason frontlines are picked and whether or not this item invoked these play styles is still up for debate, I'm fairly certain that these play styles will have little to no fall off no matter how much Wrecker is buffed. If anything, making Wrecker more powerful would probably incentivize these playstyles because I've noticed that shields more often than not are used in the point of an emergency rather than for the sake of making a push.

Fernando: Backline harasser/Flanker - Fairly high unnatural mobility and large health pool helps in maintaining an aggressive presence which often weakens or forces players to back off.

Makoa: Anchor Displacement - Can single out key targets for a quick pick or to disrupt the opposing team's formation.
(Honorable mention to Barrier Reef since it's cooldown bonus procs based on shield damage taken) Out of all the available abilities that displace champions from their current position, Dredge Anchor is the most consistent as the end always ends up in front of Makoa.

Barik: Turrets - This loadout combined with enough outside healing gives Barik an incredible amount of combat sustain that far exceeds that of barricade usage. However, this build can be countered by either bulldozer (vs turrets) or cauterize (vs healing).

Ruckus: Unfortunately I can't really say anything about him because I haven't seen him getting picked enough in the meta. Officially he's the offensive off-tank and due to his team protection being damage reduction while having a relatively poor shield, he is least affected by Wrecker in comparison to the other frontlines.

The issue with how powerful wrecker is that the investment to payoff in shield based builds often pales in comparison to non-shield loadouts which consequently puts a much greater focus on the other abilities, possibly too much for that matter.

Brodeo
11-16-2016, 05:33 AM
Lol Ruckus is least affected by Wrecker? His self-shield ability is an overshield, whick means the same bullet/rocket/arrow that breaks his shield also damages his health. And with the Wrecker buff, players doing insane amounts of damage to shields, meaning Ruckus's overshield could actually be hurting him more than it helps him if the other team knows what they are doing

Razzoriel
11-16-2016, 07:48 AM
There needs to have a counter to Wrecker, same as Haven/Blast Shields.

I won't mind having an item that decreases damage shields take from direct attacks/AoE attacks by 15-30-45%. But the problem is that not every class has shields. So then there is the alternative of giving each Tank class some sort of upgradeable card to their shields, which already exists in increasing the shield's HP (Barik has Bunker, Fernando has Towering Barrier, Makoa has Carapace. Only Ruckus does not have a card like that).

Barricade has 5k HP, so Bunker increases its HP up to 20%. Fernando's shield has 8k HP, so Towering Barrier increases the shield's HP up to 12%. Makoa's shield has 6k HP, so increases its HP up to ~17%. For comparison, Ruckus' Emitter has 3k HP.

The Wrecker buff made shields less useful, but they're still quite powerful. I'd personally would like to see assorted cards with tanks that reduce the damage dealt to their shields (so, for instance, Makoa's shield has a card which reduces damage dealt by area-of-effect weapons by 10-20-30-40%; in this regard, for example, Bomb King, who melts shields quite easily, would deal 810-540 damage per bomb, and with lv 4 cards, would negate Wrecker 1, make Wrecker 2 go from 150% extra damage to 50% extra damage, and Wrecker 3 from +225% to ~+90%.)

Obviously, the card would only work with either area-of-effect or direct damage; if both are to be considered, then half the bonus would work fine. I'd also be quite interested to see card effects on shields being destroyed by players.

Razzoriel
11-16-2016, 07:52 AM
Lol Ruckus is least affected by Wrecker? His self-shield ability is an overshield, whick means the same bullet/rocket/arrow that breaks his shield also damages his health. And with the Wrecker buff, players doing insane amounts of damage to shields, meaning Ruckus's overshield could actually be hurting him more than it helps him if the other team knows what they are doing
Repulsor Field works as 50% damage dampener for both Ruckus and his team. It has a 10s cooldown, the shortest out of all shield abilities, works for 2s and can be upgraded for radius. It has no relationship with any other effect and cannot be cancelled; so it essentially means 50% damage reduction for all champions near the objective.

Emitter has a very low CD (lowest of all shields in the game) and will theorically work more times against non-Wrecker targets because you'll just use it more than the other tanks.

Yes, Wrecker affects Ruckus the least.

Brodeo
11-16-2016, 09:23 AM
Repulsor Field works as 50% damage dampener for both Ruckus and his team. It has a 10s cooldown, the shortest out of all shield abilities, works for 2s and can be upgraded for radius. It has no relationship with any other effect and cannot be cancelled; so it essentially means 50% damage reduction for all champions near the objective.

Emitter has a very low CD (lowest of all shields in the game) and will theorically work more times against non-Wrecker targets because you'll just use it more than the other tanks.

Yes, Wrecker affects Ruckus the least.

If the game is going well, sure, he can use repulsor field. And he can keep his teammates alive during that push, too. That's his team-helping shield and it doesn't have to worry about Wrecker.

But his Emitter ability is the only one available to him whenever he needs it. He can help his team push back to the objective, but he'll die quickly with no mobility and no shields. If his team is off the obj, he has his machine guns, a double boost, and a shield which will get him killed against a high-burst Wrecker-using enemy. Sha Lin with Wrecker III will be doing ~3k DMG to shields with a single shot. If Ruckus has a half shield left, he's going to lose the shield and still take more damage from Sha Lin's single shot than we would have taken from Sha Lin without putting his shield up first.

Razzoriel
11-16-2016, 09:30 AM
If the game is going well, sure, he can use repulsor field. And he can keep his teammates alive during that push, too. That's his team-helping shield and it doesn't have to worry about Wrecker.

But his Emitter ability is the only one available to him whenever he needs it. He can help his team push back to the objective, but he'll die quickly with no mobility and no shields. If his team is off the obj, he has his machine guns, a double boost, and a shield which will get him killed against a high-burst Wrecker-using enemy. Sha Lin with Wrecker III will be doing ~3k DMG to shields with a single shot. If Ruckus has a half shield left, he's going to lose the shield and still take more damage from Sha Lin's single shot than we would have taken from Sha Lin without putting his shield up first.

Wrecker III needs 1.8k credits. If Sha Lin bought Wrecker III, Ruckus could as well buy Haven III, which greatly reduces Sha Lin's burst damage and stacks with Repulsor Field. Tanks are not supposed to be scrapping outside the objective anyway; Ruckus makes it so objective captures/defenses are easier, and no other tank has such a powerful damage denial tool at their service. One could argue Ruckus could have the Repulsor field only affect himself if he is not at the objective, and IMO it would put him together with the other three tanks in usefulness and remove his below-average status. But Wrecker undeniably has less of an effect on Ruckus than any other tank, exactly because he doesn't rely on his shield to be effective as a teamplayer.

Plus, you're also underestimating the fact Ruckus himself getting Wrecker melts shields. So one could say his tank anti-tank role boosts Ruckus, which leads me to the conclusion:

No other tank was benefitted more than Ruckus with the recent buff to Wrecker. He not only gets the most out of it if he takes it himself, but also is the least out of the four tanks which relies on shields to survive.

So yea, I was wrong. He was the most affected by the Wrecker changes. But in a positive, not negative way.